Project Hail Mary (2026)

A mission with impossible odds should feel cold, technical, and isolating, but Project Hail Mary ends up being way more heartfelt than you’d expect. It surprised us with humor, warmth, and a buddy dynamic that sneaks up on you and sticks. We break down the setup, the mystery-driven structure, and why Ryan Gosling works so well as a scientist who’s brilliant, flawed, and very human when the stakes are bigger than just him.

We also get into the science side of things, how the problem-solving and small details make everything feel grounded without getting overwhelming. And of course, we spend time on Rocky, who somehow becomes the emotional core of the story. The way the film brings that character to life through sound, movement, and some genuinely funny moments is one of its biggest wins.

Then we dig into the question we kept coming back to, what is the movie really saying about teaching and success? As teachers, we had some thoughts. We talk about whether the ending lands, what it means for Grace, and whether it feels earned or a little off.

If you’re looking for a Project Hail Mary review, a breakdown of Rocky, or just a spoiler-filled discussion of that ending, you’re in the right place. Subscribe, share it with a fellow sci-fi fan, and drop us a five-star review if you want more conversations like this every week.

Twitter handles:
Project Geekology: https://twitter.com/pgeekology
Anthony's Twitter: https://twitter.com/odysseyswow
Dakota's Twitter: https://twitter.com/geekritique_dak

Instagram:
https://instagram.com/projectgeekology?igshid=1v0sits7ipq9y

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@projectgeekology

Geekritique (Dakota):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBwciIqOoHwIx_uXtYTSEbA

Transcript

Intro And Hail Mary Jokes

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome back to Project Geek Cology. Today we are discussing another project. We are discussing Project Hail Mary. It's a movie and a book, though I don't believe any of us have read the book yet. But we will be discussing the adaptation that is currently in theaters. It's doing pretty big numbers, and a lot of people like it. Will we like it, folks? I'm gonna leave that for us to describe later in the podcast. But I am one fourth of your host, Dakota, and I'm joined as always with Anthony, and you know.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Would you say whether we liked it or not is a Hail Mary?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

I feel like you keep using the term Hail Mary incorrectly.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Uh I'm gonna give I'm gonna give Hail Mary thumbs up.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Uh Hail Mary's a long shot, so I mean whether or not we like it could be a long shot. It could be. Yeah, so it's Okay, alright. Um, but yeah, uh I'm going to toss a Hail Mary over to Rich.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

And I'm probably gonna drop it because I'm a Jets fan. But I'm still I I won't lie to you, I thought this was a movie about the New York Jets winning a Super Bowl. That's why they called it Project Hail Mary, because it was a long shot, but here we are. It was completely different than I expected. Uh, but we wouldn't be able to discuss this, just the three of us.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

And we are also joined by Hi, I'm Jen, aka Rocky. Rocky. Because you know everybody calls me Rocky back in the day.

Catching Up Florida And Titanic

SPEAKER_04 1:25

Back in the day, nobody called you Rocky. You didn't know me back then when they called me Rocky. Uh well, Rich, I'm glad that uh you were so excited to watch a Jets movie that got you to watching this movie, uh, which was for you unintended and unexpected. Uh, but I I'm glad that we are all on the same page and we watch the science fiction movie uh about going into the deep reaches of space, to the Tausetti system. Anyway, uh, what have we been up to these past two weeks? Because we took a week off. Uh Jen and I went to Florida. So I guess we'll we'll talk about what we did first. Jen, you and I went to Miami, visited some of the older family members of mine, as well as yours. And uh we actually got to hang out with Anthony for a bit. That was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

That was pretty fun. We watched baseball with Anthony and we got half off wings at the sandbar. Half off wing night, Wednesdays at the sandbar, Miami-Dade County. What a time to be alive.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

It literally sounds like David Lynch just was doing an ad for that bar. I don't understand what's guys! Wings half off. Miami, Florida! You wouldn't believe it. They're so delicious.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Damn fine wings. Coop, you wouldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_04 2:49

The dirty bearded men. Buffalo sauce all over the beards. No pie. No pie. Anyway, we had a good time hanging out with Anthony. That was the the day of the Artemis 2 launch, which is it kind of ties into the topic of discussion today because it's space related. We did not get to see it. We were we had our face full of wings at that point, and they decided to play the Yankee game boo on TV instead of the Artemis 2 launch, which I totally forgot was actually happening at the time. So I was happy actually to watch the Yankee game in the moment, but in retrospect, I was a little disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah, as they say, hindsight is 2020.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

We're rambling, guys. What else have we been up to?

SPEAKER_01 3:31

We obviously Well, you and I were just watching an incredible movie. Oh yeah. Dakota and I were just watching Titanic. And I said to him, I was like, oh my gosh, can you believe there was a time in our lives where I was a bigger James Cameron fan than you? And he brought up Terminator.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Yeah, and I was just like, is it possible that you liked Titanic more than I liked Terminator in the mid to late 90s? Is that possible?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

I think 100% yes. And I think you saw my quoting abilities. I haven't seen the movie in probably like a decade, and I can still quote many a line.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

My mom had to be.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

We've been married 11 years. We've never watched Titanic.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Whenever you actually like spoke a line ahead of a character, you spoke it wrong. So I think you can't.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

That's not true. That's false. Um, I would like the record to show he's a liar.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Alright, alright, I'll take it. Yeah, I'm watching Titanic. Uh, we are watching Titanic. I wanted to watch it because long live the timeline. Titanic happens in two days' time, April 10th, which we're recording on April 8th. So I wanted at least the launch of the Titanic on April 10th through the sinking of the Titanic on the 15th to be able to be mapped out in my notes so that I have it ready for when the time comes later this month. I'm having a lot of trouble with April. There's not a lot of at least titles that I've like gone through that occur in April for long live the timeline. My my project where I map calendar dates across fiction, and I can get at least six days with the Titanic, you know, six consecutive days of stuff that happened within fiction. And I call it fiction because Rose and Jack are fictional characters in a historical setting. So technically it counts.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

They're real to me. I would like the record to also show when Dakota and I were dating, we made a list of movies that we should watch together. And so we came up with this list together, like typing in different movies, oh, you have to see this, oh you have to see that. And we had been dating for like a while, and I looked at the list and I realized I had watched all of his movies, and he didn't watch any of mine. Well, I mean none. Not a single one. And so the problem was that all of his movies were like in in like packs of trilogies. So you had all of the Star Wars, all of Lord of the Rings, all of I mean Harry Potter isn't a trilogy, but you see, you're picking up what I'm putting down. Whereas I would just have like I think Losting Translation was literally on the list, and he never watched it until our podcast, I believe.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

No, no, no. We did watch that one. We did watch that one. Yeah, we watched that one, and we watched um, I think Breakfast at Tiffany's, and that's when I called it quits on your list.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

That's a good movie.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

That's gonna be my next one.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

I just I we just the only thing that's good about that movie is that it allowed there to be a song called Breakfast at Tiffany's. That's really the only thing that I I hate that song so much.

unknown 6:29

I hate that song.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

Let's let's move on. Anything else that we've been doing? No, I think that's pretty much it, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

You're back to school, you I've been fighting acid reflux, fighting for my life, but I don't think you guys want to hear about that. We'll move on.

