Dungeon Crawler Carl And The Apocalypse Game Show

Civilization doesn’t fade out. It collapses at 2 AM. Anything with a roof becomes a death trap, and the only “safe” option is a doorway into a world dungeon run by aliens who package human survival as binge-worthy reality TV. We’re unpacking Dungeon Crawler Carl (Book 1, Floors 1 and 2) and why it lands as both laugh-out-loud comedy and genuinely unsettling post-apocalyptic sci-fi.

We talk through Carl’s impossible starting conditions, the tutorial vibes that feel like a video game you can’t pause, and the moment the series fully clicks: Princess Donut becomes sentient and instantly starts working the crowd like a born celebrity. From there, we dig into the AI’s achievement system, the creepy humor, and the way the book turns “loot and levels” into a weaponized incentive structure. If you’ve been looking for a LitRPG recommendation or wondering whether the Dungeon Crawler Carl audiobook is worth it, we also get into what Jeff Hays brings to the narration and why the fandom treats it like the definitive version.

The conversation gets real when we debate moral survival choices, including Frank and Maggie and the “kill or be killed” paranoia that the dungeon actively encourages. We also sit with the Hoarder scene and what it says about exploitation, audience complicity, and why Carl’s anger feels like the beginning of a rebellion. Finally, we geek out over Carl’s strategy and game-exploit thinking, plus standout supporting characters like Mordecai, Zev, and Odette.

If you’re enjoying the show, subscribe, share this with a friend who loves dystopian fiction and game mechanics, and leave us a five-star review so more crawlers can find us.

Twitter handles:
Project Geekology: https://twitter.com/pgeekology
Anthony's Twitter: https://twitter.com/odysseyswow
Dakota's Twitter: https://twitter.com/geekritique_dak

Instagram:
https://instagram.com/projectgeekology?igshid=1v0sits7ipq9y

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@projectgeekology

Geekritique (Dakota):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBwciIqOoHwIx_uXtYTSEbA

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hello, crawlers! Welcome to Project Ecology episode 167. Congratulations! Against all odds, you've survived the collapse of civilization, entered the world dungeon, and somehow convinced yourselves that reviewing Dungeon Crawler Carl was a good idea. Today our hosts will be discussing the first two floors of this exciting new adventure. Expect goblins, expect explosions, expect one extremely angry former Coast Guardsman and a cat who is already convinced she's the most important person in the universe. Viewer discretion is advised. Viewer enjoyment is mandatory. Good luck, crawlers! Now get out there and kill, kill, kill. My name is Cascadia. I mean Dakota. I got ahead of myself there for a second. Uh yeah, my name's Dakota. I'm one fourth of the host for the Project's Geekology podcast, and I am joined as always with Anthony.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

And you know, good job, Jeff. I mean, Dakota. Yeah, we are doing book one of Dungeon Crawler Carl. And um I I'm excited to hop into that, but you know that Dakota and I can't do it alone. I'm gonna throw it over to another one of our hosts.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Rich, just out here pushing my cart around, not knowing what's going on. Or maybe I know more than I let on. But we can't do it alone. We're rounding out this quartet with Dam Jen, Dakota's wife.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Didn't know his voice could sound like that. Slightly unsettled.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Did I do it? We actually did good. Yeah. What do you think, Ed?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, that that that was that was crazy. Uh uh, you know, I was about to see if we could tag Jeff into that.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

Oh man. I love that character so much. She has uh surprising amount of growth throughout the series. Or growth is growth is an interesting term. Anyway, I have read the Dungeon Crawler Carl series up through most of book seven. Um I'm almost done with book seven, and then book eight is the most recent to date. And I've been talking about it for a couple weeks on this show just because I'm enjoying the heck out of it. It's just one crazy adventure after another. Each floor is completely different once you get past the first book, and as such, the stories get completely different. But I was really excited to finally get my co-host to uh read and or listen to the book, the first book, Dungeon Crawler Carl. And I'm I'm so excited to hear what you guys have to say, your theories, all that good stuff. I will say that Dungeon Crawler Carl is a tongue twister. It takes a while before you can say that quickly. And we will probably trip up a little bit. So apologies. But yeah, what have we been up to this past week, guys? Uh let's start with Jen. Everyone loves starting with Jen.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I don't like starting with Jen because I forget what I did during the week. I mean, I listened to Dungeon Crawler Carl. Is that not enough? No, that's enough. How do you guys consume so much media?

SPEAKER_04 3:10

I I will say that reading a book.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

I was creating a person.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

Yeah, you got a baby in you, you're almost fully baked. That's what I've been up to. Very nice, very nice. And yes, I think for most of us, this is probably the biggest thing that we've consumed media-wise this past week. So it's okay. Yeah, reading a book is a lot more involved than just watching a TV show or whatever. Kudos to Udos.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

Anthony?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah, uh, we went through that first book. It definitely and it's not like in a bad way that it's like time consuming, but you know, you do have to I don't know for for me when it comes to listening to something like that, I can't I don't know how people do like a bunch of other stuff while they're like listening to uh like audiobooks or like something important because like I feel like I would be missing out on a lot of stuff. That's why like I'll only put on stuff that I know that I've like that I've heard or I've seen like while I'm doing like um chores around the house. But when it comes to stuff like uh like this or like you know watching one piece, like I have to be locked in. Like I can't be doing the other stuff because before you know it, like um especially like the audiobook, like the uh what is it, the narrator said like you know, fifty things, and you're like, wait, what was it that he just said? And then you have to go back again. And I I just don't I prefer not to do that. So yeah, I I kind of lock in with that. I watched this TV series, it's uh based off of a Stephen King book. It's called The Institute. So I watched like the I think they're coming out with the second season, but I think that the whole season like covered the book. So I guess they're trying to expand on that world. But yeah, I watched uh it was eight episodes. I I pulled a rich and like I watched the whole thing yesterday. Um I actually like hardly ever do that. But yeah, no, like that that's Did you enjoy it at least? Yeah, yeah, it was really good. Yeah, it was insane.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Where was it streaming or being?

SPEAKER_02 5:15

I uh so it's on MGM Plus, but I I did like one of those you know how Amazon you could like subscribe to some of their stuff for like a week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For yeah, a trial for a week. So I I'm pretty much doing that. And so yeah, like I I watched all that. This week I actually I think it was as of recording. Today is Thursday um Supergirl dropped today, right? Or tonight?

SPEAKER_04 5:40

I think it's in I think it's in theaters today, yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Yeah. So but I think the official release day is tomorrow. But I'd like uh I want to see that this weekend if I can.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

Nice. What about you, Rich? What are you been up to?

SPEAKER_03 5:55

I can't remember if I told you guys this last week. I finished some pronos again. Just kind of ran through it, just love doing that, kind of focusing on a new character as I go through it and kind of trying to pick up on things they've done a little bit more. And then I uh let's see, I'm a day away from Lego Batman, the new comprehensive game finally arriving. I'm getting the deluxe edition. I am beyond thrilled. I just love the Lego games. Uh Charlie's gonna go away for 12 days this summer, my man. Like, that's listen, ladies and gents, that's it's 12 days of no responsibilities.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Charlie Charlie is his son. Oh, yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Uh you guys should pay attention on the show, so uh you know that kind of stuff. I don't understand. Dakota shouldn't have to tell you that. I don't care.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

There's a high probability this is their first episode, especially because Dungeon Crawler.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

Well then welcome. I'm sorry. I'm so rude. Welcome everyone. How are you guys doing? Uh no. Uh the then uh you know I so differently for me, obviously. So I actually do almost every single thing in my life with 95 things going on at the same time. So actually, this was kind of cool because whatever you forced me to read, which I just like I tend to binge read. So I basically did three sessions of like three hours and like knocked the book out. Like that's how I I kind of went through it. It was I was kind of putting down like 120 something pages like every read. I do not want to do the audiobook. I will never do the audiobook, but I'll discuss that a little later just to wrap up. I'm I'm having a World Cup fever, just uh switching jerseys every day, because I uh I hedge my bets and I got a couple different countries on in my closet just in case. But uh having a good time watching it, uh not having a good time uh as a season ticket holder of the New York Mets. For those of you guys who don't uh listen, and this is your first time. I comically bought season tickets for the first time in 43 years, and this is the worst the team has ever been in my lifetime, I think, at this point in the year. So uh the joke's on me, but that's it. And I'm gonna pass it all the way back to you, Dakota. What are you been up to saying?

