Troy (2004)

Achilles doesn’t want peace, he wants a name that survives him, and Troy (2004) builds its entire engine around that hunger. We come at this rewatch from two angles: some of us grew up with it on heavy DVD rotation, and some of us are seeing it for the first time and wondering why critics ever dismissed a movie with this much scale, sweat, and practical fire on screen. With Christopher Nolan’s Odyssey on the horizon, we use Troy as a springboard to talk about the Iliad, Greek mythology, and why people are suddenly circling back to ancient epics again. 

We dig into what makes Troy feel different from early-2000s blockbusters: it plays things straight. That sincerity can read “too serious” if you’re expecting quips, but it also lets the film breathe as a tragic war story. We talk through the craftsmanship that still pops: the grounded production design, the brutal battle staging, the Trojan Horse build that looks plausibly cobbled from shipwreck materials, and the fight choreography that makes the Achilles vs Hector duel genuinely thrilling. We also shout out the underrated details, from the costumes and armor to the hair and makeup choices that give the whole world a distinctive look. 

Then we get into the big adaptation question: what happens when you strip most of the gods out of a myth where the gods normally meddle constantly? We debate what the movie gains in realism and what it loses in fate, irony, and cosmic consequence, plus we poke at the timeline shortcuts that make the “they just left the beach” moment hard to swallow. We close with final grades, favorite performances, and a quick history detour on how Troy went from “probably a legend” to an archaeological site with real layers beneath Hisarlik in modern Turkey. 

If you enjoy smart movie talk, ancient history rabbit holes, and honest hot takes, subscribe, share this with a friend who loves epics, and leave us a five-star review with your spiciest Troy opinion.

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Anthony's Twitter: https://twitter.com/odysseyswow
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Transcript

Riddle Of The Stacked Cast

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Guys, I have a question for you. What does Legolas of the Woodland Row Ned Stark of Winterfell, William Stryker, Alistair Maddie Moody, The Aura, and Tyler Durden of Fight Club, and Corday of Attack of the Clones, what do they have in common? I'll tell you. Their actors all appeared in this movie in 2004 that we're covering today. Troy, yes, Troy, based on Homer's Iliad. We are covering the 2004 Troy film. I am one fourth of your hosts, the very boring and very obnoxious Dakota. And I am joined as always with Anthony.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

And you actually also forgot one more person. You forgot uh Bruce Banner. You know? Honestly, had Bruce Banner just hulked out, would have ended that war.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

I know, I completely forgot.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

He honestly had he hulked out that war would have been wrapped up, you know, that first day. But yes, we are covering Troy and uh joining us as always is Rich, and I can't believe the disrespect put on Moormont's name, alright?

SPEAKER_03 1:11

The commander at the wall. Alright, he's also in it, so it's uh unbelievable. But uh I'm uh I'm very excited to discuss this uh star-studded event. But uh we can't do it alone, and we are also joined by Hi, I'm Jen. That's Jen.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

That's just our local Jen guys, don't worry. I'm just here sometimes. She's here for moral support. Sometimes it's hard to record. That's why Jen comes around. Yeah, so we're covering Troy 2004, starring Matt Damon as uh as Odyssey. I'm just thinking about white, I'm just thinking about white dudes. Um, yeah, no, we we're really excited to talk about Troy. And uh I think part of it is because the Odyssey is coming. Uh Christopher Nolan's Odyssey. I I think we're just um kind of subconsciously we I think everyone has that in their like subconscious currently, and I think a lot of people are actually like going back to this movie just uh kind of re-up ourselves on a little bit of the history, even though this kind of skirts a little bit of what actually happens in the books and the his like the actual historical accounts. I mean actual historical accounts, who knows? But yeah, I'm I was like uh pretty surprised about this one because this is actually the first time I had ever seen this film. I had never I had never watched uh Troy before. I don't think it's no, I don't think I ever I've ever sat down to watch it. So this was fun. But

Life Updates And Current Watches

SPEAKER_04 2:40

before we jump into any of that, what have we been up to? And it's only been a couple days because we recorded uh earlier this week. But what have we been up to, guys? Let's start with Jen before you shove that ice cream in your mouth. What you been up to?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

I've been up to eating ice cream that you're holding me back from because I usually go last in this. Um, what have I been up to? I've been playing a lot of games on my phone. I've been playing this arrows game, I've been playing a game of with yarn. Uh I've been re-watching Sopranos and Gilmore girls. I like to alternate depending on my mood.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Alright, nice.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Um so like if I'm feeling just a little bit more mellow, I put on Gilmore Girls. If I'm feeling a little bit more humorous, I put on Sopranos. Just depending, you know, on the vibes. And fun fact, the those two shows kind of exist in each other's worlds. So like there's episodes of Gilmore Girls where they reference Sopranos and talk about the show. And there's episodes, I think it's only one episode of Sopranos where I believe Junior is watching Gilmore Girls.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

That's bizarre. That's actually so weird to think about.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah, they exist in each other's worlds. It's like they're watching each other's TV shows, really. And I'm watching them both.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