Mario Movie And One Piece News

SPEAKER_04 6:42

It is a harrowing adventure, but yeah, uh Anthony, we'll move on to you. What have you been up to since we spoke last?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

I mean, we uh obviously we spoke that we got to hang out. Um I did see the uh was it Super Mario Galaxy movie? I actually I watched it in a way that would make Rich proud. I hopped on the Thousand Sunny and crossed the Grand Line to the New World and watched it that way.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

I love that Rich doesn't even watch One Piece like that, but he understands the reference.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Uh well he's been to the Grand Line, he knows what the Grand Line is.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

He at least has been to the Grand Line.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

So at least um Actually, speaking of that, good news, we did get news that uh season three is gonna be coming out next year. Yeah, so they're trying to at least I think it was I mean, could we we mentioned that that there's no way that they could do they they won't get far if they were doing two two to two and a half years at a time. There they were I would say the the furthest that they would have gotten it was Skypea if they were doing it that way, but you know, so uh that that was some good news. And well, actually, kind of going back a little bit to the media that Jen had you watch. I mean, I know you're talking about movies, but Jen should at least be proud that she brought you into the Avatar fold when I couldn't. She did. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

You had always been telling me that I needed to watch Avatar, but you weren't like a hype beast, you know? Like you weren't like, dude, you gotta sit down and watch this, you gotta sit down.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, she kind of pushed me to do that. I told you that, yeah, like I would tell you to watch it and just be like, you know, that it's good, you know?

SPEAKER_04 8:29

Um then you'd be like, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

But yeah, no. Um But yeah, no, it it there's that, and then I I got to spend what the weekend prior, like a week and a couple weekends ago. Um I was up in Orlando with some friends, and um, we got to we got to do some like exploring and went to some like arcades and was it uh Disney Springs and stuff, so yeah, that was fun.

Mets Opening Day And Games

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Excellent. What about you, Rich? What's new for you?

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Well, since we last spoke, I believe I was very hype. I was in the hype train because we were don't we were about to, I was hours away from going to City Field for opening day. I'm not gonna lie to you. Did you ever make it? I made it, my friend. I made it to opening day. And you know, I'm just gonna say I I I don't wanna it's a little crazy, but I you know. I just I looked to the heavens before I left my house and I said, we're playing Paul Skins, he's the best pitcher in baseball. Maybe we can win somehow. And the Mets knocked Paul Skeens, one of the best pitchers in baseball, out in the first inning. And we went on to romp and win. I got to see Cowbell Man, one of my favorite Met fans. First day, like I already got a picture with him. I don't I it's I usually wait till July to say hello to him. But uh he walked by he said, Hey! He's like, Hey, how you doing? And we took a picture together. It was fantastic. Uh but then you know it's the Mets. So um they do well and then they they pain you. So that's uh that's there. Uh what else? Since we last spoken, I'm Well, I we actually did go to see Mario uh Super Mario Brothers as a family. I just figured it would be an easy we had the week off from school, so I just wanted to pick something easy. And honestly, I think Charlie would have liked Project Hell Mary, which we'll talk about later, but it's just a little too long, I thought, for the fam at that juncture. Because I uh don't usually like to invest that much time unless I know it's gonna be something that we uh we enjoy. And uh what else? Um playing Marvel Ultimate Alliance again on the Switch, trying to like unlock I got Thanos, bro. You unlock him at like level 86, it's it's not fair, it's so much fun. Like I never thought I would have fun playing with Thanos, but he's just such an OP character when you unlock him that it's kind of fun. So been having a little bit of fun with that, and of course, I'm still playing uh MLB the show. I got very lucky within my first week I unpacked an Aaron Judge card, which is a highly valuable card to get. So it definitely makes my year of collecting easier because I already got one of the top top uh cards available in the game. Uh well on my way uh to forming my my perfect met team and a perfect uh collection of cards. Very excited, but not as excited as I am to throw it up, throw it deep, throw it down the sideline, and see if this one's in a stick. Will Project Hell Mary score a touchdown?

SPEAKER_04 11:29

Well, I'm glad you pulled the Aaron Judge card, but it's no Charizard.

The Five-Star Review Bit

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Um sorry. That's a juicy take. That's a juicy take, just like Voodoo Rangers, Juicy, Hayes, IPA, the official sponsor, unofficial sponsor of this podcast. And Anthony, what would you think people should do before we even before they even start listening to us? What what should they stop and do right now?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

They should stop and realize that we are not sponsored by Voodoo Ranger. Lies. But also to you know, keep in mind that one of these days voodoo ranger is actually gonna like comment like a cease and desist. And we're gonna be like, we're gonna be like, no, it's it's it's Rich's fault.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

But yeah, they should stop. Like that don't even listen to this discussion. Just stop right now and give us a five-star juicy review and then listen to it, and then just tell somebody else to give us a five-star juicy review.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

That's pretty juicy, actually.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah, but I'm just gonna go out on a limb here. We can't ask them 14 minutes in when we've just talked about our interests to review the podcast, guys. This is like the people that I hate on Amazon reviews. I'm a big reader of the Amazon reviews, and they'll like review the product before it even comes in or before they use it. Or even if they gifted it to someone else, they'll be like, I gave this to my daughter and it's great. And it's like, your daughter lied. It's if it's a gift, she probably wasn't honest. That doesn't help me.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

No, no, no. But my my my favorite is when they review it because they gave it a bad review because it came too late.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Yeah, maybe they're reviewing things this time because they simply forgot to last time, and we're just reminding them because you can actually usually only rate and review the podcast once on most platforms based on the show, not on the episode. So, like we could crap the bed here, but we're still a five-star podcast. That's the ticket. That's the ticket right there.