SPEAKER_04 8:03

That just means that season tickets are gonna be cheaper next year. So who's really winning? That's not how that works. Not me, buddy. Um yeah, I haven't been up to too much. I I've been really busy with work and getting the house prepared for our own child, Jen and I's child. That was a weird sound.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

The breeze way.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

But uh I am very I'm deep into book seven of Dungeon Crawler Carl, and like if you guys ever make it that far, holy cow. It is a different world. It is like I I can't even describe it, but like the character changes that happen over the course of these seven books, not just to Carl and Dona, but like all the side characters that you meet along the way, you just start really loving these individuals, and like they get they get sent through the ringer all the time. And yeah, the what's happening right now, I really have no idea how they're gonna get out of it. And that's that's the best part about the series. You have no idea what Matt Dinner, the writer, is gonna how he is going to dungeon master his way with these characters through the dungeon. And I think that's uh fair way to segue into our discussion.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

What floor are are you on in seven?

SPEAKER_04 9:20

Uh book book seven is floor nine.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

Yeah, book seven isn't. Isn't that the farthest anybody goes? The furthest anyone has ever been in the dungeon.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Wait, wait, is level 13, buddy. And it was a guy and he died.

SPEAKER_04 9:34

Yeah, he only lasted a cut like uh 30 minutes or so on the 13th floor.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Oh, so Carl's made it. Is this a spoiler?

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Points for Rich, two demerits for Jen.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

Is it a spoiler that Carl's made it to floor nine?

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

It's his series, like he's the one writing it. Like you would hope that he would make it all the way to 18.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

That's what you thought about Ned Stark.

SPEAKER_04 9:54

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

You thought Ned Stark was gonna be in the show the whole time, buddy.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

It would be strange if Game of Thrones was in first person, like Ned Stark, throughout the entire narration, and then he's just like, and then my head fell off. Let's see what my kids are up to.

SPEAKER_05 10:12

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 10:13

Oh man. Anyway, so the dungeon. A little background before we begin. The world collapses. I think the book calls it the transformation or something like that. Where at a certain point around two in the morning, on a very cold January in Seattle, the whole well, the whole it's not just Seattle, but our story takes place in Seattle in the beginning. Um, the whole world, every covered structure collapses. According to Carl, it's literally everything. If you're in a car, that collapses. If you're in a building or under some canopy, that collapses on you, you're done. You're done.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

What if you're outside but you're standing under a tree?

SPEAKER_04 10:55

The trees, I think, don't collapse. From my understanding, there are trees still existent in uh on the overworld. Or the surface, rather, is what they call it. But yeah, so then you either have the opportunity to stay on the surface and try to fend for yourself, even though all governments have now collapsed, basically, and there's no immediate hope for you, or you can make your way through the dungeon. And about 13 million people enter the dungeon around the world, and Carl and his ex-girlfriend's cat, donut, decide they're gonna go down. And yeah, let's start the discussion there. As far as a premise goes, Jen, what are your thoughts on the introduction to this? Is it stressful? Is it kind of comical? Somewhere in between.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

I personally don't usually like dystopian books, which is why Dakota was trying to get me to read this for quite some time, and basically the only reason why I did it was like for the podcast, right? I wasn't, I don't know, I just I don't like extra stress in my life, and I was like, ah, I don't really need this. But then pretty early on in the story, you can see that even though it is stressful, it is really funny. Like the idea of, you know, I I go out into the yard all the time in pretty unfortunate outfits to like see my dog, like my neighbors see me in different kinds of robes and slippers and crocs. And if I had to like survive in one of like now, I think when I leave the house, it's like, could I survive in this? You know, because especially if you have pets, sometimes you just go out really fast and you're not wearing the most logical outfit. You're really not. Um but I thought it was a humorous start, which led to me getting more into it and kind of I feel like a lot of times with like dystopian books, they start off, you know, with this like tragedy and everybody was crying and all of this. It was just it was kind of funny. After we are can I go into like after he enters the dungeon? Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead. After he enters the dungeon, that's the part that I wasn't a huge fan of right away. I'm the type of person when I play video games, I just kind of skip the the instructions a lot.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

She skips the tutorials and then she's mad that she doesn't understand the controls.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

I'm a logical being. And um, yeah, no, that's literally. I'm like, I am a bit like Princess Donut and I really am starting to see it. I'm like, ah, this isn't important, this is boring, I just want to play the game, and I skip like a bunch of the tutorial. So to have to like listen to a book tutorial for what felt like a really long time, the beginning was a bit frustrating for me.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

I think that is important for the story though, because the characters need to know what they're doing or what their goal is immediately and in like the near future. So I did not have an issue with that. What about you guys? Uh Anthony, did you particularly latch on to the introduction to the series, their entry into the dungeon? What did you think of Carl and Donut from the offset?

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Yeah, like I I I think I would say that I latched on pretty early. I kind of understand where Jen is coming from, but like as a gamer that's played a lot of games, I'm the kind of person that I'm like, ah, cause sometimes they draw the tutorial is drawn out too much. But I mean in this case, I don't think that it was drawn out. I think it was like pretty to the point. And the thing that was thrown into the mix is that like when you're playing a video game, like you know you're playing a video game, whereas like Carl's like, what is going on? Like, why is this happening? You know, like it the world literally just ended and now he has to like dungeon crawl like he's in Diablo. I understand it, but I I do like it. I am into like the dystopian stuff, just because especially you know, I like post-apocalyptic stuff. I'm I'm a Fallout fan. Um, so this is interesting because it is post-apocalyptic, but not in the same way that a lot of these others are, like, you know, I am legend or or like Fallout or War of the Worlds. This is like it it's aliens, and it's they're making you pretty much do a reality TV show Dungeon Crawl. So I thought that was pretty neat.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

Rich, what do you think about the inherent disadvantage that Carl is given as he enters the dungeon with uh his companion as well as his attire?

SPEAKER_03 15:36

So I have I think like talking about this book will work out a lot of my issues. I really like it, and but that makes me suspicious. Okay, so like let me explain. Like Ready Player 1, right? I love Ready Player 1, right? Like, but I also in there's a part of me that also was like it's so ridiculously catering to a very specific audience, right? Like, alright, like this book makes references to the A team, it makes references to Knight Rider, right? Like he walks in like in this ridiculous humorous way, and it's absurd, you know, and it's um a little crass, you know. Um it kind of reminds me a little bit of Outer Worlds. I don't know if you guys ever played that series. I love those uh Outer Worlds 1 and Outer Worlds 2. I played them on PS5, and it's like you're going to different planets and you're basically there's all these corporations in the universe, and it it's very crass and ridiculous and absurd. It's just so absurd. You kind of don't even know what's happening uh as you're playing it. You kind of just gotta go along with it, and that it felt a lot like that. Uh so the beginning is good, it hooks you in, you know, but I I don't know why. Like for a little bit I almost kept myself at a safe distance from like falling head over heels because I just kept going like this like this is something you're supposed to like, Rich, and that always makes me a little suspicious. There's so much of it that I like that it's almost it's baffling to me, you know. It's like it's too good to be true. Or am I like am I that much of a sad, like easy formula to come like to whip up in like a whoop whoop whoop, here you go, video game stuff. Here's some uh references to 80s TV shows, uh, you know, like it's just I don't know. It's weird. I like it and like the beginning, but I kept look, he's you know, he's kind of a sad sack. He got dumped, but he's still taking care of his girlfriend's cat, right? Like a lot of gamer dudes who spend a lot of time watching uh 80s sitcoms in their houses and not going out, uh, I think could be like, ah, I could see myself getting dumped, you know, like and being out there, you know, taking care of this dumb cat that I don't like, you know. Like I immediately was like, yeah, that sounds like that could be me, you know, like that could have been uh you know something that happened in my past. And I uh like Jen said, I I walk out in ridiculous, like really ridiculous stuff, you know, like you don't walk out, like you walk to work in those outfits.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

That's the jarring part.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Well, if I'm saying that what I wear to work is not the most ridiculous, then let's just be clear. Uh I'm talking like I used to put like Charlie's Crocs on when like they barely like that my foot really didn't go in. Like it was just like my toes, and I was just like tiptoe outside in the snow. Like literally, like when I read that he had like undersized Crocs in the snow, I'm like, okay, sign me up. Like that's I've done that. Uh in there. You know, the no pants thing. I I kind of uh you know, as as a man who doesn't like to wear pants, I like shorts. I usually do like some sort of cover, but I I I did appreciate that too. So yeah, I thought it was a good start.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

So I think his look, Carl's immediate, like, he's given a kind of like a crippling start in in terms of like he's got nothing. He even gets an achievement for bringing nothing into the into the dungeon.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

New achievement.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

I love I love uh the AI and the stupid achievements and like descriptions it gives things. It is so funny.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

The creepy one.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Oh my gosh, I know. I was listening to that part of my car and I was like, I'm so uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

R Rich and and this is to the this is like a case for the audiobook. But when they did when you you describe when the AI describes the description for like Carl using his feet for stuff, it gets so creepy. I mean, we're we're talking about like like stalker creeper like vibes.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Oh yeah, because it it does I mean it it's clear that there's a foot fetish kind of thing going on, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

But the way he says it, it's like I'm like I'm like, yo, this this thing is wild.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

The narrator, Jeff Hayes, is incredibly incredible. He has created so many characters that I could pick out of a lineup at this point.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

And he does he does the does he do all of them except for I mean obviously when Patrick Warburton comes in, but so occasionally Wait, did you say Patrick Warburton?