I love that for you.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Rich, what have you been up to, buddy? Seismic shifts in my life. I don't know if we have enough time to discuss them all this tonight, but uh no, uh, you know, uh actually I'm re-watching uh Sopranos as well. I'm in my the second season, so I I usually around this time after uh round testing I get into a Sopranos rewatch, so I'm doing that. I also caught the first episode of Spider-Man War on Amazon. Yeah, the full season dropped. They did it uh if today is Thursday. I want to say they may have dropped a Tuesday or something like that. So they dropped the entire series.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Dang, they snuck that one in on us because I I didn't even know. Like I knew it was coming out, but I didn't realize that it had come out already.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

I've been like away from like the superhero sphere of like comic book movie Twitter for a while, so I I I I can understand why I didn't hear about this, but hearing that a whole show has come out and I haven't actually actu seen anyone talk about it online is uh a little bit crazy, but I'm I'm curious now because it actually does look really good.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

I don't think people are expecting it. Uh to I don't think it was expected to be dropped like this, it seems. Like I even I my Twitter is pretty heavy on that stuff, and I was I almost caught it by accident. Like I you know, it was I think somebody I just saw somebody say like wow, I can't believe they dropped the whole season. So I was like, wait, it's out already? The entire thing? So I I watched the first episode. I mean, I think it looks really you know, it's the first episode, so it's tough to judge, but it looks great. And uh Nick Cage does the I mean, I think he's Spider-Man War, like I buy it.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Meanwhile, Avatar Studios and their Legend of Aang movie uh leaks the entire thing in full 1080p like Blu-ray quality, but still no trailer, still no official trailer for that film that comes out later this year. I'm gonna move past that. Uh, what have I been up to? I've I've started book five of the Dungeon Crawler Carl series. I'm like full tilts into this. It's one of those things like that it's always been in my periphery, and I've talked about this a little bit over the past couple episodes, but it's always been in my periphery, um, like ever since COVID, uh, that this was a thing. But I don't know if it's just like it's blowing up right now, and I just decided to give it a shot, or if I, you know, started like looking up this content and then I'm just receiving a bunch of content about this book. I don't know what's happening, but I like all over my feed, especially on like TikTok and stuff, it's all dungeon crawler carl themed.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

But um anyway, it's a really good series. I heard that there's like a really bad timelining in the the series though. Oh, did you hear that?

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Uh I see, I see. Well, I did mention on Twitter that earlier in the week I had released a rant-like video about book four because the timeline does break pretty significantly. So, long story short, if you like I'm I'm mapping the events day by day. So if it starts on January 1st and ends on January 3rd or whatever, like that's three days, or like these events occur on a couple days. But then the book tells you actually, it's been five days since this event. I start to question myself. I I start to question my sanity. And I made a video about like this this rant because it doesn't make any sense. And going into book five, I mean I've been doing like my timeline notes. I do timeline notes on pretty much everything. I didn't I didn't do it on Troy for some reason, but I did I do timeline notes on pretty much everything. Uh I have a note for sheep detectives, guys. Anyway, uh what was I saying? In book five, they uh a a similar thing happened, but like the book is even more specific about time frames. So like we have 30 hours between this event and this event, we have 45 hours between this event and this event, we have 60 hours, and there's a bunch of those overlapping timescales that need to occur before certain events, but then if the book tells me later, actually, instead of three days, it's six days later. I I have to question it. And I I may I mocked up a little timeline. I I brought it up to TikTok. I I said, guys, you got mad at me the other day for defiling your sacred texts, and now I'm here with receipts. This is what's wrong. And yeah, so I'm waiting for the responses. I'm I'm curious to see how people react to actually like actual proof that there's like an actual mistake in the series. I'm not saying that like I dislike the series because of this. I'm just it was something that aggravated me in the moment, but I I I do love these books. So anyway.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

That's like Yoda burning down the the hut with the secret the sacred Jedi texts, man. The Sacred Texts Was that how I read your that's how I read your tweet when you I read Sacred Texts!

SPEAKER_04 8:36

But otherwise, not too much in the past couple days, outside of Troy and I started watching Invincible. I don't know why I never jumped into it before, but great series. I'm pretty early on, just a couple episodes into season one. I had read the comics. It's kind of like the boys. I I I read the boys, I read Invincible. I never watched those shows. So that's that's where we're at now. Anyway, guys, uh, shall we talk about Matt Damon's movie?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Oh, hey, what have you been up to?

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm dude, I'm so sorry. No, no, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Honestly, like not much.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

He's saying we're good, guys. Let's let's jump ahead.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah, I've actually I I've watched Invincible also. It's it's crazy. Uh it's it's good, it's brutal for sure. But it it is a fun watch. Yeah, it I mean it it's only been it what three days since since we last recorded, so nothing really big ha has been going on. Just you know, found a way to found the time to to watch this movie. I I forgot like how long this movie was, and it's not that it like drags on. It's just like I was it's I don't know, it it's sometimes it's tough to like sit down and watch a movie like when you're at the house. But like when you're in a theater, it's easy because you can lock in and just the movie. So Yeah. It's it's definitely it's definitely tougher like the older you get. And I know for you guys it's definitely like it's definitely tougher, especially probably for Jen, when it comes to like sitting and and watching a long movie. So but yeah. I I don't blame you. I really don't blame you. I actually watched it all today.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

During cheap detectives, I was actually in a lot of pain. I was like wildly uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Oof.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Well, I mean, I'm pregnant, by the way, for the listeners who don't know. Speaking of Troy.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

I mean, I think it's obvious to everybody listening. Let's hop into it.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Yeah, so

The Juicy Review Request

SPEAKER_04 10:32

this guy, Achilles, Brad Pitt.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

You know what's crazy? Right out of the gate. He was like 40 during that film, but he looks like way younger.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

He's 40?

