Project Geekology
Embark on an epic journey with Anthony and Dakota as they delve into the vast realms of geek culture, from cherished classics to cutting-edge creations. Join us for an exhilarating adventure of exploration and nostalgia, as we unearth hidden gems and reminisce about the moments that have shaped us. Welcome to the ultimate celebration of all things geeky!
Project Geekology
Avatar: Fire and Ash (2025)
A planet that might be a god. A villain slowly becoming the land he conquered. A family pushed to the edge until love looks like a knife. Fire and Ash gives us the biggest canvas yet for Pandora, and we dig into why the scale only works because the feelings keep pace.
We compare notes on the craft that makes this one a true event: underwater performance capture, variable frame rate used as a storytelling tool, and 3D calibrated for immersion instead of gimmicks. The whale matriarchs’ resonance, the wind traders’ drifting caravans, the medusoids floating like living lanterns—these sequences don’t just look good, they feel engineered for IMAX, where detail and depth turn scenes into experiences. We also admit where the tech stumbles; those 48-to-24 frame drops can jar, even as the overall presentation reduces eye strain and keeps action crisp.
Then we get into the meat. Quaritch evolves from boot-stomping colonel to ash-painted initiate, torn between capturing Jake Sully and protecting Spider. Neytiri steals the spotlight with a confession that calls out her own prejudice, leading to a searing “I see you” that lands harder than most finales. We unpack the Abraham-and-Isaac echo in Jake’s most brutal choice, and why it reframes leadership, faith, and family under pressure. On the lore side, we wrestle with the mycelium network, Kiri’s origin as Grace’s clone, and the possibility that Eywa is both biological and divine. Whether you read it as neural ecology or planetary spirit, the outcome is the same: Pandora looks back.
We close with a plea to experience this one in theaters if you can. Avatar is built for the big room—the sound, the depth, the scale all feed the story. Watch, feel, and then tell us: which moment stayed in your bones? Subscribe for next week’s Twin Peaks dive, share this episode with a friend, and leave a review so more fans can find the show.
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The way of water has no beginning or no end. In fact, it just continues into fire and ash forever and ever. Because Avatar uh the Avatar Three feels like a solid continuation of Avatar, the Way of Water. Um, I think you guys will probably agree with me on that. Uh, but we are covering obviously Avatar Three, Fire and Ash, and I'm very excited. Welcome to episode 146 of Project Geekology.
SPEAKER_01:I am one third of your hosts, Dakota, and I'm joined as always with Anthony, and I think I watched the wrong avatar because mine consisted of four elements um magic, martial arts, and a flying bison. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, this movie, the movie that you're supposed to see actually has all of those things. It just doesn't have a flying bison, it has like a flying like jellyfish thing. Um you're close enough. You can probably, you know, follow along with the discussion, even though you watch the wrong avatar.
SPEAKER_01:But yes, joining us as always is Rich.
SPEAKER_02:Wait a minute. We're not talking about the wrestler that was played by Al Snow in WWE Avatar. No, we are, actually. You're right. I mean, I hope so because uh he is really cool. Uh I don't know if you guys can uh I'm so old that I Googled it on my phone and I'm showing it to them to the screen. Uh he wears a delightful red and white gear. He's got a mask on. So uh I loved him. I loved him. Um I thought he could have been better, but uh but anyway, I guess we could talk about this other stuff. Uh I'll see what I can do to remember names. Uh it's been I don't know if you guys have been on the interwebs, but it's been it's like these names from this movie, you know, other than uh than Jake Suley, it's just uh it's it's impossible almost to decipher. I had to watch the movie no less than three times uh this week before I was able to remember uh mother, you know, it was tough. Uh which mother? Ewa. Uh or we uh I don't know. I don't know what the name is.
SPEAKER_00:I can't remember. I believe it's Awa personally. No, uh, so for those of you not uh clued in on Rich's joke, Rich's humor, Rich's new 2026 humor, because this is the first day of 2026, new first episode of Project Ecology of the Year. Rich is referring to a post on Twitter that I I made yesterday. Basically a week ago, some guy, a prominent film Twitter guy, basically, um, he was saying something not negative about the film, but negative about film in general and generalizing avatar in that bracket. Basically, he was suggesting that because uh like there's a there's a scientific reason why people can't remember the name uh the names in the Avatar movies outside of Jake Sully, and it's because modern movies don't use names as often as they did in the past. And I immediately clocked this as just complete bull crap um because I've I've seen this movie a bunch of times at this point. I knew how much uh these characters say each other's names, whether it's in action scenes or in heart to hearts or just when they meet each other. It's non-stop. So after watching it three times in theater, I I took to the high seas. I'm not proud, I'm I'm not proud to admit this. I I'm I actually I think I you know you could probably hear that I'm sick. I'm sick to my stomach with myself because I did this. You know, I I I downloaded a cam rip, and it was the worst thing in it was the worst experience of my life. Um but I pushed through it, I tallied every name use in the movie, uh over 330 name drops in this movie, way more than most films ever even dream of. Um it's almost non-stop. So uh let's let's be clear, people. If you don't remember the names in these movies, it's either because you're not engaging with the story uh well enough or it's um it's a skill issue.
SPEAKER_01:Usually my my my issue is usually the the former. Um I'm I'm like I'm when it comes to these movies, I'm more engaged with like how well it looks than like the actual story itself. I mean the story's okay. Like, I mean it's not it's got cool action. I like I like the action, but you know, I mean Avatar, it's not the only the the only thing that that it's breaking real ground on really is it the technology, but not not the story itself, you know.