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

He just threw out a pit the first pitch of a Mets game on Monday. Sorry, that's just random. Oh he is an actor.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

It's kind of a big deal. Yeah. So occasionally they they throw in like um some sort of like one-off like voice actor or celebrity to like just voice like a single character that's usually only in it for like a chapter or whatever. Um and it's only happened like two or three times in the in the series, but Patrick Warburton had a a longer time he wasn't playing like a a lot like a a lot in the audiobook, but I think it's book six that he shows up intermittently. But um yeah, I'm excited for that. For those who don't know, Patrick Warburton is known for many things. Kronk.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Dauber.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Say that one more time.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

He was Dauber on the show Coach.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

Okay.

unknown 21:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

He's also the guy who if you've ever been to Epcot and you go onto the Soren Across the World ride, he's the flight attendant that that gives you the okay to fly, just like nice work, Bell. Nice work, Bell. It's the best. I love him. But anyway, back to Dungeon Crawler Carl. Donut takes a bite out of a enchanted pet biscuit. Something that Mordecai decides he she should really eat that now. And almost immediately, not directly immediately, she turns into a pile of goo on the floor, hairy goo, and then two minutes later she pops up with an aristocratic princess accent. And what are our thoughts on donut as a character? You can you can talk about donut like from the entire book at this point. Jen, thoughts on donut.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Honestly, what kind of question is that? I love Donut. It'd be hard to read this and not love.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Donut is is the character that just like I really love Carl, obviously, but I just like Dakota and I were driving in the car during the point where Carl tells the reader that Beatrice was planning on getting rid of Donut. And I like audibly gasped. I was just devastated. I love my cat. I love him so much. He's not loved by many, but he's absolutely adored by me. And just like the thought of him having like a voice, and cats are so proud and arrogant, and they're all the things that Donut embodies. And I love that this world loves Donut for being who she is. I also love like how much she wants to be adored and how much she panders to the audience.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

Well, she's a show cat, you know. She's a show cat. She's won many, many a purple ribbon in her time.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

I love the way that she tells Carl so many of the things Beatrice has been keeping from him. Subtly, yeah. She doesn't like think about it or something.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Right before a battle, she'll just say something like, Oh yeah, and this is what Beatrice would do if you were at the gym or whatever, and then Or like when they're waiting for like the other guests, she's like, Who do you think they are?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Is it Beatrice and her boyfriend? Like she does not care about how these things make her feel or make Carl feel.

SPEAKER_04 23:31

Who's Ferdinand?

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Who is Ferdinand?

SPEAKER_02 23:36

The thing that I like about this book is that it shows like how complicated like the world is and that the villains, the the quote unquote villains, at least like person, the crawler-wise, it's not black or black and white. It's um you know, it's kind of gray with uh Frank and Maggie. And like you kind of get to know about their story when they go onto that that show. And um, and I see and and this is where so I I like Donut a lot, but I do really like Carl a lot too, because Carl like literally is one of those people that will say what a lot of people want to say, and like the way like when he went on that show and like started just cussing that that workout, like come on, let's be real. Like, uh like when we when we got his attitude, like when Carl was like saying all that stuff, we're like, Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You tell him, Carl, you tell him.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Uh Rich, you seem to scoff when Anthony said that there were certain characters that were more gray than black and white, specifically in regards to Frank Q and Maggie.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Yeah, I don't think they're gray at all. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

She's you but you don't believe in that. You only believe in black or white.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

I mean you don't you don't believe in morally gray things. Well, I don't think killing your for me, I'm sorry. There there I'm gonna tell you I don't care if we find out in other books that there's like reasons and stuff. Listen to me. I'm never gonna kill my son. There's nothing that's ever going to make me strangle my son. There's never a reason. There's never gonna be a reason. And uh like three or fifty percent of this podcast will figure it out in like three weeks. Alright. So we'll revisit that topic about whether uh what's her name? Maggie Mai? Mary Maggie Mag? Magpie? Maggie Mai. Maggie Mai. Terrible. And her poor husband, just thinking about their marriage, and he just has a thousand years stare just on that show.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

Just thank you.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

I just for me, what I find unsettling about them is that okay, you were lied to and you were told that the way to survive is by killing other people. But like, I think if you had said the same thing to Carl, he wouldn't have done it. He seems to care so much, like, about the amount of human lives that are dwindling every day. Despite like the astronomical numbers. I mean, when we watch the news, you see bad stuff happening to people all the time, and it's very easy to get desensitized and not really care. And I could see a lot of people in the dungeon like disassociating from that number and not really thinking about those as actual people. But Carl like genuinely cares about every human that he interacts with. So I I mean I'm sh I'm sure like I'm sure their care like their their personalities will get kind of developed later, but just the idea of being told like okay, the only way for you to survive is to become a murderer. I well I would like to think Dakota's a really good person and he would say no.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

The thing is Me on the other hand. And the way the way that I see this is that obviously the tutorial guild masters are like all different, right? And Frank and Maggie were told this. You know, obviously obviously Carl was thinking that everybody got the same kind of like general tutorial that he did. Obviously, that's not the truth. So the way that I'm coming at it is that if I'm told this at a tutorial guild, that means that literally anybody that's coming up to me is probably gonna want to try to kill me. So I'm gonna go kill them first before they kill me. That's the way I see it. I'm gonna be real with you. I if I'm in a place that I don't know what it is, this is a new place, and they come in here and they'll be like, hey, you get you you like you the only being that you know is the that knows what's going on in this place says, look, it's kill or be killed, you're gonna be the one you're the other person's gonna be the one that's gonna die. Or I'm gonna be dead.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

I have to disagree. If somebody told me like if I was into the dungeon, they're like, you have to eat a poop hot dog or you die. Like I would just not eat it. I'd die. Like I'm fine with dying.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

There's literally that literally me that that like is not relevant at all.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Okay, but like what I'm saying is if I wouldn't eat something gross, I also wouldn't ever compromise my morals just so that I could live.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Like then you would just be able to do that. So then you would just live. You would definitely just stay on the floor. Like, I'm more with Anthony. Like, if I were in that position, I know I would be like Anthony, but I know if Dakota and I were together, Dakota would be like, hey, this is wrong. Yeah. Dakota's the morally. I would not do that. Dakota's the person who would talk me down. So I would be like like a villain.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

The way that I would go about it, like in reality, is that like I wouldn't go in like guns blazing. I would legit be like stealthy. I would probably, you know, I would obviously like pick m uh mobs off, but as soon as I start saw people going around, the um the defense is going up, and it's like, okay, if I see this person, it if anything seems off, and I kind of like where you know, in a way, you saw like how Carl kind of picked up how things were like a little off about how they were. Like, I mean you you can it's you can kind of read people's intentions, like if you really pay attention. If that were the case, if I saw like like obviously you see that Frank and Maggie, like they're trying to kill you. If I had the means to take them out, then they're gonna then I'm gonna either kill them or I'm gonna go I'm gonna die trying.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

I'm I'm sorry, but I do I do think that Carl makes that decision as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

He does, yeah. He does.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Yeah, he makes that trap decision that um which but the trap was after they had attacked him. I don't think that he he is clearly morally sent like morally he's got a code, you know.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

He ha he has a code.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

One thing that I thought was like telling but I mean you could always like say things in hindsight, but when when they were on the show and the like Glurp Gurp guy, I forgot his name. Maestro. Oh yeah, when Maestro like plays the videos of them interacting and killing the other crawlers, Carl said that all of the other humans that saw them like looked full like hopeful to s and like excited to see another person. And but I I see what Anthony's saying, because if you're like if you're feeling paranoid, you might not trust that. So I could see both sides, like obviously in hindsight, when you're watching behind the safety of a screen, Carl understands the rules better and actually has like it had positive interactions with human beings. We also don't know their jobs, but he did think they were some kind of police force.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

You guys also don't know the full story yet.