SPEAKER_02 10:42

He is 40 in that movie, dude. He looks like he's like 30.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

I mean, that's what I looked like three years ago. That's true, actually. That's just what happens when you turn 40. Just watch. When you guys turn 40, it's like this magic year for men. You're just ship your life. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Rich literally can't handle criticism like that, Anthony. I'm gonna be hearing about this tomorrow. I'm just gonna be like, so when Anthony said that.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

By the way, our sponsor this week is, of course, Juice Force, Voodoo Ranger.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Well, they say IPA does that to you, it ages you up.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

When when somebody gives you a bad comment, like we get on the show sometimes, I know you guys won't leave us one, but I just drink, I just reach for Voodoo Ranger, Juicy Haze IPA, and drink it away. Unofficial sponsor.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

Yeah, I'm glad you like that drink. Uh, I'm drinking a blue moon. Not the same beer at all, but good with juice. And you know what else has uh a lot of juice? This film. Lot of juice spurting out of random gashes in people's bodies. And it uh gets everywhere. You know, this the blood gets everywhere. Anyway, guys, juice. Please be sure to give us a five-star juicy review whenever you get the opportunity. Specifically now, pause this recording right now and review this podcast five stars and put the word juice in there somewhere. Who knows? Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Who knows what what'll happen? Who knows what'll happen? Anything could happen. We have no idea. We're also curious.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Back to the podcast. This guy,

First Reactions To Troy’s Tone

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Achilles, wants people to remember his name. That's his like number one life goal, and it's kind of sad, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, it is a weird life goal.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Okay, just enjoy enjoy the present.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

So, this was your first time uh actually watching this movie, Dakota?

SPEAKER_04 12:30

I'm thinking about it. I it's one of those movies that was always around, you know? But I don't I definitely did not ever like sit down to watch it. Yeah, I I think I might have been I don't know, because I loved Gladiator when I was a kid. And that's probably even more mature than this one. But for some reason, yeah, this never this never caught my attention. Yeah, I don't know. But I'll tell you what though, throughout the movie, so I knew that this movie has was never like reviewed well. You know? I knew that this back in the day, back in 2004, this did not play well for critics. In the early 2000s, and like like the the t 2000s in general, Sincerity was not in the 2000s, like I think the the reason this movie did poorly is because it plays itself so serious. It's uh it's it plays itself so sincere. But if you really think about like the movies, specifically the the action movies and the drama movies that made it big in this time period, they all had a little quippiness to it. They all had a lot a lot of jokes interlaced with their action. And this doesn't have that at all. So I have a feeling this probably felt old-timey to a lot of viewers back in the day. And the dogs next door barking like crazy, so I apologize for that. But I I would assume that that's the primary reason that this movie just didn't play well for critics at the time is just that they wanted something different. But had this movie come out today, I feel like it would have done a lot better. A lot of what you see in this movie is very is is practical. The sacking of Troy. Like all of those scenes with the there's like a whole bunch of fires in the background, like fires are blowing up doors, people are like falling off of facades, and you know, people are like screaming on staircases. That's all legit. That's all real. There's no CGI there, and that really impressed me. There's actually a really strong adherence to practical effects in this movie in an age where, you know, the like this is shortly after Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy. Um CGI was on the up and up. CGI was on the up and up, you know. They could have shot this digitally, you know. Lord of the Rings was uh was filmed on film, and so was this. This was filmed on film, and I think that that is part of the film's charm, actually, because uh it feels like it could have been made in the 60s. It feels like it could have been a much older film than something that's just 20 years old at this point. Um and Jen's bouncing on her little bouncy ball next to me. She looks like she's partying. It's a little distracting. Sorry. What did you guys think of this movie? Um I've kind of given my two cents. Uh what I will say is I was occasionally bored. I think it was overly long, but I really appreciated the movie for what it was, and I think the sincerity is actually nice now that we've lived in a like 20 years of like quippy action movies.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

But I do think there were some like lines that were kind of funny.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

Like what?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Like the line where Achilles is talking to Hector for the first time, and Hector's like, think of like how many men, how many men's wives will be missing them, and then Achilles is like, maybe you could send your brother to comfort them. I heard he's good at comforting other men's wives. Like that one's really funny, but for some reason Brad Pitt, I feel like they really toxed up his forehead. They gave him a bunch of Botox or something. Like his facial range, like his facial expression range isn't what it is in some of his other films, at least in my opinion. And he just delivered it like super deadpan and straight. But I felt like that genuinely could have been kind of uh delivered a little bit more humorously. And if you've seen other Brad Pitt films, you know that he's capable of.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

My favorite line, my favorite line in this movie has got to be in the very beginning when a kid helps him wake up for for a battle, and he the kid goes, I could never do what you're doing, and he goes, That's why nobody's gonna remember you. Like this kid helped you out. Dude, like necessary, and the kid just like looks at him like, Yeah, I guess not. Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

It kind of reminded me of like when Darth Maul just hits Anakin with his like or he tries to like he tries to just hit Anakin like for no reason. He just sees his kid walking and is like, I'm gonna hit him.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

Anthony, you I feel like we keep cutting you off. What are you trying to say?