Mario Vs Mario Pronunciation

SPEAKER_04 13:27

I want to pause really quick and ask you guys about how uh Super Mario Galaxy was or Super Mario Galaxy was, depending on your region of living. I don't know how to end that sentence. Uh depending on what state you're in, it's either Mario or Mario. But uh yeah, what what outside of that conversation, what did you guys think? I love it. Hold on. Oh, okay. He went to the theater. He is a pirate, actually, so I'll let him answer.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

I um I thoroughly enjoyed it. Uh but for me, it's like the smallest tiny things, right? Like the bomb mouse uh being in the club. It's just like little like the little tiny characters that get love in the background. Uh, whether uh it's just like I love the movie because every time I'm looking at the screen, it's like they I mean they member berries you a lot, but man, it feels like I'm rewarded for having played like every single Super Mario Brothers game that's ever been released. Like I it it just it was a delight. Uh Charlie had a good time because I mean he doesn't know the world as much, but he you know, he just has fun, and then and then my you know Lauren loves you know like Jack Black and the voice actors in it and she gets into it a little bit and she remembers some of the stuff from when she plays Mario Kart. So it's just like top to bottom. I mean, I saw some people like panning it online. I don't understand like what you're looking for, like it's a it's a cartoon movie about a video game, just like have a fun time, man. And like if you just go and just like hey, I just want to see this video game come to life. You know, the only thing I gotta say I don't like is that I think Chris Pratt is a coward, and uh I don't know why we don't get a it's a me, a Mario! Like uh just one or he seems to have toned down the Italian stereotype. Did you just say it's a me Mario? It's a me, a Mario. Oh no, do I say it the right do I say it the way you guys say it when I say his voice? You do, yeah. But then I call it something different. That's weird. Alright, I'm so flummoxed, I'm gonna throw it over to Anthony.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Welcome to our side, Rich. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

I wanted to comment on this like Mario and Mario debate because the other day Rich and I were talking and I couldn't remember how I said it. And I can't I realized the issue the other day, and that I told Dakota and he told me to say it here. But basically, I think when I was a child, I would say Mario in relation to the character and in relation to the ices.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Like those cops of icy I would call Mario.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Mario's, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

However, in my like late teens, early twenties, I met a human being, a real live human, that went by Mario, and so I called him Mario. And that's why I couldn't remember how I said it anymore. This all came to me the other day. It was like quite the epiphany. Real soul searching stuff I do.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah. I'm a very introspective and deep thinker.

SPEAKER_04 16:36

That must have really uh thrown you for a loop there, man.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yeah, it was like my whole world came crashing down on me. I'm surprised you didn't crash your car. Was I driving? We were on the phone when I said that. Yeah. Well, probably almost did. Sorry, Anthony, you can share your perspective now.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

Uh did you like the movie, Ant?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Um, yeah, I had a good time. And yeah, I know that people have been panning it online. Um, I guess for like the the story. But the thing is, is that like I never took the Mario story like serious. I mean, you're an Italian plumber that's like jumping on like mushrooms, going through pipes.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

That's many of our realities.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Like, it's like, yeah, for real. It's like not even real. And I don't know, that that that's that's why like my relationship with like online reviewers and stuff is just I take it with a grain of salt. I'm like, let me go check it out myself, or let me go to somebody that I know won't, you know, that might not have like some sort of monetary bias in it. I mean I checked uh but I you know I ended up watching it and yeah, no, I had a fun time. They definitely you know had like a expanded Nintendo universe thing going on, so that was really cool. There's some cool fan service in there, you know. I don't know, yeah, I enjoyed it. I had fun. It was a good it was a fun watch.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

I haven't seen it yet. I do want to see it, but it's just I'm not like itching to see it, I guess. But I what I will throw into that conversation of whether it needs to be a great movie in terms of like storytelling and everything. I don't think it needs to be, but it if it can be, I think it should at least attempt it. And I kinda think about like the Toy Story movies, like they're movies about toys coming to life. Those are some of like the best movies of all time. Just like go to the Run Tomatoes, it's like 99%, 99%, 99%.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Right, right. But they they came out like that. Whereas like Mario came out actually originally started off as jump man in the Donkey Kong.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

In a donkey con. Yeah, but no, what I'm saying is, but like can you make a good movie out of a Mario movie? Can that be a good movie? And I don't know. I I thought the first movie was pretty good. Um so I don't know, food for thought. Maybe maybe a good Mario movie, a really good Mario movie, would be a Hail Mary. None of us are using this this term correctly.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Am I unclear of how to say this?

SPEAKER_04 19:20

Like, I feel like I don't know, you use it in a sentence.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

I don't know, now I'm struggling. This is like the Mario thing. Now I no longer understand how to say this.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I mean, we're not you uh using it wrong.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

Wrong, but like we're not using it well.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Right, right, yeah, yeah. I was like, I mean, technically is it a long shot? You know, yeah, but is it, you know, like I don't know, it's it it is it's a toss-up, you know. Are we using Hail Mary? It's a Hail Mary.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Well, you know what was You know what was a Hail Mary? The mission that they sent this teacher Grace on. That was a Hail Mary for the human race. And not only the human race, but other civilizations, including the Iridians. He is that that is it that was their race, right? Iridians was uh Rocky's race?

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah.

First Impressions And Ryan Gosling

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Okay. So yeah, let's uh let's talk about the premise of this movie a little bit, get into what we liked, what we didn't like, and then we can go back to the Mario discussion. Uh just kidding. Guys, I I actually really like this movie. I was kind of speechless when I left the theater in a in a good way. Like I didn't have a whole lot to add to the conversation once I saw it, but I was just pleasantly satiated, I guess, you know, after having seen just a good movie in theaters. You know, it was really fun to just watch the mystery unfold, watch the story unfold with uh this it's literally like a one-man act, the the the majority of the film. And I think Ryan Goss Ryan Gosling killed it. You know, it was it was just so fun to watch him making the connections, learning Rocky's language, and uh eventually like saving the day and coming into like going from zero to hero essentially.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

I also enjoyed this movie. I thought it was um really fun. When like we first kind of decided on it, I was like, oh man, I have to go to the movie theater, which I mean Dakota knows like I always like we used to go to the movies all the time, but being pregnant, I get like uncomfortable easily, I have to use the bathroom a lot, so I was like, Am I gonna be a problem? But I actually like had such a nice time. I also when I found out when it was like two hours and thirty minutes, I was like, that's long. Made it the whole way through, not to brag, no bathroom breaks. Can't say the same for Dakota, can't say the same for him. I had a brown, I have a child pushing on my bladder, and I was like, I was so engrossed that I forgot all my worries.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

You forgot your child?

SPEAKER_01 21:54

No, he was kicking me most of like a decent amount of the movie because I was drinking soda and sugar get some height. But I really did like the movie. I found like for a movie that's mainly just with one actor, I found it really entertaining and engrossing. Um Ryan Gosling obviously is a sight to behold, but also just his acting skills are like really good. He's just he was very likable in a not trying to be like a super manly man or like a super heroic character. He was actually kind of a coward, which somehow made him more interesting.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

What did you guys think?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Well, I was the first one to actually see this movie. And I had been kind of keeping an eye on it for a while. It looked interesting, and you know, when I started, like literally like everybody was like raving about it, I was like, you know what, let me go and check this out. And you know, kind of like you guys, I was really happy like leaving the movie theater because like it was like visually like very like it was awesome, like visually, you know, the just the different sometimes like there were like scenes where there were like really cool colors and yeah, like you said, the the story uh Ryan Gosling. Like I'm really surprised with I don't know, like we I guess in a way you're kind of used to like some of his older roles where he would play like a certain type of character and mentally you kind of typecast him, but I feel like recently he's been picking roles that are really like good and he or he'll do roles that you don't expect him to like do well in and he's like blowing it out of the water. He's playing a scientist in this movie and he makes it believable that he is a scientist, you know?