SPEAKER_05 30:50

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Yeah, and you can't tell us. I can't tell you, but it is pretty crazy. That's one thing that I'm I'm constantly amazed at. There's a lot of stuff in these books where I'm just like, there's no way he can write a good way around this. Or he set a certain thing up from this point of view that looks a certain way. There can't really be a good enough reason from this other person's point of view to do certain things, but he always proves me wrong. That's one of the there's a lot of strengths and a lot of weaknesses with Matt Dineman, and one of his strengths is just good old-fashioned storytelling and being able to um jump around between character motivations. It's not just a one-sided Carl keeps winning for seven, eight books straight, you know, like it's not that at all. And it's not that everybody has the same mindset or the same personality or the same goals as Carl and Donut. So that's one thing that is always being tested because just like a Dungeons and Dragons campaign, every character at the table wants to do something else, you know, or is is wants to do a certain thing a certain way, and it constantly foils his plans.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

But um I actually, and I'm glad that you said that because I kind of think that like so we do understand that Carl is has a pretty solid moral standing, but sometimes the system doesn't allow him to be moral, like the hoarder, right? He realized that the hoarder was obviously a person from his world, and he was like, There's nothing that he could have done except for like kill her, and he realized that.

SPEAKER_04 32:39

I think a certain point of it was you know, like, I gotta put this person out of their misery as fast as possible.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

There, yeah, and there there's that too. Bro.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

The gym bro?

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah, reading like so I I don't speak Spanish, as all of my co-workers know. But read like I I was kind of understanding what she was saying um when I was reading it, and there was like a couple but a couple of things I wasn't I was confused about. Like I thought she mentioned a relative, but I couldn't really fully understand. So then later reading the Spanish translation of what the hoarder was saying was absolutely heartbreaking. Yeah. And it just shows you like how I find that the AI just kind of lumps humanity into like redeemable characters and then people that it just thinks are like losers and has zero problems totally exploiting the people that it feels are losers.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

And I find it's so frustrating because it's like these are real people that are just mocked, mocked and brutally murdered for entertainment purposes. You could see it like why Carl is so angry and just like hates this cruel system so much.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah, I feel bad in that moment, yeah, because she was obviously like very scared. She thought she was in hell, which I mean as well be. Yeah, you can't. Yeah, I was like essentially, right? She was like throwing up these cockroach things. And uh yeah, like I mean, she just she said sorry if she was bad. And yeah, I felt I felt really bad. I'm like, oh no, this is this sucks.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

Yeah, and the part where she's like, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know what where I am, and like she can't control what she's that she's like fighting and everything. Yeah, it's it's uh it's a tough one.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

There's a number of encounters like that throughout the series that is difficult, but it almost kind of seems like a commentary on those types of shows that exploit people that society kind of looks down on, like the biggest loser or hoarders, or I don't know, just like any of those shows where it's like clearly super mentally ill people.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Duck Dynasty.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

And we're just like watching them for our own amusement and like laughing at the stuff that they say. Yeah. I don't know anything about Duck Dynasty.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

Pawn Stars.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Just naming shows. Deadliest catch. But it's like if if something happens to those people, you know, which like a lot of times being on the show doesn't at all help the their mental state, it's like, are we complicit by signing off on and watching these things? But it's like like the audience who is watching Carl are complicit in the deaths of all these people. It wouldn't happen if it weren't for the fact that they're watching.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

But it also it the story kind of preys on humanity's desire to see a victor. So, from like a game show point of view, it's it's extremely common for us to watch maybe not like us, but you know, for humans to watch a game show where you start out with 20 people and it gets whittled down to two and then one, and then the the one is the victor. You have stuff like Big Brother, Survivor, Love Islands, and there's tons of them that have existed over the years, and some go on for years and years and years. I think of Survivor and Big Brother, namely, as like two of the biggest that season after season they get a new cast of characters, and this is just another cast of characters for the Intergalactic TV series Dungeon Crawler World. And I find that both like a fascinating introspective look at like humans and their desire to be entertained at the at the expense of others, and yeah, it's kind of like a it's a criticism of our own entertainment industry? Industry, yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Do you think that this I always get the feeling when I read Ready Player One that it was like meant to be a movie but was a book first, like and um there's a comic that I really like, Kill Shakespeare, and I got to know the author, and um it's a graphic novel series, and uh they've made a couple of them, basically where Shakespeare's characters come back to life and they kind of fight amongst each other. And he kind of admit he admitted like they they were close to getting a pilot, and he had said that he originally kind of wrote it as a show, didn't get picked up anywhere, so then he turns it into a graphic novel. This feels like it's going to be so much better as a movie because you're gonna see like the pop-ups and you get I feel like the visualization and the fighting even and I'm I'm not gonna lie, like I have to admit this. When I read Star Wars stuff, I I go very quickly through the fight. Like I don't I'm not like the intricacies sometimes of like every s you know I'm like I'm reading, but I'm going like I'm ticking up speed, you know.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Like you want to get to the next story beat.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

Yeah, if I'm listening, uh if if I were listening, I'm probably going at two 1.5 easily, but maybe even two times at that point, at though those moments. But I I know it'll translate well on a screen. And like you know, I heard something about the show, like uh making it a show, and I think that it's gonna be great as a show. To me, this scream seasons, then there's an like as you're describing that the levels are gonna be completely different, kind of like the way you guys described White Lotus to me, like how it's different characters or something, or different, I don't know, different locations. Like I I feel like this gives me that energy. But I don't know what do you guys think? Do you guys think it was like originally meant to just be a book, or did this guy have aspirations to one day get it on the screen?

SPEAKER_04 38:31

That's a tough question to answer, because it could just be that he likes you know writing this kind of stuff, and that's just this is the the medium that he prefers. Matt Dinnerman got the idea of this series because he used to work at cat shows doing like drawings of cats.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Wait, really? Why didn't you know that?

SPEAKER_03 38:54

What's that like he's the court like that like the court artist? He's like the cat show artist.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

Yeah, he's a cat show artist. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

I love that he incorporated that into his book.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

He's like, these cats have personality.

SPEAKER_04 39:09

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

What if I just survive with one?

SPEAKER_04 39:12

Yeah. But yeah, I don't know that he that this was intent. Like, I think when you come up with an idea like this, there's always the possibility, you know, and you wanna it would be fun to visualize and like to cast uh your your group of characters for I think this book specifically would benefit from a movie andor a TV show because it follows two characters, but once you start getting like more party members and just characters that come in and out of the story, it's I think it can be pretty epic on screen. And I I was reading book seven and like somewhere near the beginning, and I thought if they ever get this far, this would be one of the craziest moments in sci-fi fantasy history on TV. It's just I know that sounds extremely hyperbolic for a book about a guy in underwear running around with his cat, but it's I I think what I would I was telling Jen this the other day, where I kind of realized that this series is basically the novel version, like a serialized novel version of the song Killing in the Name by Rage Against the Machine. And you guys don't really see the full picture of what I mean yet. Even though it sounds like, oh yeah, they're definitely raging against the AI, blah blah blah, they're raging against Borin. But you know, the the beginning of Killing in the Name, it starts with oh what's And now you do what they told you. Yeah, and now you do what they told you. And then it goes into like the second chorus, and now you do what they told you, and you're under control, and now you do what they told you, and now you're under control. And then by the time like the song climaxes, it gets to F you, I won't do what you tell me, and it's that's the part of the song that I'm in right now with book seven, and it's the most epic rebellion story I think I've ever experienced in any medium ever. Star Wars, I'm looking at you. Like it's it's that crazy of like a zero to hero for everybody kind of story, and I love that. Even but but it it all kind of it all revolves around Carl.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

And I can I give a side note really quick.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

You can yeah, I would love that.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Side note, I'm in my pregnancy era right now, not physically fit, but I will be so back when I'm hitting the Stare Master to that song. That is my Stare Master song. I sweat profusely and disturb the other people around me. It's just the best. That's my side note. Continue.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

Yeah. They actually do blast that song, Killing in the Name, by Rage Against the Machine, in like a boss battle. They they they have like loudspeakers that they stun the enemy with that song.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Bombs, you don't just stop giving me spoilers. I'm actually getting mad at you.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

I don't I trust me, like, there's no way you might remember it when I when you finally get to it, but it's like it's such an inane spoiler that like it doesn't mean anything to you at this point. Yeah, but anyway.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Episode one, it's the it's the traveler's Gandalf. Oh hi guys, we're covering uh the Lord of the Rings uh new Amazon show. And by the way, Gandalf is uh the traveler. Don't be fooled.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

Um okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

So Bruce Willis is alive. No, he's dead the whole time, actually.