SPEAKER_02 16:59

So

Mythology Choices And Character Arcs

SPEAKER_02 17:00

so for me, I mean, I I enjoy this film. I'm a I I like you know the insanity of of Greek mythology. I mean, the the the fact that like they and they like people back in the day genuinely believed that these gods and and these myths like existed, but like it's so entertaining. And yeah, and on actually, like the the whole bit with like the gods and stuff is actually tapered off in this in the Iliad and the Odyssey, there's actually they're actually like existent within the world. The whole thing between Paris and Helen is like stoked by Aphrodite. So you know, so so really like you you get you know you you get some of that that's missing, like the the bit of the gods, but I think that it kind of grounds the story in a way, and um, which it it's like an it's like an interesting take, right? I feel like I feel like the gist of the reason why the Trojan War happened, like the the the reason why it happened, it was pretty much intact, right? Because um, you know, Helen was, you know, whether against you know, whether it was against her will or or she did it willingly, um, she was taken from Sparta and brought to Troy. And the whole like, you know, Trojan horse bit, that that's obviously in the story. If they didn't do that, then they would have been like missing something huge.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Literally.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

Rich, thoughts on this movie? Have you seen this movie before, Rich?

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Yeah, so I saw it at very least once in the theaters, uh, and I probably re-watched it four or five times while it was like on TV somewhere. You know, I like Anthony, I'm a huge fan of uh Greek mythology and stuff like that, so this was kind of right up my alley. You know, I didn't care at the time that it was different than other movies and that it wasn't funny. I didn't expect it to be funny. I expected it to be, you know, I I I knew the story, so I didn't expect any humor. I I expected it to be uh awesome movie. I mean William Stryker is fantastic as a bat like he's just the best villain almost ever. Like he's he's really just so great at being pedantic, be uh just I love the scene where he's You want him to die by the end of this. Yeah. You know, and and when they win the um when he has the scene where like they they win the beach battle or something and he's like accepting gifts and he's like, You will be the first to walk in the city with me. And he's like, you will be the first to dine in the gardens of Troy. And I'm just like, you know, he's just like coming up with an area, you know, and then like dropping it that the guy's gonna be included, but it was just so masterful, you know. And then even when he's asking like if there was any gold recovered from the uh are you sacked the uh Temple of Apollo, he's like, Yeah. He's like, Yeah, I'll share all the gold you want, you know, Achilles says, and he's like, Oh, don't worry, I already got it. And then he pulls out the girl. Uh he's just so evil. Uh so it's so the movie does such a great job of if you don't know anything about Greek mythology, you know, I think that like Achilles ha Achilles has a character arc, Paris has a character arc, Helen has a character arc, you know, so many there there's so much development and growth that I forgive the three hours.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

So um I I think in the you know, sa sadly in the actual story, Agamount Agamon ugh, I cannot say his name. Agamemonum? Yes. Agamemnon. He actually survives the war, but then his wife kills him.

SPEAKER_04 20:46

Get it sis.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah, his wife and her boyfriend, right? Like imagine like you come home, get cooked, and then they kill you.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

He had it coming though.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

That would suck.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Did he wait, did he did she know he was coming home, or did he like surprise, get there early? Because then that's his fault.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

He comes home just like Agamemnon.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yeah, um an A2 Brute moment, you know?

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Dang. Um, gotta hate those moments.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Uh I um I I think that you could have an adaptation, I mean, that isn't exactly true to the source, especially with a source that's like much older. I remember I had a professor for US history in college that really hated the Hamilton play because he was like, there's so many inaccuracies, and it played it, you know, paints Alexander Hamilton as you know, this person who was kind of there for more of the working class, but you know, Alexander Hamilton didn't want to give them the right to vote. And his like the first day of the class, he just went on and on and on about it. And I just sat there because the only reason why I had signed up for that class was because I liked Hamilton. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna learn more about like the characters in Hamilton. And it's kind of like your gateway drug. Like I ended up learning the truth anyway. Like I learned the source material later, but it was kind of like you got a little taste and you got into it. When I was a kid, I think this movie got me like really into um like Greek mythology and stuff like that. And then after that, I started buying a bunch of books and getting really into like I had a bunch of books about like Troy. I had read a whole series on that. It was like a historical fiction series, and I learned you know what actually happened later, but it's okay, you know.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Sometimes you don't have to be perfect. Sometimes you need to to hear the story of George Washington cutting down his father's cherry tree just to get excited about history, you know? Yeah, it might not be true, might not have happened, but gosh darn it.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

You get a little sampling, you get a little taste, and then you come back for more. Here they give us a little taste. They give us a bunch of really ripped dudes in crop tops with eyeliner, braids in their hair, and I was like, man, I really need to learn more about this.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