SPEAKER_04 23:45

He also makes it enjoyable, yeah. Right, right. He's uh he's he's still got humor, he's still got his snarkiness.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

The situational irony of the entire like thing about like he's he's the one guy in the universe that they sent and he's just a school teacher is pretty funny.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah.

Teacher Tropes And Career Respect

SPEAKER_04 24:02

You know, we we have some school teachers on on the podcast here, so let's let's uh let's start over to Rich. He hasn't said a single word about this movie. Thumbs up or thumbs down?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

I think I gotta talk it out with you guys. So the I know it's now that it I learned after I watched that it's based on a book. Right. So my perfect movie time, unless it's look, uh you know, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars can go as long as they want, because I just want that entire universe all the time, right? So I just want more and more and more and more and more. Uh but when it comes to like a standalone like this, usually two and a half for me is just a little bit in that range where I'm getting a little bit antsy. I'll be honest with you guys, I've never really been into like space movies. Let me explain. Like any of those movies where like, you know, it's like really following astronauts or like, you know, and like the I feel like I've seen that like living alone thing. Uh what is it, the Martian with Matt Matt Damon, I think I saw a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

And uh that's by the same author.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Oh, it is. Oh, look at that. Uh Andyware, so it's like I've kind of seen the solitude. You know, like that solitude, you know, of of being in space and things like that. Like I thought it's gonna be very tropey in that way. And I think that it kind of won me over by the end. But I was I I did fe I yeah, it was a rocky start, but I think uh, you know, by the end I uh I came away liking it. Like I said, like I I didn't feel I guess the best way to say it is like I re I enjoyed it, but I don't think I would go back to the theater to watch it a second time and pay full price tickets, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Sure. Okay. Wait, I have a question for Rich. Rich, did you think that this film was good or bad PR for teachers?

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Well, it's weird. It's you know, obviously obstensibly it's a teacher, so it's like, oh look, teachers can be really bright and do these things, right? But there's also kind of an undertone to it, like that he got scared of his future and like retreated to teaching, you know, like as a as a heidi hole. And um then it kind of promotes this idea that like, you know, teachers are failed at other professions, so they they kind of those who can't do teach. Yeah, you know, and I don't like like I I like his management style, I like him as a teacher, you know, like that appealed to me. I thought he was great in that role, but I do think that in some ways, if you really look at it closely, it does I think a little bit of a disservice to teachers. Just this kind of idea that like I've I'm gonna hit 20 years next year. Like I this is my profession. Like I enjoy it. I'm I would hazard to say not so bad. Like I I I don't know. And it's and I said it to somebody else. Somebody asked me the other day over break, they said, Oh, are you still teaching? And I giggled and I said, I got no other skill, like this is my skill set, you know. What do you mean? Like, what else would I be doing? You know, like what do you what do you mean? I just gave it up after 15 years, you know? So it is a little bit annoying to kind of hear this idea that, you know, like, or this notion that, you know, it it's teachers are, you know, teaching is a fall back, a fallback position. That that's a that's yeah. One of the coolest things is one of our own students will be, you know, like, hey, I want to be a teacher. Like, I had there's a student in our district, or sorry, I shouldn't say student, uh, the young woman now in our district who teaches at one of the not the high school, but she teaches at one of like the middle school, or I think it's actually one of the the primary schools, and she was a student in my class, and now she's like back in the like she knew she wanted to be a teacher, and she came back to our district and she's doing great work down there, you know, and I I don't know. But I I think that's probably a teacher lens. I think that most people would walk away and be like, oh no, he's a teacher, and it's like, you know, like I think they would very surface-level think that it's promoting, but I think it's actually slightly denigrating.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah, I felt the same way. Like, there was one scene where he's like sitting looking all sad, and he's like, I'm a failure. I I'm a teacher at a middle school, and it's like, that's like my job. What? Unless it's the only saving grace in PR for teachers for me is that at the end he decides to become a teacher on Rocky's planet, and it shows like he genuinely does just love doing this, and that it's not like he doesn't feel like a failure anymore, and he decides like he doesn't even really know if he wants to go back to Earth because he's enjoying what he's doing there so much. That was the only like saving grace for me at the end, but there were periods of time in this movie where I was like, Why are they putting my career path down? Like, what in movies it's always like professors are like the real teachers and they're the ones that are really cool that like everyone looks up to and goes to to like solve their problems and their like like crimes or not crimes, um, solve their solve their mysteries like professor solve my crimes.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Uh and professors are the you know the Indiana Jones of the world.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

That's what I like. It's like if you're a professor, that's great. But if like they didn't make Indiana Jones a high school teacher, that would have been kind of cool too, you know. Let's not let's not lie though.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

There in terms of like the hierarchy, I you know, I'm I'm speaking as a high school teacher, I'm not gonna lie. I started in middle school, I did my time there, my first four years, I taught sixth, seventh, and eighth grade. Listen, it is, ladies and gentlemen, a whole different animal. All right, yeah, no, it's you you have to have a lot of love in your heart. I don't have that much love in my heart anymore. If I were, if tomorrow my boss said, Hey, next year you're gonna be teaching down at the middle school, I said, Hey, next year you guys are gonna be looking for a new teacher because I wouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Yeah, no, it is it is so and it does feel like you can't sit down, like you need to be walking, like you they need to feel your presence at all.

SPEAKER_04 30:09

Bring it back in. Sorry, we're talking about teaching.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, you can't talk about watching wires that much, electrician.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

I could talk about wires all day. You look, you want me to talk about wires?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah, actually, he connected the wires. Like, I want you to talk about wires connected to your fields.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. He uh he definitely when he was being given uh that bridge to cross ships to start communicating with Rocky, he you know, he unplugged all the lights in his ship, he re-plugged them in elsewhere. It was fun. Yeah, I don't have much to say about that. But actually, I do want to talk a little bit about when he actually goes and first confronts Rocky's ship. I thought that was such a charming sequence of him just like, nope, I'm out of here, and he just goes home and Rocky just follows him, and then even like the the small bursts of like jet jet fuel that he he expends and and Rocky follows him with a doot doot. I loved that. I think and the moment that Rocky first sends him a message, like he throws, like he has a robot send a message over to his ship, as it's about to hit his hole, he goes, Shields up! And and the uh the ship goes, We don't have shields, and he's just like, Why not? I I laughed so hard. As soon as he said shields up, because I knew that didn't exist in this world, but like it was it was so funny. It was so funny.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

I liked when they when uh Rocky threw like a second one and like he like realizes it, he's like, Oh, they must think I'm an idiot.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Would you like to do a spacewalk? Yeah, I I really did like the humor wasn't like overstated, like it wasn't a comedy by any means, but the juxtaposition of Rocky and Grace was really, really enjoyable.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Do you I I know it's based on a book, so maybe I'm out of line here. But you guys know how I feel about flashback stuff. I think I've made myself very clear on this podcast. Who I'm not a fan of narratively leaning on flashback. Do you think that we need the flashback? Do you think it had to be presented in the way it was? Like, do we need this idea that he was you know, he was drugged essentially and and forced on the mission?