SPEAKER_04 42:37

Oh my god, shut up. I don't know what we're talking about. You say it's six sense. Oh. We don't meet a whole lot of other crawlers at this point in the dungeon. And I think that that's kind of intentional. The writer wants you to really get to know Carl and Donut for the most part. Also, it's pretty clear that there's not a lot of crawlers that come from the Seattle area. They were in the midst of a giant snowstorm at the time, everyone was indoors. It would it was very rare for anyone to have been outdoors. Rich, you were gonna say something.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Can I not sure if this is bordering on spoilers? Okay, but you can ask me a question. I have to ask you a question because I think I'll be angry if this happens. Like, Beatrice is not in the dungeon, is she?

SPEAKER_00 43:22

My personal theory. I'm not gonna answer that. I'm not gonna answer that. Come on.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

That's a pretty big Can I say my theory name is? You can say your theory.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

So I I called Dakota after like chapter three or something like that, and I was like, so Beatrice is alive, right? And he was like, I'm not gonna answer that. And the reason why I think she's alive is because I'm wondering if this is like a Dante's Inferno reference.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

And you're gonna have to explain that to uh because you had to explain that to me. And I I don't think when I looked it up, anyone had ever made that reference.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

I don't know. It just like I thought Beatrice was kind of like a like she was like a light or something, she was like a guide or something. I don't I don't remember that one.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Well in Dante's Inferno, Beatrice was the muse and also like the guide for Dante going into hell and purgatory and then heaven.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

But so when as soon as I heard because they refer to her as Bee so much, and then I was like, oh wait, because then like I've noticed Carl always calls her B and Donut always calls her Beatrice. And Miss Beatrice. Miss Beatrice. And like it was when I heard her say Beatrice, I'm like, oh, she's alive. I just thought that, but I I could be completely wrong. And to be honest, I don't even remember Dante's Inferno like in in that much detail.

SPEAKER_04 44:41

You could be entirely wrong. But I can't.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

In Over the Garden Wall, Beatrice is kind of like a deceptive character who's also guiding them through the world. And that's where I was like, and we know that like they do a pretty good job at villainizing Beatrice, and she is kind of a bad person, and I wonder if there's going to be kind of a redemption arc later.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

I I think I'm just annoyed because like clearly like it's a full book and she's mentioned so much and there's no payoff in this book. Right? And it's like F U Matt Dinnerman, whatever you're gonna is that his name? Did I get it right?

SPEAKER_04 45:17

Dinnerman. Oh, look at that. Dinner rhymes with Cinnamon.

SPEAKER_03 45:20

Dinner Man. Uh so like I I just I guess for me it's like it's a you know, it's a it's a it's not a short book, I don't I wouldn't say. But I I don't know. Like I read it on my iPad, so it was like four hundred and thirty-six pages or something, but my type set is pretty big because I'm old, so it makes it easier to read. I just uh I I did feel like a little gypped, I guess, is what is what I uh how I feel about it. Like I just I felt like you'd get a little bit more before the book ended, and um that's all.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

I actually felt that way about a different character up until literally the very end. I was probably I don't know, like a couple of chapters towards finishing the book, and I got really irritated that they didn't mention Agatha again. And I was like, I feel like there's something weird about that. I actually called Dakota and I was like mad because I'm like they painted Agatha to be this like really Agatha's also like kind of a witchy name, and I thought like, oh, this is a character of importance, just the name alone. I it's just like a heavy name.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Did you think it was her all along? Yeah, I was thinking that same thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

I like I called Dakota and I was like, I feel like they really breezed past the fact that Agatha was edited out of the footage. That seems very notable and very important, and everybody was just like, Yeah, I guess it just didn't work with their narrative.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

And it's like And only Chris noticed the guy who doesn't speak at all.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yeah, I just I don't know. I and then literally I was actually irritated by it, and then a couple of minutes later she comes back at the end of the book, and I was like, Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_04 46:58

So what are what are we what are your current thoughts on Agatha? Like, Anthony, what are what are your thoughts on Agatha as a character?

SPEAKER_02 47:04

It was interesting. Um she did seem to be a crazy old lady, you know, or crazy homeless person, but she very well could be a part of the you know the all the people that that are a part of the dungeon that are not crawlers, like the NPCs, I mean they were there living amongst the humans, so she could have been one of them, but like just experiencing the crawl. So I mean it's it we'll see. It it is interesting that she popped up with some stuff that she probably shouldn't have had in her cart.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

And she knew she knew that she shouldn't have.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Yeah, that's I think she's more than just like uh an immigrant alien.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

I think it's a little bit more I thought that we got like an explanation that she sh like her race it what are they called? It starts with a V. The Valte. It's not a race, especially.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

No, it's the company, right? It's a company. Oh, it's the company.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Uh but like didn't what's her name? The lobster lady with the big tits?

SPEAKER_04 48:06

Adette.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Uh didn't Audette like say that they're parasites or something? And they can like go into the room.

SPEAKER_04 48:11

So the Valte is owned by uh sentient brain worms that take over the host body and basically become that thing. We do not, as of where you are right now, have confirmation that Agatha is uh a brain worm-controlled individual. Because there are people in the Valte employee that aren't controlled by brain worms.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

So we don't need to be. No, I mean that's a good assumption. Pick apart as many threads as you want. I can't say too much about Agatha because I still don't fully understand her.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

In book seven?

SPEAKER_04 48:53

In book seven, I just got like some really uh wrench thrown in my Agatha theory and floored.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

You know you're gonna make me do, right? You know what's gonna happen. Tomorrow is my last day of work, ladies and gentlemen. Alright? And I'm gonna go full data from Star Trek and just download these things into my brain. And by next podcast, I might be past you, Dakota. That's gonna be my goal. I'm actually gonna try to read so much that I pass you by next Wednesday.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

I beat you with this book. I was really proud of that. That but I wanted it to be documented in the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

If I can if I if I can read while I drive to work, I would be crushing it right now.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

You can.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

But I can't. No, because I'll remember I'm sorry. So I will say that I can't, I will never be able to enjoy to do the uh the the audiobook. I that's just not I read. I have to see the words, it sticks with me. I um I go over things, I make notes, I ask questions as I'm doing it. I don't do that with sp spoken word. The only like I do.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

So I do both. I actually do both.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

I read along having a big brain, Rich.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

I actually read along. I like I I actually like I I was like I was.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Wait, you have the book open while you're listening?

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Oh, that's cool. That I can't do because I get like I need to move around or be driving or something.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Oh no, yeah. See, the the the thing is is that like if I get distracted, my brain will stop listening to whatever it is that I'm listening to. And like if I try to do too much, then like the ADD will not lock in on what's being said.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Like I'll I was watching, I had to I had to have something on a noise to distract me as I was silently reading. So I put on uh the the actually the soccer game in Spanish. And the great thing about that is when they s when something's gonna happen, you hear like the audible in Spanish, you're like, hey, I give you you know, and you're like, okay, now I look up. So it was uh fantastic. Uh that was actually a great way for me to do it. But yeah, it'll be uh I don't know. I I there's a part of me that also wishes that like we could keep doing the series and then like you guys switch to a read and see how like that that shape maybe changes how you enjoy or not enjoy the book. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Dakota and I found out a pretty big benefit actually to reading the book. Dakota's brother Noah read the book and he was talking about a scene that neither Dakota nor myself remembered. Dakota called me and he's like, Hey, do you remember a scene where like Lorelei and Rory get like more sentient or something? And I'm like So you read it, we don't we didn't have that in the audiobook.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

So we have to figure out, like, if you could actually send me whatever you read it on, because I would like to go and read that scene, I have no idea what happens there.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Yeah, it's it's like an extra scene that they added to the end of the book where I think it's for like the reprints, they have added like an extra scene in every book, which is kind of frustrating because now I'm seven books deep and I don't have access. Well, you mean like the epilogue or like there's an actual like so there's an epilogue to this book, and the epilogue is them back on Odette's show. Yeah, yeah. They're talking about the SNCC. Yeah, I read that. But there's there's something after that's added in the reprints of it. Oh. Where I think it's something called Hold on, I'll f I'll I have it up right now.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Yeah, let me know if this is in your copy, Rich.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

No. So my copy, my copy ends, my I'm looking at it right now. I just pulled it up on my iPad. My copy ends with uh new achievement. You read the book and the next one.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

Yeah, it says it's over, yo, right? Yeah. Yeah. I have I have the the like I said, like I I read along while I listen, and I would have noticed that like if it got cut off anywhere and it literally stops where where Rich is saying.