Now, Anthony mentioned a good point that they kind of stray away from the more mythological aspects of the story. But it's kind of interesting because they they straddle the line on that, because they show his mother is is a god. Or they kind of hint at it, you know, like she has visions that like you know he's gonna die here if he goes to this location. But that's pretty much the only real, I guess, like mythological aspect to this movie outside of you know the we don't really know if the story actually.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

But the priest said that the horse was a gift from the gods.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

But we don't see the gods, you know, like the only like right call that Paris makes in the entire movie is he's just like burn it. It's the only good call for real the entire film log. The whole movie was his fault. The whole movie was his fault.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

The whole the whole Trojan War was his fault. But I actually kind of go back a little bit to to what you said that this movie um gave you that that taste of like Greek mythology, and and I actually what got me into Greek mythology was actually similar to this movie, but I I read like the condensed like kids' version of the Odyssey. Um it was like it was called The Adventures of Ulysses. And so, you know, I got you know, obviously it's not like the Iliad and the Odyssey, it it's like you know, the really just the important parts of the you know the war and then um Odysseus's uh tenure, you know, his ten year journey back home, which is actually insane. He was actually gone for 20 years. Like the this Trojan War was like 10 years. You imagine like they were like poking at this city for 10 years, like this and they condensed it down to I think what like maybe a couple weeks in the movie. But can you

Trojan Horse Logic And Timeline

SPEAKER_02 24:53

imagine they did this for 10 years, like fighting this war? They're like just there for 10 years fighting. That's that's that's insane. And then yeah, Odysseus.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

The ending makes way more sense when you think of it as like a 10-year-long war where it's like a plague got to them, they might have run out of like food and money and all of that, and then they might have left. But in this, it's just kind of like see in 12 days, and then they go to the beach and everybody's just gone and they buy it. I just don't think a lot dumber.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

It's so it it's it's the hardest thing to swallow, right? I was sitting there and I was like, Hold up, why they just left? Like, why would you what are you doing? What are you talking about? You know, like there were thousands and thousands of people, like just hundreds of thousands of people. You and then they're all gone, and there's this mysterious item, and you're like, this bodes well. Like it just the timeline I would say didn't make sense. I also think Priam just like ignored it.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I think I feel like Priam's kids should have used like reverse psychology on him because clearly he's like my mom, where if you give him a certain kind of advice, he's just gonna go and do the opposite. So, like, like Paris should have been like, This is a great gift, let's keep it, and then Priam would have been like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe we should burn it.

SPEAKER_04 26:12

This son of mine, Paris, he has some terrible ideas.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

It's like the one time Paris was right, nobody believed him. Uh wait, speaking of, I like I really wish Cassandra had been in this. That's like the only character that I feel like I forget who the character is. Isn't she the one? I probably should like fact-check myself before I talk, but um, isn't she the one who like has prophecies and she tells everybody that like exactly what's gonna happen, but she's like cursed by the gods where she has like the gift of being able to foretell the future, but nobody believes her. I'm gonna fact check myself just in case. It's been a minute since I've actually I just remember like when I read the books and stuff, I really liked her character. Because uh relatable, honestly.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

Cassandra. Um but going back to like the fact that like so after 12 days, you're a seafaring city. You have a a wide view of the ocean from your doorstep. You didn't notice thousands of ships leaving your like like your beach. You didn't hear them. If they were just gone, you know, like oh, they I guess they left. You wouldn't like look into the distance like, but when did they go?

SPEAKER_03 27:24

You know, like you couldn't look at the horse and say, I've been in a boat before. That looks like boat stuff. Which is just the other part.

SPEAKER_04 27:36

What I actually like that, you know. I I like the the set design in this movie is really good.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Um the set design is is an incredible strength of this movie. There's like a bunch of scenes where I was just like, whoa, that's a really cool idea. Like when they they brought the tent or they they brought the the ship ashore, and there was a series of tents on top of the ship for Agamemnon's uh like throne room. Sick. Such a cool idea. The idea of using like driftwood from broken ships for the horse, which makes sense, that's what they would have, you know. It's a beach. Sick. I love it. But also like the actual construction and um execution of the horse, it's a really cool looking practical effect. You know, like it's it's not CGI, it's it's uh they made this wooden structure for this movie, and that is cool.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

I like that the horse looks like believable, like it's not like perfectly crafted, like it looks rough, you know, like it it's not some perfect looking horse. So and and uh yeah, I I did like that they used the the broken chips as the uh as the building material. I noticed that too, and I was like, oh wow, that's that's something I did I didn't think of like last time, but yeah, that was a good that that was a cool uh detail.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I was right about Cassandra. Okay, she's um Hector and Paris' sister. And apparently like she was actually the one who warned Priam not to open the or not to let the Trojan horse in. So they kind of give Paris her role a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Well, like yeah, because they needed someone to uh sleep with Achilles.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Paris?

SPEAKER_03 29:16

No, uh Bessie.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

You're talking about Berseus. I don't know if you're saying because Sangra doesn't sleep sleep with Achilles.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

No, I know she doesn't. What I'm saying is like I think that they weren't gonna put another female character in there. So like I think like that she kind of on the on the Troy side of female characters, like they kind of just chose one.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

Did they did they ever call Sean Bean's character Odysseus?