SPEAKER_04 32:25

Yes. Right?

SPEAKER_00 32:26

I think we do need that like why is he up there? I I don't I think like I I feel like the flashbacks are necessary. Can't we do it?

SPEAKER_03 32:34

But like I don't think that it didn't make me go like, oh gosh, is that why he's here? Like they could have done it from start to finish, and I think I would have been I didn't need like the reveals didn't make it more or less interesting for me. I feel like if they would have just done it chronologically, I would have been fine. Like they could have started the movie, this is happening, and then they you know they drug him and they put him on there, and then he wakes up, you know.

SPEAKER_04 33:02

Like, I don't necessarily think I see where you're coming from. I think that is coming from a personal bias against flashback narratives, but it the way that it presents information, it presents what you need to know from the past exactly when you need to know it in the present. So if they had done it linearly, it wouldn't have felt as connected, it wouldn't have felt as timely, and ultimately it wouldn't have been as well told, basically, because we start at a point where we know nothing, and the character knows nothing, you know, and that's that's a rare point in narrative fiction because you as the audience have prepositional awareness that the character doesn't, you because you're seeing from the outside looking in, you're often able to know things that the characters don't. So by the unfolding of events, you grow to learn more as he presumably, they actually never say whether or not he's learning memories from the past, but presumably he's remembering things as they come to him so that he can complete the mission that he needs to complete. But so I I'm of the mindset that the flashbacks didn't ruin it for me. And there they I I also am not a fan of flashbacks, and I didn't not I didn't feel that they were a crutch for this one because of the way that they presented information. It felt natural.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

You know what I think it is a little bit for me, and it maybe it's just the difference between narrative on paper and narrative in movies, right? I find that this is the flashback technique is very much an like a novel construct. Okay, and I think that in part of that's because you don't have the visuals that can just like montage stuff away or whatever. And I I think that sometimes and I I guess it's sticking to the book, right? But it does follow a narrative structure that to me is like more akin to a novel a little bit, and that I think that happens in One Piece than even Naruto, right? Because they started as manga, right? So that there is kind of like this this technique that I think doesn't have to be used as much in the movies, but again, it's my probably my own personal bias. So I'll let us move on.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

Yeah, at the end of the day, it's it's just a narrative, it's a storytelling technique, and I do think it does generally work better in novel form, but I don't think that this movie was at all hampered by the flashback sequences, and I I think that it was the right amount of because they weren't long flashbacks, it was maybe like a minute or two each, but they were just long enough to give us another piece of the puzzle as to basically like why did he end up in space? And I think that knowledge is what keeps most people interested, you know, like that you know, dangling that idea of like, well, why is this guy the one that's doing it? And that's not really revealed to us until maybe three-quarters of the way into the movie fully.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

But right, because it was originally supposed to be somebody else that went up, and you're like, wait a second, if this guy was supposed to go up, then how is how is Grace up here then?

SPEAKER_04 36:15

And I I do like the idea that they reveal that he's basically a coward right before he makes a decision to not be. Like he he makes a decision to, or actually, I believe they reveal that he was a coward and that he got drugged to be on the ship right before he kind of fails at something in the present, in space, and then that kind of like double whammy of wow, this guy isn't that great at you know, he's probably not gonna be able to do this, whatever. We know as the audience that he's going to be able to, because that's how the movie has to end. But in the moment, you feel wow, this guy's powerless, but then he overcomes that fear, that cowardice, and enter in introduce introduces uh like his bravery arc, he becomes the hero.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

I guess kind of like not to get biblical. Sorry, I didn't I didn't mean to cut you off. I think I was done.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

I was rambling, go ahead. Yeah, blurless guy.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

No, I was gonna sorry, I was gonna say uh not to get like biblical, but this is basically like the story of Jonah, kind of. I didn't think like it was just you saying that that made me think of that, how he's like told to go to Nineveh and then he's like no, and he tries to run away and then he gets swallowed by a whale. Except this guy got roofied and that's his whale.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

Oh wow, that's a really good comparison. I had not thought of that at all, but yeah, it is very similar to the Jonah.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Like just the characterization of like somebody who it was a chosen one in a way. I mean, he was like a default chosen one because everybody else went kaboom, but rest in peace, my granny. Rest in peace those astrodests.

Meeting Rocky And Building Friendship

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Alright. What did we think of Rocky, guys?

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Oh, yeah, there's so much to say about Rocky, but I'll let you guys go first.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

We we need to talk a little bit about Rocky. Uh, Anthony, I feel like you need to on your Zoom call, you are the Rock and Rolla. So I want uh you to talk a little bit about Rocky, and um I think Rocky was pretty much the reason we decided to do this podcast, right? You brought up this uh lovable character named Rocky, and we were like, all right, let's do it next week. We'll cover Product Tell Mary next week.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah, ra Rocky's awesome. It's crazy how much you can connect to a character that literally has like no face. It's just a walk, it's a rock with limbs. But the fact that when you realize that like, you know, Rocky is a scientist that is there for the same reason that Grace is, and Rocky's the one that like realizes this first, you know, like he's like he's the one that's communicating like why he's there. Because obviously he's like, okay, there's a there's another ship that I don't know what this is, it has to be for the same reason, you know. And Rocky, oh my gosh, I and when you get to the point to where like Grace sets up the translation between him and Rocky, it's just it's I don't know. I love how they just establish this awesome professional like relationship, but it becomes a friendship, and it's like they yeah, and they get to know each other about their worlds. Rocky gets to know about Earth, and then eventually Grace gets to you know experience a bit of of how you know Rocky's world is first through the ship and then obviously going to to uh Rocky's like planet, but yeah, man, no Rocky just top ten adorable faces creatures, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

I want to comment on the character design of Rocky as well. As someone who's read a lot of the like like art of Star Wars books, shout out to my homie Phil Schozak, um, who writes a lot of them. But though like I I've read a lot about, especially with Grogu, like how they designed Krogu and how difficult it is to like nail down a character design and how many different you know ideas they go through before they kind of settle on one face and like overall look. Star Wars, especially with Grogu, was very like when they're designing characters are very focused on like the silhouette. I actually have this here. You know, like Grogu has like the big ears and like the super round face, and it makes his silhouette extremely recognizable. And even like the positioning of the ears is distinguished from Yoda. And that goes for all of the like a lot of the or a lot of the Star Wars creatures um have very recognizable silhouettes. With Grogu specifically, they wanted to make sure that he looked super cute, so that like young people and old everybody would like him. And so they designed him to look kind of like a baby. And that's kind of like I I read an article once called The Science of Cute, where if you want to make a character cute, you give them like big eyes and a tiny mouth, and so that way they look more like a baby and a very round face. And Grogu perfectly fits that description, which is why everybody just like loves him. And if you look at the books, I mean they had some really like two-baby-like choices that were kind of creepy and weird. But what I like about Rocky is that he's extremely adorable. A, as you brought up Anthony, without a face, and B, his like silhouette isn't super recognizable. Um, he's kind of like an arachnid, but he's also just like a rock, like he doesn't even have like fingers really. Um and I don't know, it's just you kind of like think about the droids like BB8 or R2 and how they have that very distinguished silhouette. And I think they made Rocky's personality shine so much and his like mannerisms so interesting and cute that you just have to love him. But I I think they did it in such a different way than you know, character designs that I've seen in the past. I think he's really memorable too.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Yeah, I think you'd be hard-pressed to actually draw Rocky. Yeah, like if he tried to draw Rocky from memory, he'd almost look kind of like a spider, which isn't necessarily cute, but it's it's the mannerisms that they give him, the uh the way that he moves, um, and just pure likability. I think that the voice that they chose for him in the end. I thought they were gonna go with Meryl Streep, but I was just like, as soon as he said she can do anything, um, I was just like Oh my god. I thought they were doing Meryl Streep, but no, then I'm glad with the voice that they chose for Rocky. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