SPEAKER_04 52:55

I don't see any It's called the scene in question is called Backstage at the Pineapple Cabaret. And it has an interesting I don't I haven't read it yet, but I had a I guess my brother told me about it, he thought it was interesting, and I was just like, Yeah, yeah, I remember that. But I didn't actually remember that. No, it's gonna sinton. Well basically Rory, the uh the goblin shamanca from floor one has a sort of third wall breaking experience where she is now understanding that she is just a character in a game or in a system and she's kind of breaking out of the matrix basically. And not physically, but like you know, like mentally, she's starting to realize this is kind of like a simulation. And it it's important narratively, I think, moving forward. It doesn't really become I have not met up with this character Rory past that point, but it is an interesting idea that the NPCs are kind of gaining consciousness.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

So yeah, I would really like to go and read that. Did you guys get the reference with like why the goblins were named Rory and Lorelei? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

I couldn't even believe that there was not one reference that I didn't get. Like I was like, man, like this covered it so well, like this tunnel, but then you said that you didn't get the A-Team reference, which is so depressing because the A-Team was known that every single episode they would get into some trouble, and then they would essentially like be locked somewhere that had like lots of equipment. Like, oh, here are these steel plated beams, and and they would find a blowtorch, and then they would just make something like every episode, and there was like a a great awesome like m song that played like bad like badass rock, and like and then they would like you would just see them banging and clanging, and then boom, they got an amazing thing that's gonna saw save the day, and that's what Carl does, like it's kind of absurd. It's I don't know, it's so good. Like it that's I'm telling you, I was appreh it's it's like if you meet so it's it's the first time you meet someone, maybe, and you're like, oh my goodness, like is this person really this amazing, or have I just been hoodwinked?

SPEAKER_02 55:11

I don't know. I like how he made like Molotovs and like bombs, and they uh the dungeons like you know, giving him a cut for every time somebody makes makes and uses it, even though they're like ripping him off. It's like I think he's he gets like 25% or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

There's a 25% tax, but it also gets rounded up. So like uh if he has five coins, if he were to cash it out, I think he only gets like a one coin uh in the exchange.

SPEAKER_04 55:44

It's called uh Carl's Jugaboom or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

Um can I ask one question that's gonna make me sound very naive? Please. The daddy tax joke. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

I wondered the same thing. I didn't get it either. The daddy tax joke.

SPEAKER_03 56:00

So she says that like that Beatrice used to say, like, oh, it's the daddy tax, and then he's like, what is that supposed to mean? Carl says that, and then like at the end of the fight, she's like, Oh, just so you know, Miss Beatrice used to say that about you. But I was like, Am I just too old? Like, is this like old mogging? I don't get it. Yeah, I don't know. Is this young maxing? Like, I didn't get it. Gooning.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Um, you know. And I don't know. I I was just like, oh like like when I went over that, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I guess it isn't important.

SPEAKER_04 56:33

That's it's not something that comes up again. So don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

I thought like maybe that was supposed to make it seem like she didn't actually want to sleep with him. Like she was just like kind of like, oh, I guess I have to do that sometimes. But then I thought like maybe it was like Princess Donut misunderstanding. You know what I mean? Like when I eat cheese, I give my dog the cheese tax. It could be something like she like left the last cookie for him. It could be anything. But I think Carl is Carl strikes me as somebody who is insecure in a lot of ways. And I mean what guy wouldn't be after all of the hits that he takes from this cat on a daily basis. Like, especially like when the old guy peees on the wall and she's like, yours isn't nearly that big. Like he just takes constant hits from this cat. Your girlfriend was cheating on you. Or as much as I'd love to see Carl disappoint another woman, like just endless hits from the cat. I understand, like anybody would feel insecure, but then it's I wonder if sometimes you know what Donut's saying might not actually be as bad as it seems.

SPEAKER_04 57:40

We should talk a little bit about some of the side characters because I think some of them are kind of important uh moving forward. What did you guys think of Mordecai?

SPEAKER_03 57:50

Love him. Love the name, love that he looks like Master Splinter. I feel for him Until until he doesn't. Yeah, yeah. He's he might be my uh I don't know. Like I like actually if you were to say pick your favorite character, I would probably purposely be weird and not I mean obviously you're supposed to like Carl and Donut, right? Like that's just easy, right? So like to me, like that's too easy. Like, I'm gonna go with Mordecai because like I don't know, like I get it, you know, and like and I love also as somebody who like is scared of like authority and follows the rules, like I but wants to help people, like I get like Mordecai, I love him, you know, because he's like it really shouldn't. Alright, come closer, you know. Like and I re no other words.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

It's like actually Rick's teaching style.

SPEAKER_03 58:35

Yes, that's literally kind of how I work at work, you know. I'm like, come on, get over here. Shh. You know, like no receipts, uh, you know, nobody can catch you. So I don't know. I love Mordecai, actually. I really, really do. And there's something about that that name for some reason that I also particularly like. So I don't know. Maybe that's a name. Mordecai Lopez sounds like a it's got a nice ring to it.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

Oh, it's a great, yeah, that's a great thought. Um, so when I was listening to it, they described Mordecai as being like this rodent, and I literally thought to myself, huh, that sounds more like a bird name. And then like, like very shortly after, it's like I'm actually more of a bird person. And I thought that was so weird. And then he's a skyfowl. And I was like, why the heck did I think the name Mordecai was a bird name to begin with? And then I realized that in the Royal Tenenbombs, the like hawk is named Mordecai. And I'm like, is this now I'm like looking for a reference in anything, you know?

SPEAKER_05 59:32

There's also the regular show.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

I've never seen the regular show.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

Yeah, the the blue jay in there is named Mordecai.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

So it's probably more likely that's probably more than than the than the bird in royal tenen bombs. But I just I thought it was so odd that I was like, huh, rat seems like a bird name to me.

SPEAKER_04 59:50

What did we think of Zev, their PR agent, the Kuitine PR agent.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

I love when she's explaining what fanfiction is to Donut. And she's like, the show never ends. Gossip Girl never ends. It's the best.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:05

I do like that Zev also likes Earth programs like Gossip Girl and everything, so they kind of bond a little bit there.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

I like that Zev kind of shows us that there are consequences, even for the administrators, which shows why Mordecai is so paranoid and anxious. Like he's very careful with his word choice because Zev messed up early on and kind of warned them that the old dude was peeing on the wall. Yes. And that almost cost her quite a bit.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:35

What about Odette?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:37

Oh, that's amazing. I love uh the reveal when Audette comes out of the uh the suit, right? Like it's like the um the description of like her her breasts say disgusting, just like um had me thinking about like I had because of that description, I had like this just this visual, right? I have this crazy visual, and I immediately disliked the person because of the visual that I associated in my brain. And then like the reveal is that it's fake, uh, which is amazing. But then I think my favorite part about the reveal is also that they have to kill like a sentient like they have to kill a creature every time to do this, you know. It's like, yeah, no, we're gonna kill we're gonna kill a crab every time and we do it. So uh I I don't obviously I don't have a voice for Audette, right? But for some reason, Audet s slightly in my mind is kind of like my mother-in-law. Like she's like this older white woman voice who smoked way too many like long cigarettes over her times.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:36

It's pretty close, actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

You know, like I just kinda I'm trying to think of it's no, no, I can't, I'm not grabbing it. There's like there's a movie, there's a kid's movie somewhere where like the guide, the kind of a guide type mentor is like an older woman with a raspy voice, and it just it that's just kind of what I picture. So I I hope I wonder if I kind of almost want to peek at the audiobook to hear if I'm right, but that's how I hear her, and I've I've fallen in love with her. So really it went from like curtain wearing weirdo to like nice to like a kind of like gravelly old woman, older woman, uh like kind of like a be author type, actually. I could kind of see her being like that in my head.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

Okay. I also love about Odette how like the beauty standards are so unrealistic and like actually quite repulsive in real life, which is how like I feel like we're kind of entering that realm where like certain groups of people just look so unnatural and so different that if you see them in real life, it's like uncanny. But on on the screen, for some reason that's acceptable and normal.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

He was like at one point when he's like looking at her boobs, he's like, Her body could possibly support those.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:46

I think they're just like on the table and the areolas are the size of direct TV satellite dishes. What an image she is on top of a crab. A giant crab with the face of a praying mantis. I love how that. But uh yeah, I I think that she's an interesting character in terms of you never really know what her goal is, you know. Like she's she definitely she claims that it's all about the money. I think I the first time they meet her, she mentions that it's all about the money, but I don't personally believe that, and I didn't believe it the first time it's brought up to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

Because of like her affection for Mordecai. I think that it like really brings a lot of humanity to her.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:29

There's definitely some backstory there that needs to be explored a little bit. Who else? I think we should probably talk about the old folks. You know, we have the other main crawlers that outside of like Frank Hugh and Maggie Mai are this group of the retirement home people and the people who are running the retirement home who are trying to keep these old people alive long enough so that they can like choose a class and like potentially heal some of their mental ailments and stuff, and their goal is to just get them down to the third floor so they have a fighting chance. And I love that. Um, I think that's such a bizarre character group to introduce into something like this.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