SPEAKER_01 29:42

No, I don't think they did. They don't they don't actually name him, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Yeah. I don't Sean Bean? Do they do they do they name him as Odysseus?

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Wait, what?

SPEAKER_04 29:51

When was that?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Um in the beginning. I'm pretty sure I I heard Odysseus.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

Okay, maybe I just missed it.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

They were like, maybe after this, one of us will go on an Odyssey, and somebody else is like, what does that mean? But they didn't have the word yet.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

It just means you're going it's it means you're going on that guy's ship.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

That's crazy that that like in ten years, losers.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

It's crazy that they name a book. He named a book um the Odyssey, and like the central character is Odysseus.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

That would be like if Dakota wrote a book about like his journey to work and he called it the Dakota.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

The Dakota.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

The Dakota.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

And then he was just on the bus, and you won't believe what he did.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Wait, did you when you were talking about the shifts before? Because I was like fact-checking myself, did you mention when they were all rowing and the big guy just grabs someone and tosses him for no reason?

SPEAKER_03 30:43

You gotta do that sometimes. You gotta motivate.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

I loved the scenes where just random side characters got wrecked for no reason. Like Dakota mentioned one with like the little boy that verbally got assaulted by Achilles. And like when they're rowing in, um, there's like that huge guy that dies relatively early on, and he wants to start rowing. And instead of being like, like tapping the person on the shoulder and being like, Hey, can I get in there? I want to row a little faster to keep up with Achilles, he just grabs the guy and tosses him over.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

He tosses him over his shoulder.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Like, that's one of the people you're about to be fighting with in a couple of minutes.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

I I turned over to Jen and I was like, How funny would it have been if this guy just like threw him over the boat and just like keep rowing? You know, like that's that's how deeply he wanted to get get to the beach. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

That would almost have made more sense, like let's lighten the boat.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

I guess, yeah, I guess that's a possibility. I thought

Fights On The Beach And Duels

SPEAKER_04 31:40

the fight choreography was really strong. You know, there was a lot of there was a lot of cuts in there. It wasn't a lot of like they didn't stay on the camera for long, but like the maneuvers made sense. Like they would interlock with uh like the shield placements, the spears would also kind of like move into the shield placements really nicely. The movements when they were battling, uh especially like the Hector and Achilles battle near the end, was uh really exciting to watch. Like they you could tell they had a really good like movement and and fight choreographer attached to the movie, which I appreciated.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah, when I was a kid, that scene where they all like interlock their shields on the beach, I just thought that was I remember being like mind-blown, like that is the coolest thing.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

We should go to school like this, guys.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

I was inspired.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Interlock our backpacks booze. Yeah, good stuff.

Costumes Hair And Makeup Highlights

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Uh one thing I wanted to talk about with this movie was um like you brought up the set design, which is fantastic. I was a huge fan of the costumes, hair, and makeup. Like the curly hair representation. I have curly hair. The curly hair representation was incredible in this film. At a time where you didn't see a lot of women rocking the curls in movies. If they were rocking the curls, it was always like a chaotic character that was a little bit like odd and different. This it's like all the graceful royal women rocking curly hair, and they all had like those little baby curly bangs that I wanted to try, but I was too scared to because I knew I didn't know what to do with them. And the makeup for both the men and the women, incredible. Smoky eyes, as far as the eye, as far as my eyes could see, everybody, everybody at this time in history mastered the smoky eye, smudged to perfection, concealers immaculate. It's it was great, honestly. Like when Hector's dying, Andromache's eye makeup is beautiful. She looked fantastic. Sure, her life was getting ruined, but my god, what an angel.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

I thought Paris' uh you mentioned it before I started watching it, and then I wa I am like, oh no. Like I just couldn't stop looking at everyone's eye makeup, which was very annoying. Because that's something I definitely don't pay attention to ever.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

So if I hadn't said it, would you have like not realized that everybody's wearing eyeliner?

SPEAKER_03 34:08

No, like it took me a while before like I didn't realize that JD Vance was wearing Eyeliner. When it's like I had somebody had to point it out, and I was like, oh I was like, look at that. See, that's more mascara. Yeah, I don't I barely know the difference. Uh so but no, I I did like I did think like the I agree the the sets were fantastic and the costuming was great. Um I I didn't have any issues or like think there was any historical inaccuracies. I did like when um when Brad Pitt smelled uh Bersitises. I can't remember I can't say her name, there's too many S's in that. Yes, Bersetus. Uh I when he smelled her hair and he said uh you must be royalty. And I just I just love that that that's to me like actually like a little like time periody thing, like you know, like hey, looks like you shower. You gotta be fancy.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

You don't smell terrible. You must be royal.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

You know, like herbal essence says, Oh my goodness, your family must have a lot of money. Like, I don't know. Is that Vidal Sassoon? You know, like I just love the identification there. So I I I like that stuff. I mean, I I thought he was uh for me his acting was a little I I he was a little flat. I did I didn't love like his eventual winning over of why do I have to keep saying her name? But anyway, you know I'm talking about the gal. Uh that it's just like you knew it was gonna happen, but I was just I I didn't care for it. I didn't think it added to the movie at all. It didn't make uh his death more impactful that he was doing the right thing, quote unquote. I didn't I didn't

Missing Gods And Better Adaptations

SPEAKER_03 35:43

care for that.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

I think it is weird though that like he they made such a big deal about him mocking the gods, like specifically Apollo. But like at the end of the like original, isn't it like he just gets hit in the ankle? It's not like Paris shoots him a bunch of times. It's literally just in the ankle, and it wasn't it kind of like Apollo like guided him to die. So like I thought it was weird that they kept bringing up his disrespect of the gods, but then he doesn't get the punishment in the end from the gods. But I guess like that might not have translated to the film as well. Like if he would have just got shot in the ankle and died, people would have been really confused.