And even even NASA likes Rocky on a recent Instagram post. They put amaze, amaze, amaze.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Yeah, yeah, no. Rocky is just Rocky, even like the way like when you see him run, you know, it's like Oh, and he was like bumping into everything too. Yeah, it's and then and then I I I think that like what really sealed it for this character is he essentially almost he almost sacrificed himself to save Grace. He has to stay contained within I think what ammonia.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Um it smelled like ammonia.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Yeah, it was like ammonia, but it was like a xenon. It was like yeah, it was a xenon?

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Yeah, I think it was yeah, I think it was because the it was something that that xenophage was going to like eat, and like that's his whole ship was like made of it.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

And yeah, like I think it was astrophage, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Yeah, uhstrophage.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

Wasn't Astrophage like Astrophage was the alien compound that they were trying to figure out how to stop.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Uh yeah, that was uh eating the sun pretty much.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

But he Rocky is like a xenon based life form. But uh Yeah. Uh Rich, what did you think of Rocky?

SPEAKER_03 43:52

I thought he was really cute. At first I um I you know sussed out he's I'm supposed to like him, you know, like whatever. And uh I think I was a little hesitant at first, but uh I think that he won me over uh as it went on. Uh you know, I I love idiomatic expressions being misunderstood, whether it's rush hour or whatever, you know, any kind of movie where s somebody uses a phrase and the other person doesn't quite speak the language, you know. And I I just there were a couple of instances of that where he's like, What are you talking about, Grace? You know, like that he he just was, you know, and then and then Grace, you know, we're so used to trying to to use these phrases, and we're so used to everybody understanding them, you know, that when somebody now says it, you know, you're when when you have to explain it, you're like, Oh, uh well, how do I explain that? You know, I mean it's kind of right.

SPEAKER_04 44:49

You know, I mean, how do you explain why fist bump is different than fist my bump?

SPEAKER_00 44:56

I like it when Grace was like testing his hearing because like he was like recording and he's like, He can he can hear me. Oh, and he's like and then he like starts to like whisper like and he's like, Can you hear me? I can.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Yeah, that that I think that's like the yeah, like he started to get me. And you look, I I won't even like I have to admit this. I have to admit it. I don't think I liked Grogu at very first. I was like, Oh, you just you're just trying to make me like him. He's so cute. How am I not gonna like him? Uh and then But like why even like have that mentality?

SPEAKER_04 45:30

Why why go into it with that mentality? I'm I'm a I'm struggling there, like, oh man, there's they're they're trying to make me like this character.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Yeah, wait, are you gonna do that with my son? Like uh man, Dakota Jenner trying to make me like this kid. I just don't trust him. I don't know what he's gonna become. I don't trust him.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

I already like Willie become a Yankee Smith. That's already been decided. Uh let's not get into that on the show. But no, you know what it is? I mean, I you know, we're both English teachers, right? We're literature, like I I think that I I do analyze in in some circumstances, I do start to kind of suss out like what the author, what the director is trying to do. And sometimes I'm if I'm being handed something, I'm more of a a hesitant uh little pup. I won't just grab it from your hand. I'm like, what is that? Am I supposed you know, and it's like why am I like why am I supposed to like this? Why is it being presented this way?

The Science That Sells It

SPEAKER_04 46:21

Does it work that's how I feel about Super Mario movies? What? I don't that's how I feel about the Mario movie, the first one at least, you know. Like I I didn't want to just blindly like it. I had to they had to win me over. One thing that I really thought was I like the science of the movie. I thought that I don't know anything about molecular biology or anything like that, but I like the physics of how they made certain things work. Like how Grace had his ship spin a certain speed so that he could create artificial gravity, and then Rocky did the same on his ship so that they didn't have to just float in space. I thought that was brilliant. I loved little things like that to me made the believability just so much stronger because it would make so much more sense than just there being artificial gravity on a 21st century Earth ship. I I I think that that's so cool. I did think it was interesting that after the the second time that Grace visited Rocky, the second time the uh the bridge was built, he Rocky knew that uh he was uh he needed H2O. Or not H2O, he needed oxygen to be able to survive in that bubble. And I thought that was really interesting because that shows that he has some knowledge of other races and other planetary uh systems to be able to replicate certain atmospheres, even though Grace wasn't like able to truly tell him like what the periodic table, you know, like what he needed from the periodic table to survive. He was able to do that research somehow on his own, or he already knew that information. And I thought that that was kind of a an interesting uh concept, but it was kind of juxtaposed with the fact that like their species didn't know what radiation was. So like there's certain things that like you should have some understanding of if you're like an interstellar species, and I'm I'm glad that they were able like Rocky was able to like be that, like he was able to create the oxygen for his buddy Grace, but he didn't know what radiation was, which just kind of I I feel like you would discover that along the way at some point.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Well, we don't know like what their planet is like, like we discovered it here because of stuff going on here. That's true. But like we don't know what they've been up to.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

Yeah, they've been up to Spider World, their their spider rock world.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

What I didn't like was like when he went to Rocky's planet and we didn't get to see any of it, just like this version of Earth that they simulated.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

Like I kind of I was I was a little confused at first. I think you're supposed to be a little confused because you just assume that oh he made it back to Earth, or or is this like a is he back on his holodeck essentially where he's like experiencing these visions with Rocky? But no, he's on a beach and he's on Erid, I think the name is the the planet. But yeah, thought that was cool. I did think it was uh falling back to you know, he's able to create artificial oxygen for Grace. When Grace realizes that the Astrophage Predator is like eating through the Xenon-based compartment, he realizes that he needs to go back and save his buddy Rocky. He needs to go back to Rocky's ship, and I love that scene so much. But if Rocky is capable of creating oxygen to that scale so quickly, could he not also have contained them with some other element?

SPEAKER_00 50:15

I think the issue was um realization. Like it might have been too late before he realized that it was being eaten through. And I think that the I think the spread would have been a little bit more rapid because of the fact that everything was like xenon for his ship.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

Yeah, that's a good point, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

But wasn't it also just like the size of his ship and like how kind of like Anthony said when he realized it and also like where exactly would he need to kind of like put the plug? Kind of like when the bees were getting into our house. We had a bee problem last year, and like bees were just showing up, and we didn't know where they were coming from.