I there's some of this that to me is a little heavy-handed in the writing, and like this is such a sympath like this is such a way to make him a sympathetic character. You know, like he's such a good dude that like he even like helps the elderly when like his life is on the line. Like, it's actually like the opposite of extra like you have Frank and Maggie Mai who kill their own kid, right? And like I remind you, this is one book, right? But like it's a longer book, right? So you you would think some things could be a little bit more resolved. So you have them being like just pure evil because they killed their kid, and then like you have him as like a beacon of hope because he helps the elderly, even the guy who pees on the wall when he's told, like, if you don't like also, like, hey, if you don't pee, you're gonna die. And I love that the guy's like, whatever. You know, like he does it anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:10

It just I mean it's an old dude. You can kind of if you've ever been to a retirement home, you know, like there are those people who are just They're just gonna do what they do. They're just gonna do what they do. There's the guy that pees in the corner every single day. So I didn't mind that when it came to Jack peeing on the wall. In fact, I actually appreciated Jack peeing on the wall because it came it it brought into the story a crazy amount of action and intrigue, and how the heck are they gonna get out of this one?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

The one character with the old people that I am the most interested in is probably Amani. Amani. Yeah. I feel like she she does what needs to be done. Yeah. And she's just kinda she's keeping busy. She's just staying busy. She killed a few old people because she was like this is the right thing to do. Yeah, that's kinda that's like she took like a big hit. With that.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:01

Yeah, that's actually like a kind of a messed up introduction to that character. Like Carl doesn't trust her immediately because she has ten player killer skulls above her head. But we find out that no, these were just individuals who could not have survived at all in the dungeon. And that's gotta kill anyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Yeah, I think like of the characters. I do think the end of the book attempts to redeem Frank Hugh and Maggie, but with Amani, like she is genuinely a true neutral. It's I don't it was pragmatic, right? Yeah, I don't I don't know if Carl would have made that move or if he would have killed everybody attempting to save those old people.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:43

Wait, did I miss something? Did I read too fast? How did Frank and Maggie get redeemed?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

It's not that they explicitly It's not that they explicitly redeem them, but at the end of at the end of the scene where they're on the show, just you've brought it up multiple times, like Frank's just like stare of despair, and the wife feeling like the only thing she has left is vengeance on Carl. I feel like it shows that everybody in this world, even if you're a villain, you're still a victim of the situation.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

That is something that the series is very good at doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

Even characters that you And even in that moment, without really dialogue or anything, and I like the mutual all of them decided we're not gonna participate in the interview. Like Frank Q and Maggie honestly probably needed the ratings and should have, for strategic reasons, hammed up the situation in order to get more love, get more views, likes, all of that stuff, or whatever I forgot, like the verbiage. But they're clearly very disturbed by what they've experienced, and I thought that scene added to their humanity without redeeming what they did. It's obviously still wrong, but I do think it it portrayed them as more human because they went along with Carl's plan to decline the interview live.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:59

Yeah, so one thing that's really impressive about the series is that you you do run into a ton of characters who you don't like. You're and it's written in a way that you're not supposed to like these individuals, Carl doesn't like these individuals, but at the end of the day, when the bell tolls, they're still human and they have a story, and the the writer usually tells you a little bit about that story. And I I think that that is one of the strengths is that like even the characters that you think, wow, I can't wait to see that guy eat it, it doesn't always it's not it's bittersweet. It's really not like always exactly what you expect it's never what you expect with this series to be to be fairly.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:40

Sounds like a Jamie Lannister fan. Well, he redeemed himself, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

No, mmm, I don't think I mean I don't want to spoil Game of Thrones, but he did up until a certain point, and then he un-redeemed himself.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

The unredeemer.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:57

So yeah, so there there's a there's a couple other characters that I don't know if they're necessarily worth talking about, but Brandon and Chris, the brothers who worked at the retirement home. There's a couple like named retirement people. I think Ellie is one of them. Ellie McGibbons. She's the one who's always hitting on Carl, right? She's the one that's always hitting on Carl. We have Jack, but I'm pretty sure Jack dies. Yolanda dies trying to put like stop Jack.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

Yeah, by the elemental, it's completely eviscerated.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:28

Before we close out this podcast, I think it's important that we talk a little bit about Carl's strategic nature. Because that ultimately is the strength of the character, you know, like not only that he wants to help everyone, but he's the type of character that doesn't let no stop him. You know, like it in the beginning of the series, his catchphrase his catchphrase is God damn it, don't. You know, and that's funny and everything, but slowly throughout the first book and well into the series, he develops a s another catchphrase that's more to himself than anything. You know, he's like, You will not break me. I will break you. And that's like a mantra.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

We haven't heard him say I will break you in the first book.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:12

He does actually say it in the first book. I checked.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Oh, he does?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:16

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:16

No, no, I I just I'm I checked this so that's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:19

I think it's like right I think it's right before they're forced to go on deathmatch stream.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:24

Ah, okay. Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:25

It's like he he basically goes into the like he goes into the green room or whatever, the production room, and he's like, I'm not gonna do this, and he checks he checks like their the rules. And he like and he's silently saying to himself, like, I will not let you break me, I will break you. And that's like that's what prompts him to uh to go after uh Glurp Glurp, I don't I can't remember his name, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:49

The maestro and with the maestro, like that's the first time that we like Anthony was saying, that's the first time we really see Carl come out of his shell and tell it like it is. But going back to what I was like originally talking about, Carl is a very strategic person. He will not let the game, let the universe break him. So they're they're given an impossible task of like just like figuring out a way past this 90 level 93 Rage Elemental from the 13th floor. I'm not asking you guys to like rehash exactly what his plots are, because there are many plots that Carl comes up with that I'm like, I couldn't tell you what he did, but he did it. But what I what do you guys think of like his way of getting around certain things just by using the rules of the dungeon?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:38

I love it. I remember playing Skyrim and I'm not gonna lie, like just hiding, like just using like the mechanic of like running around a pillar in like a dungeon and like allowing the AI to kind of like the you know, the skeletons or whatever to get caught up slightly, you know, like in some sort of like glitch, you know, like with like the contact that shouldn't happen, you know. Like I would like catch an exploit like that, and I'd be like, oh boy, here we go. And I would totally take advantage. So like that's that's one of the other things like when I say like it's not just you know, I I know it's not written for me, but like I was like, geez, man, this is ridiculous. Like this is like I love this, you know. Like it he's pushing the boundaries of the game. Like when you go you know, when you figure out like the little like cheap thing, like I love in Red Dev Redemption, people have figured out how to get to an island that you're not supposed to be able to because like you carry like a cow in a certain position and it stops you from being shot by an invisible sniper, you know. Like I love game exploits, and when he does it, I think it's actually it's really endearing. Yeah, he just cheeses it. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:43

What is cheeses it mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:45

Cheesing is like you using um like a glitch or a a bug as like an exploit to um to like beat a boss or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

Oh, game.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

Like you like sometimes people will like you know say that there's like a a bug like in a boss room where like you can hide in a corner and like the boss can't follow you, so you could just spam them from like a you know with a ranged attack from a corner. Essentially like that's what he did, but like with um with uh like parts of the game like uh how uh mobs couldn't go to like other floors because if they tried they would get um they would get uh disintegrated. That you know that that that's essentially like a cheese. And like he and he realizes that like he didn't want uh like one another one was the table, like how the table didn't break. And he didn't want to say it out loud because he didn't want that to get patched out.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:43

Yes, actually that's a good point that you brought that up. Not that he uses that exploit often, but the idea of like what he's allowed or what he chooses to say out loud so that certain things don't get caught and fixed before he's able to get himself out of a situation.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:00

Does he use the table in this book? I actually forgot about that. What does he do with it? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:05

He makes the he makes the plat like the I think it's when they're fighting the glob creature he he helps make uh like the dome structure with the table.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:18

Oh, okay. And it it kind of like buffers the explosion. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:24

Yeah, the with the tentacles with the mouth.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:26

Yeah, yeah. The Kraken Karen. I kind of like that it's just like a Karen, but a Kraken. Anyway. So yeah, guys, uh final thoughts on the first book of Dungeon Crawler Carl. We'll start with Jen.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:41

Yeah, I I mean, like I said, I was apprehensive to think that this was something I was going to enjoy, but I actually ended up really liking it, and then having to pause and wait to record the podcast before starting the second book was a bit It's torture. Yeah, it was a bit torturous because I'm really excited about like them choosing their classes. I know some genuine stupidity is going to happen in that room. I feel like Princess Jonah's gonna be like, I wanna do you know, like I think it's I I feel like it's gonna be something absolutely ridiculous. And I also love that Carl was given the advice to let her choose first, and then he has to accommodate her choices because she's more powerful. Right. And I think that's gonna lead to something super silly that I'm quite interested in.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:25