SPEAKER_04 36:21

Yeah, so I think they needed to really they chose to go a much more sincere route. You know, they they they wanted to do like a real-ish version of the story that didn't involve the Greek pantheon. If they were to do something more akin to Apollo guiding him to death, I think you would need the physical entities to be present. To be present, at least in the background of scenes, you know, like watching over the battles or guiding these two characters to, you know, make out or whatever to you know, go off together.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Have you guys ever seen Hercules Legendary Journeys with Kevin Sorbo and Zina the Warrior Princess?

SPEAKER_04 37:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Okay. So Dakota has Anthony. Have you?

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Wait for the TV show.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

Hercules or Xena?

SPEAKER_02 37:13

I mean, maybe uh like uh like an episode or two.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Okay, alright. Let me tell you, friends, I was whoo boy. That's what got me into Greek mythology, was that show. And I think that like what Dakota, like, there's a level of camp, and they and they did have physical representations of the gods. Often, like there was a very over-the-top Aphrodite, and then the you know, very like menacing uh Mars. What did I say? Mars, Aries, and it really worked. It it was like so you know, I I think though the thing is the gods are so caricature-like that if you include them, it's hard to not include some kind of humor to balance them to make them more acceptable.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

I almost feel like they could have did something kind of like um The Passion of the Christ, where like in the scene there's like that big like trial scene, and you just have like Satan kind of like moving around through Isn't he like a baby at one point? It's like really creepy.

SPEAKER_04 38:16

No, he it's just like him holding his demons.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah, but yeah, I just picture like that creepy baby face. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Uh but the in you're talking about Impassion of the Christ when like he's moving around the crowds and inciting them to, you know, just blind hatred towards Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah, and I feel like this movie, like, they could have done stuff like that. Like you could have had, I don't know, even Paris and and Helen's whole like relationship just they seem so selfish and stupid in this movie, but if at the beginning you had some kind of like silhouetted feminine figure like moving around.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Yeah, it could have played out more like a Shakespeare story, like a Shakespeare tragedy sort of thing. Where are you getting like what Shakespeare I'm thinking of like Midsummer's Night Dream mixed with the idea of like there being players in the background of these stories guiding the narrative.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Yeah, that's what I was kind of imagining. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Paris also he dies in the story to uh to arrows. They're like poison-tipped arrows from Heracles, I think.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Yeah. I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

Yeah, so not a very faithful movie. But still a vibe. But still a vibe, you know. It they I respect what it did. Um, I I think that they they kind of went all out with the story that they had.

Crop Tops Baseball And Modern Parallels

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Uh I really think like this story does show us that we do need to bring back crop tops for ripped men. I think that that's something like Dakota, get ready the summer. No dad bought for you. We gotta get you in a crop top. You're gonna grow out your hair. You're gonna smudge a little dirt, a little eyeliner.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Um no comment, guys. Uh let's men in crop tops.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

It's what the world needs. It'll crazy.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

You know, the there is a craze sweeping MLB this year where um gentlemen are taking their shirts off and spinning them over their heads like a helicopter in large swaths, like whole sections of uh stadiums.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Hasn't that like always been a thing?

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Uh in sports, but maybe not in baseball. Baseball's more of a gentleman's sport. We don't uh usually take our clothes off. It's more of a thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Now people like chug beers out of their shoe and like yeah, that's different, you know. You know, hot dog and beer burning.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

So we don't do that kind of stuff. But uh yeah, yeah, soccer would do it, like you know, but the uh they're doing it at MLB now, actually. So maybe it's the summer it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yeah. You have to move through the crowds, Rich and influence them. Crop your shirts. You gotta bring like like little mini scissors.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

So so so I'll tell you that like I when I was going to you know, they do it at soccer games and like the uh it's the supporters section that does it, like the group of you know, guys who sing sing and dance the entire game and chant. And I uh we were always a section over or two, and I was I was always trying to get the guys, the older guys in the section, was like, come on, let's go, let's take our shirts off. But uh none of them would ever indulge me in said uh behavior. One time one guy did uh say he'd do it, and I had my shirt almost off, but he had a shirt under his jersey, which was a trick move. Oh, that's so offensive. Dirty trick.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

I I always love looking at Anthony's face whenever Rich finds a really creative way to tie in baseball to anything that we talk about. Anthony just always looks like he isn't gonna get this time back, and he doesn't understand why he agrees to do this every week. He just goes like I can't listeners cannot see it, but it's truly sad.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