SPEAKER_04 50:58

Yeah, this conversation is going in weird directions.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

Um the bees But now I need to know like, did you vacuum the bees? Did you find the bees?

SPEAKER_04 51:06

No, we never found them, but they all died in the house. But we don't know how they're getting in.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

That we never figured out how they were getting into the house, but we found out how they were getting into the walls. It was through like a light that wasn't sealed correctly on the outside. But I mean, and that took us a really long time. So with Rocky's time frame, he doesn't really have to be. And the fact that these are like the you know, the what are they called? The astrophysics astrophage. The astrophage, they're a lot smaller than bees.

SPEAKER_04 51:34

Microscopic even.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Yeah, and his ship's a lot bigger than our house.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Um that would have been a lot of a lot of holes to plug for just uh one being.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Yeah, for just one Rocky.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

I did like the scene when uh Grace went over to Rocky Ship. That was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Oh, like a Yeah, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

That and my thing was sometimes they like traveled away from the laptop and I didn't know how they were communicating.

SPEAKER_04 52:00

Was the laptop in that suit because they were like I think yeah, he was able to port it into that suit or or whatever, but and actually there was there were scenes where he wasn't translating, like the computer wasn't translating Rocky, but he understood Rocky.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Was that just like they're kind of like how I could understand my cat?

SPEAKER_04 52:19

Probably. That could have been it. Let's uh let's get it. Oh yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

No, no, I was just gonna say, jumping on like what Dakota said about Rocky, like the way that he spoke. I do like that his like his that his the way that he would communicate was like more it was almost like music based in a way.

unknown 52:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Yeah, like even his girlfriend.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yeah, like the names, like his wife's name.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

That and then and then like when He even did a little like dance every time he said There was that and he would like rub, rub up on his like arm. And it was kind of like an instrument.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

You know, it was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Wait, Rich, when we start like leaving work, can we start doing that?

SPEAKER_04 53:09

No, don't do that. It's weird.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_04 53:11

Everyone's gonna think you have like a disease or something.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

They're gonna think Rich and I are starting a colony of lepers.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

I mean, like it wouldn't I don't think anyone would even think anything twice of it if they saw me doing it. It's just like oh is Rich doing something weird.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

We should start doing it to Emily and not explaining 100%.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

No, I'm on board. Yeah, yeah. I think if we can we should get Greg on board because then she'll be triple confused if Grumpy Greg is rubbing his arm.

SPEAKER_04 53:35

Yes There was a a few times where I was like deeply emotional, and I think that's something that I really appreciated with this movie. Was able to kind of run run you through the gamut of all the emotions. You had a lot of humor, you had a lot of like heartbreak, you had the bittersweet goodbye, you had you know like the the traumatic moments where you you mentioned it earlier, Anthony, where like Rocky almost like dies, and it's such a vis like they almost don't show you how bad it is. Like it's almost like in like fragmented clips you see just like smoke rising off of Rocky as he's clearly dying. It's it's super traumatic and they barely show you. And I think that that is like the key there. It just makes you like you're just like looking for him, you're just looking to see if he's okay, and they don't show you, and it keeps you on the edge of your seat. So a lot of the movie I'm on the edge of my seat. And then you know, the the turning point, you know, like the turning point for the movie isn't when they discover how these astrophage can be, you know, controlled. It's actually like when he, Grace, decides that he basically like he doesn't need to return to Earth. He can he needs to return to Rocky because he can send these things to Earth by themselves and they can figure it out. He knows that they can figure it out, he knows that they're waiting for that. But if he didn't turn around, there's a high possibility that Rocky's entire race would have been wiped off the face of the galaxy. And that's super traumatic. And he made the right decision that in that moment, and I I I loved that moment. And that's when for me I I knew I loved the movie.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

When you got that he finally made something of himself, and it wasn't it wasn't like a stupid loser teacher position or helping the middle school kids, it was saving a civilization from a you saved two civilizations, you know.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

That's true. I I appreciated that. I thought that was really, really cool. Way better than being a teacher.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

I I do have to just but one thing I have to protest, okay? Just one thing I have to protest. So like he's gonna be happy for the rest of his days.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

I was thinking that too. I'm like, isn't he gonna be like lonely?

SPEAKER_03 55:56

And like they're all they're not even like. I mean, if at least if they were ewoks, like they're at least still like warm-blooded. Like I don't know, man. This is some rocks.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Where's that going?

SPEAKER_03 56:05

There's nothing going on here. Where's that going right now? There's nothing going for him here on this island. Uh I yes, it is heartless. I mean, it is selfless, and you know, like I don't know, man. Maybe I'm just a grumpy old man. When I when he's like, I'm gonna go back to him. I was like, wait a minute, my man's just gonna live with the rock people. I I couldn't and then when the end like fleshed out, at first I was like, oh, he he went back to Earth. I guess he got and I'm like, oh no. Y'all tricked me. He's just gonna live with the rock.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Well, I assumed that the rock people would be able to get him home.

SPEAKER_04 56:35

And like they have the tech for they have the tech. They said that you know his ship's ready whenever he's just gonna.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

It was the part where he's like, I don't want to go home, I want to keep teaching baby rocks. That was the part where I was like, okay, this is good PR for teachers because it shows that he doesn't view teaching as a loser profession and he actually wants to continue doing it, but also aren't you incredibly alone?

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Well, if you pay attention to him throughout the movie, his connections are gone. Like he he really has no solid connections with anybody on Earth.

SPEAKER_04 57:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

You know, I mean he had a couple of moments with that that one lady, but then she drugged him. Right, right. I would say that like his like real like true connection was with Rocky. And so when he came to that realization that really like his only real friend in probably a a long time is pro is on his way to his doom, it made sense that he would want to go help him. And then yeah, like in the end, he really can go home. They they left it open that he could go home at any time.

SPEAKER_04 57:44

And it was it's the it's a selfless attitude that it's the same selfless attitude that Rocky showed him. Rocky risked his own well-being and potentially the well-being of his entire planet to save his friends. The least he could do is turn around and save him.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

So anyway, I But then my problem is that the staying on the planet, it's it just becomes this trope of teacher movies where the teacher just gives and gives and gives, and they're just so selfless, and there's no personhood other than in service to others at all times.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

And he did it for the rock kids.

SPEAKER_04 58:21

I I don't see it that way at all. I mean, I I understand that there that is a trope, but I feel like not for this movie. I I feel like he found his way. Uh he found purpose.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

His his purpose teaching rocks in a uh okay. I'm just gonna back down. I I'll respectfully it's a it's in this universe, it's a it's a it's um it's our universe. Like I it it I'm led to believe that this is essentially our universe, and this tea like why doesn't he go back to his students that he should have a connection with? Like you're like, I don't know. I teach kids for 10 months, and I only know them for 10 months, and by the end of those 10 months, I'm sad to see them go, and some of them actually are sad to say goodbye, you know. Like it's I don't know. I it it like I said, it makes the teacher in some ways a caricature instead of a fuller person. I think that like a real victory for him is coming back and getting his life in order and making connections, like learning that through his connection with Rocky, he isn't he can make connections with any being. You know, like why not try with my race? I don't I mean my my plan.