But also, like, what did Audet she kind of like told them to do a certain thing with their class selections?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:31

They don't say it in the first book, but they say map she said that he should focus on something that gives him like a a mapping skill that's gonna be able to allow him to see more of the map clearly earlier on.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:46

Yeah, she does say that.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:47

She does say that, but she also tells them something that you don't get full clarity on until the second book.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:53

Well, she says something like make sure you don't pick something weird, like he should just stay a human. Um, but also some wasn't it like okay, so with your race, don't be adventurous, but listen to what the AI advises when it comes to your class. Like it says you should pay attention to what the AI advises with your class. Right. Am I is that what you were referring to?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:15

Or not really. I I I there's not there's no way that any of you are gonna know what she was talking about. So I I don't think you even like registered that. But anyway, Anthony, final thoughts on Dungeon Crawler Carl.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:29

Well, Jen was apprehensive, I was rehensive in watching this. I mean, and and listening to this. That's not a word. No, I was I I um I I I enjoyed it. I thought it was pretty fun. I think that the audiobook really just added to the charm of the book. I think that I know that like that that I mean that's a big thing with the fandom, right? Is the audiobook.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:56

Even the the writer suggests that that's his preferred way for people to be introduced to the series.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:02

Yeah. And I could see why. Because Jeff Jeff Hayes, like you can tell he has a good time with it. Oh he like like he he loves doing it.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:12

And if they do not use his voice for the AI in the in the TV series, I don't know. What are they doing? What are they doing? It is the most perfect voice for the AI. And we don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:27

Especially with the foot stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:29

Oh my god. The true worst.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:34

When I was hearing, my mouth was just like my mouth kind of dropped. I'm like, am I here? What?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:40

Yeah, he he starts Rich, he starts talking like and then those little pickies. It's so gross. It is really revolting. It's so bad. It's so bad. Um see, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:55

Okay, and Carl, Carl sounds like uh a little bit like Patrick Warburton. Like it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:01

Yeah. But uh alright, so we got we got two people who like it. Rich, I'm gonna ask you also how you liked the series, but I'm also gonna ask if there were any if you had one gripe going into the next book, like are you worried about a certain aspect of the storytelling or some or just that you're not gonna get clarity on certain questions that you've had or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:24

So I think inherently with a book, I'm gonna teach it a little bit. So I I don't know how to explain it. Like when I when things that authors do sometimes take me out of the book because it reminds me that it's a crafted narrative, if that makes any sense. Like when I watch Star Wars, I'm not I'm just watching Star Wars, I'm just enjoying it. When I'm reading, I'm a little bit more like, oh, they're doing this, he's doing this to do that, right? So that's why I asked the Beatrice question. Like, I'm like the like it's too heavy, like they're mentioning her too much, you know, something's gonna happen, you know. Like, so I think that um inherently with books sometimes I I kind of do that, but that's because it's my job, right? Like, I don't often just let go in a book and go, ah because I'm always my brain's almost kind of always creating like not if not a lesson plan, like at least questions that I would ask m the rest of the group about what we're reading. Um like I'm just kind of always getting smacked in the face with those things. But um no, but I do really like it. You know, like I there's a part of me that doesn't want to like it, like I like I said, uh it feels like I should like it. It's written for like my demographic age group almost, right? Like it's a little bit older than you guys, right? Because like the A-Team and the Knight Rider stuff, like you know, like you might know it, maybe, but like, you know, I was watching it like on Saturdays, you know, we didn't grow up on it, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:55

So it's I actually would say it's it's a bl it it's millennial. Because there's uh Gilmore Girls and Gossip Girls. Like, I would say like it's a b because Carl is 27. So essentially he's watching reruns when he's watching 18.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:14

Technically, I will say Carl isn't the one who gets most of the references, it's usually donuts references. So she's actually the one who's watching the TV, and which is crazy, but anyway. So my my biggest concern after reading the first book, and you can I did like a little review on TikTok, I think, where I just kind of talked about my thoughts. My biggest concern going past this was is this it? Is this the story? Am I just gonna follow them to the next boss and the next boss, and it's gonna be slightly bigger bosses every single time? Is the dungeon gonna get boring? Are they gonna introduce new characters? Because you know, we do see some side characters on like the recap episodes that seem interesting. Like there's a crazy 13-year-old Spanish girl who has two Dovermans and you know she's tearing it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:06

Lucy Amar. Lucy Amar, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:08

Yeah, she sounds so cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:09

Uh there's um and then the the like all-woman team.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:13

Hecla and uh yeah, Brynhild's daughters, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:17

Le Mouvement? No, are they gone? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:19

Uh Le Mouvement, yeah, I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Except for like one guy. Yeah, one guy got left.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:25

Oh my gosh, it seems to be a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:27

Left crying because he got uh he got it was a burrow boss, right? Yeah. Or city boss. It was like a city.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:35

Yeah, it was a city boss, yeah. It was just something that no like first second floor crawler is gonna be able to handle.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:41

The burrow boss was the Tusklings, that was a burrow boss.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:45

But anyway, so that was my biggest concern going into the second book, is just like this is gonna get boring after a little while. They're gonna get some achievements, they're gonna get some new loot, they're gonna go after another boss, blah, blah, blah. And I could probably do that for maybe three books, and then I would get tired. So I was kind of that's what I thought going into the second book, and I was pleasantly surprised at the tone change. If and when we do a second book for the podcast, uh the second book in the series would be Carl's Doomsday scenario. It'll be interesting hearing your guys' thoughts on all of that, you know, like how the story has changed or the trajectory of the characters and the plot is changing. And by by book three, the setting is so vastly different from like what you're seeing right now in the first book that it's it's literally like you're taking characters from Smallville and you're putting them in like Futurama. You know, it's it's like it's so bizarre like how the settings that the writer puts these characters in. And I it's could you imagine genuinely fun? No, it's it's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:57

Could you imagine like Lana Lange, like the most evil villain from Smallville being on Futurama? That would be insane. What a villain.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:07

Thanks so much for listening to us here for our 160. You know what? Hold on. Hold on. I'm getting a message from our sponsor. Oh, it's actually not a sponsor. I thought it was a sponsor, but it is in fact a sponsor.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:21

It is Voodoo Ranger, blood orange IPA this time. It's not juicy, but um, I I honestly, you know what? They're not a sponsor, but I thought the can's really cool. If you guys see this, it's got Invincible versus Voodoo Ranger. So I thought it was pretty cool. And uh, you know what else would be pretty cool? What do you think would be pretty cool, Dakota, if uh what happened next?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:40

You know, there's a lot of blood in this series. It starts from the get-go, you know, as soon as uh heads roll in the first chapter. But so it's it's a juicy book, you know, in in unpleasant ways mostly.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:53

Clurp, clerk.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:54

Um wherever you listen to your podcast, whatever public whatever podcast application you are listening to us in, please be sure to give us a five-star juicy review. We'll be sure to cover another Dungeon Crawler Carl book very soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:10

Okay, can I ask one end question? Sure. So, you know, like you could only favorite one person per party.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:16

Favorite one person per party. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:19

Isn't it like you can only I don't understand the question? In the for the audience, can't they all they have to choose between Donut and Carl? Like who their favorite is? Like if they want to support one person.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:30

I forget. I think it's important mechanics in the beginning, but Do you guys remember this or am I just making stuff up? No, I think you're right. Yeah, why what's the question then?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:38

Because my question is I wanted to ask everybody if you had to choose who is.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:48

I think as of the first book, I would probably favorite donut just because it's a crazy wild character. But that would just be for the first book. Uh Anthony?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:01

It's tough because I feel like for most of the first book I would say donut, but by the end, you're like, like you you can you see that that there's something transitioning with Carl by the end.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:11

Like and anyone anyone watching this like intergalactically would be like, how did that floor two guy just do that? You know, like it's almost like he's cheating. So I think people might switch their favorites at that point. What about you, Rich? What would would you be favoriting Donut here or Carl?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:30

Never a cat, sir. Never a cat. It'd have to be Carl. And it's not I just it's it's me being like a little a little rich. Like I just Sure. Like I I want to Carl I like Carl over Donut. I like the fact that he's barefoot all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:44

Yeah, our cat literally just walked up.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:46

Yeah, I think my cat heard you and is offended.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:48

Thank you so much for listening to us here for our 167th episode of Project 67. He was waiting for that one. 167. Anyway, next week we're covering the Sheep Detectives, a movie very excited with uh Hugh Jackman. Huge jacked man.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:09

Wait. Huge jacked man, yep. You mean the Wolverine? Bye guys. Get out there and kill, kill, kill.