Oh man. Uh

Final Grades And Real Troy History

SPEAKER_04 41:50

let's let's uh bring this pod to a close. I've unless you guys have something else to bring up about the movie. What are your final thoughts? Uh start with Anthony.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Um, Troy, it's it's a movie that that I like. I I will say it is maybe a little too long, but overall, like I I'm I don't I'm not gonna hate the movie for it. Um like I kind of agree with you uh Decotto when you said that it gets a little boring sometimes. But overall it's good. The uh the siege of of Troy, the Trojan horse, like you said, the choreography, the effects, practical, and and uh CG, like it's all really, really good. Um it's yeah, I definitely recommend it if if you guys have made it to the end of this episode and have not watched it, go and watch it.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Rich. Alright, so we're uh rounding third and heading home with our final thoughts here. I really I forgot how much I really did like it. I you know, I definitely saw it in theaters at least once. I think you probably saw it twice because I'm just thinking about the time period. So I was like 22 and not doing a lot of stuff. So this is definitely a movie I would have seen. Uh and I I when I watched it in preparation, like I had like a lot of it came back to me, like my hatred of Paris uh and Helen because the absence of of Aphrodite here. I think you know it was a it was a choice by a director, but I will say that you know it also what I think is kind of cool is like it gives Paris some character growth here, you know, it gives Helen some character growth as well, you know. Uh a little I mean I I don't buy hers as much, but I I feel like Paris's Paris has a little bit more, you know, he becomes more of a defender at the end when he says he won't leave his father's city, you know. That I thought that was really some courage. Yeah, he gets a little heroic there, you know. So uh, you know, tr poor Hector though, man. Whew. Like that's kind of my final thought on this. Like, you know, he's dumb, but I mean, man, he's just come on, like the breaker of horses. What what uh what happened here? But I I do uh I I recommend this movie. I mean I think that if you have the time, I think that's the only thing is it's it's really a luggage movie, you know. I if there's a if there's a you could definitely scroll a little bit as you're as you're going through some of it, you know, but I think uh it's definitely worth a watch. And if you're into like getting ready for the Odyssey, I think it's definitely something that uh you take a peek at, especially for the the cast alone. Jim?

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Um when I was a little kid I had a box of DVDs and this was one of the DVDs that I had. This was on my heavy rotation, and as I got older I started to realize that a lot of the DVDs, like the book the movies that I had loved, were really poorly reviewed by critics and fans alike. And I remember being like really upset when I found out, like, oh, nobody else liked this. Like I didn't understand why. Because I just I loved it as a kid. Um, another one that I really loved was Marie Antoinette, and that apparently, like, when they played it at um the Cannes Film Festival was booed by the French. They got up and booed it, like they hated it. And so it was it was really eye-opening seeing like the m like, especially historical fictions that I seem to gravitate towards, people just disliked. So I'm happy you guys all seem to enjoy it. When I suggested it, I was a little nervous. I was a little nervous, and um I'm happy. For me, it was very nostalgic going back and watching this, seeing all these characters that I had just like watched a million times probably before. This was like my Lord of the Rings, actually. I hadn't seen Lord of the Rings until I was an adult, and I think that this was probably the closest thing to Lord of the Rings I had seen.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

Definitely better than the lots of translations.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

That one everybody loved actually, like some people say it's their favorite film.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

I guess I'll go next. So not a lot of humor, but a whole lot of Hector. So if you like Eric Banna, this is a good movie for you. No, um Big Impressed with Brad Pitt, big unimpressed with Orlando Bloom, and moderately impressed with Eric Banner. So that's that's uh where I sit with the main actors of the Troy film. And uh I would say it's maybe like a top five X-Men movie for me.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

Um the uh the the X-Men touch was uh that that you know you didn't just MCU it. Nah, really nice, loved it.

SPEAKER_04 46:28

No, like uh Stryker was on top form.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

We had a Bruce Banner cameo.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

A Bruce Banner cameo. Uh yeah, we're we're bringing the whole party, the whole crew back for this one. No, I I actually really enjoyed it. I I really appreciated watching this film and experiencing something that I'm kinda you know, when you see something at this scale that underperforms, I mean it it did well in the box office, but when it underperforms critically, you know that's gotta hurt. And I I I kind of feel bad that this just went under the radar because you could tell there was a lot of love that went into this, the set designs were insane, the costumes were crazy, the makeup was flawless. Um and yeah, no, it was uh I I really enjoyed it. And to geek out about history a little bit before we go, the city of Troy was considered mythological for much of history. You know, like most people did not believe that Troy was a real place until like I think the late 1800s when they actually found the city of Troy beneath like six uh layers of civilization, basically, in a place in Turkey called Hisarlik. And so yeah, Troy was a real location. We don't know if this story has any truth to it, like the Trojan horse and like the Trojan and Sparta war. But if it did, there there is a location where it would have happened, and that's pretty cool. It's cool enough for me. Guys, thank you so much for listening to us here for our 162nd episode. Be sure to leave a juicy five star review wherever you're listening to this podcast, and stay frosty, my friends.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Goodbye, y'all the thing I forgot to say is I liked when like the whole crew would show up dressed in blue, like everybody in Troy would be like, time to don our blue outfits to go hang out together.