SPEAKER_04 59:33

Here's the thing. Why didn't Frodo want to stay with the Hobbits? Because Because he could never come back from the war. And this is kind of the essential, it's it's the same exact ending, really. He's gone off into the West.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

But the elves are warm-blooded. We're gonna circle back to Rich's warm-blooded comment. I don't see why the spiders would need to be warm-blooded. I don't know what you think he's gonna do with the spiders. I was very concerned by that comment.

Final Thoughts And Ratings

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

We're we're gonna close this podcast. Final thoughts on Project Hail Mary. We'll start with Jen.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

I really enjoyed it. I thought it was cute and fun. I did question the teacher persona. I think Rich and I are both coming at this from the same angle. And I also spoke with another teacher at my job who saw the movie, and she also came to the same conclusions that we did, where like teachers do kind of become caricatures of like what society wants them to be. And it's like, don't take care of yourself or your family, do everything for the kids, service society at all costs. So I do see that for sure, but I still found the movie very enjoyable. I found Ryan Gosling's performance to be well done. I like that he was intelligent but also stupid at times, like righty tidy lefty loosey, and just making that assumption that that's just how everybody does things and realizing I thought that was like a cute moment to show, like not to make assumptions when it comes to alien races. And yeah, I just thought two hours and thirty minutes well spent. I enjoyed it and I had a good time, and I would watch it again.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:04

Yeah, I'm in the the same boat pretty much. Uh, I obviously don't have the teacher viewpoint that you guys do, but I don't know, I felt that the overall story and the trajectory of the character finding himself in like the most unlikely scenes imaginable, basically, for him, really took me on an adventure. And it after having said Lord compared it to Lord of the Rings, it does have that feel of you know he's taking something to Mordor and it means everything for everyone. And I think that he did it. Frodo did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

Well, he was kind of forced into it too. Like he was definitely trying to be selfish and not going. Like he didn't want to go.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:48

Oh, yeah. I know, I know. Yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

I'm trying to say that like I would say like that where the that's where the teacher trope kind of breaks, where he's like, I don't want to do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

Yeah, I think teachers say that every day.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

I literally say that every at 6 15 every morning I wake up and I go, I don't want to do this. All right, like I mean, it's 19 years. All right, 19 years, my friend. And I've literally woken up every day and just gone, oh, I don't want to do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

And then my wife goes, Yeah, and for me, like the oh sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

Like that's every morning, I don't want to do this. What's new? And then I just go to work.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

For me, it's also like when they don't give me maternity leave and I'm gonna be forced to leave my infant child to go back and help other people's kids because our country kind of sucks. Yeah, like I don't want to do that, but I'm gonna be forced to. The principal's gonna come drug me and just shove me back in the classroom.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:44

Damn, this is getting dark. Um, Anthony, what did you what did you think of the movie? Final thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

I enjoyed it. I thought it was really good. I loved you know both characters that that it was centered around. I love the dynamic, I loved the friendship and the desire to want to help each other out, not only as friends, but like, you know, wanting to save each other's civilizations, you know, like they understood what the stakes were for both of them. So I really did enjoy that. I did want to throw a little tidbit in there. Andy Weir used to work for Blizzard until he was fired.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

Oh, snap.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

For poor performance.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:27

Whoa, okay, all right. That's uh I'm glad he's open about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

So so writing was his fallback career. For a bit there, he was a failure.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:38

Kind of like teaching is for some others, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:43

But yeah, I uh one thing that I don't like about this movie, you know, I'm gonna bring it back to something I don't like. No dates. There's not a single date in this movie. I don't I can't even pinpoint it to a decade. Um don't have that issue with Titanic. Don't have that issue with Titanic. But anyway, overall, really liked it. Rich, what what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

He hated it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:03

I think I have to, you know, you started the movie, you started the show. It was interesting. Hold on. Is it a thumbs up or a thumbs down for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

It's a thumbs down for him.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:09

No. But a rocky thumbs down. It's not a thumbs down. I I just I feel like maybe I saw a lot of positive, superlatively positive stuff, and I just thought that it was it's a it's a fun movie, it's nice. I mean, there's also I I have a long I've just liked Ryan Gosling for a very long time. So uh that I didn't reveal that till now. I didn't want to say that. Uh, but when Anthony started with talking about uh typecast stuff, listen, I just I never understood what James Marsden's character did wrong in Notebook, alright? He was a good man, alright, who was there for Rachel McGazz. Oh my god. All right, and Ryan Gosling and his letters had to rear their ugly head and pull her out of that relationship. Alright. Uh no, all jokes aside, I mean he was good in this movie. He's not my favorite actor in the world, but I I I thought it did he did well. I I you know, I guess that for me as a teacher, some of the I don't know. I guess I guess there's a part of me that like doesn't wants to see uh him perhaps just return and have success where he belongs. And I and I I feel like it would have been a little bit more transformative of an ending for him to do the saving. I mean he should go back and help Rocky. That I'm without question with that, you know. But I I do think there there should have been like a return, uh a return to Earth where he's like now it's like he's left Earth and in leaving Earth, he's finally found who he is as a person, and now he can go back and be like I think that it's way more powerful of a story to have a character go back and be successful in that place where they weren't successful, right? Like that's the kind of stuff that I like to see. So I mean I did complain about the length, but man, I you know what it if you if it was a couple more minutes and and you see him I I don't need to see him get married or whatever, but just see him be successful on earth, you know, as a teacher, you know, and having fun in a different environment. You know, I think would have been a little bit for me a happier ending. Whereas this happy ending is like, look, I'm a teacher. If you drugged me and put me on a spaceship and like made me save the world, alright, like I gotta get back to my mets and my family. My family. And then, you know, like I I have to get back to something. And I understand that he seemed to kind of have no connection, but I think that the greater success is overcoming that. So that's my only gripe. It's a fun movie. Alright. Like I just probably I'm not sure if maybe I was in a different headspace than all you guys as I was I was consuming it. So that might be something as well. But uh if you're listening to the show, don't not watch the movie because you heard anything that I had to say. I'm sometimes a grumpy old man, and I think that this can actually be a really fun watch for anybody out there who's listening.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

Alright, so we have a tentative thumbs up from Rich and three thumbs down for us.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

Rocky Rocky thumbs down.

Farewell And Next Week Unknown

SPEAKER_04 1:07:00

Rocky thumbs downs. Guys, thank you so much for listening to us here for our 158th episode. No idea what we're doing next week. We have not discussed it in the slightest, but uh you'll be hearing from us one way or the other. That's a threat.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:17

Bye.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

The wolves.