SPEAKER_00:But um I mean I'm gonna push back on that later, um, because I disagree.
SPEAKER_01:But well, I mean you you have a bias though. I mean there uh let's I mean we yeah, we'll we can get to it, but I mean let's be real. A lot of this stuff has been used in other things. I mean Of course, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, there's no there's no original story. Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_01:It's just I think I I think that it gets too much credit, I guess. Like, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, you know, I like the story, but it's not brand new, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. I can I can agree with that. Wait, who has bias, Anthony? Just to clarify.
SPEAKER_01:Dakota definitely has bias in this.
SPEAKER_02:In this?
SPEAKER_01:In Avatar.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I'm just sorry. Uh well, I can't can I say something that I don't know, maybe off we should mention things like this, but I I I tend I tend to have a um I tend to have a slightly different viewpoint, Dakota, uh, that I didn't want to discuss on Twitter, and I'll discuss here. But uh this idea that like because I was reading a lot of internet back like about you know the movie and people are saying that it doesn't have this cultural impact, and then I saw maybe it's because of what you were sharing or you were responding to people talking about how the names aren't memorable, right? And or they can't and people just you just can't remember the names. And I just wonder, like Star Wars had a lot of character names, right? Game of Thrones had a lot of character names, right? Is this a product of the names not being anglic anglicized?
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, that that's definitely part of it. I I have a a friend who I went to see it with the other day um who's from Brazil and really likes these movies. They didn't know any character other than Jake Soli. Obviously, they they knew the characters. They knew, oh, Jake's oldest son, Jake's youngest daughter, blah blah blah. But they they could not grasp um the character names other than Saraya, which is uh the the daughter of the Meccaina tribe, the one that Loak likes. The only reason they could remember that name is because in Brazilian, Sereya is mermaid, and she's like a mermaid. So that you know it's names that she identified with um as anglicized and from her culture that she was able to remember, but otherwise she was completely uh lost to these characters, even though she she claims to really like these movies. So I I do think that's that's part of it. Um and it it they they do take a lot from different cultures within our own world and kind of twist it, you know, so that they could, you know, create something new for Pandora. And I think that that's part of it. But you know what? We are getting way ahead of ourselves. Um, we haven't spoken for two weeks, and uh we got a lot of catching up to do. Um I'm gonna start with Antonio over here. What uh or Twani, as as you've put on your uh Zoom name.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, it's gonna be a new name every time. Well, every time I remember, I might not always remember to change it, but yeah, man, it it's it's been a couple weeks. This is the first this is gonna be the first episode of the new year, and it's lit literally we we're recording it on New Year's New Year's Day. So yeah, we um we kind of took a little bit of time off, which I mean you know how that this time of year gets a little crazy, so or that time of year it really gets crazy, so now we're we're in the new year. The beginning of the year is is usually kind of slow, so you know it'll it'll definitely be easier to you know we'll we'll be back to our recording um schedule and whatnot. And yeah, uh I got some I got some stuff. I I showed uh Dakota and Rich. I got some uh I got some like lapel mics that are the road like micro lapel mics. And uh I plan on using those for when I go out to conventions and whatnot. And you know, I want to be able to kinda you know get some like maybe like interviews and and and what whatnot. I mean maybe it would be awesome to get in interviews for um celebrities attending there, but you know, obviously it'll be you know just you know anybody like on the the show floor, maybe some of the the the vendors, you know, the about their experiences and and kind of get that captured and um you know maybe I can get like a a f a more full episode for when I whenever I do those um those convention episodes and I have started what un you know obviously we've seen Avatar and I started watching the the topic of our our next episode which is going to be Twin Peaks. So yeah, Dakota is putting us on that. That's what we're gonna be watching. So I I started that, you know.
SPEAKER_00:How far did you get by the way?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I I started it last night, so I watched a little a little bit of the first episode until like I started getting like dude like after like midnight. I I I just like I started getting exhausted. And then and then I finished the the first and then like the second episode today, and so I'll I'll probably watch the third one after we're done recording. So enjoy it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The show gets crazier and crazier.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm interested to see what's going on, you know. I'm you know, right now it it's you know it's it starts off like kind of like normal, so I'm like, when does the the weird stuff start to happen? So like you know, I'm I'm you know, I'm like trying to brace myself for it. Not in a bad way, but I'm like, when it when is it gonna happen? So yeah, I'm pretty excited for that. Um but yeah, no, just enjoying the you know the craziness of of the end of of the year. So um, how about you, Rich? I know that that you've probably got a lot of stuff that you had going on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, uh we have a nice long break this year. It's actually uh full two weeks. Doesn't happen a lot, but basically if uh Christmas and New Year's fall on a Thursday, it works out this way for teachers uh up here. So uh we're pretty lucky with that. Uh the New York Mets continue to break my heart and they don't want to do anything. But I did get a fabulous Mr. Matt like neon sign uh for Christmas for my wife. So that and uh I got a uh Wolverine uh a replacement for my Wolverine jacket. It's the jacket from X2, uh the brown one with the kind of orange stripes, uh three stripes on each arm. It's like a motorcycle jacket, which uh is completely against my entire vibe, so it's hilarious. I'm like rocking it with Chewbacca Crocs. So uh loving that. I've been playing I got Outer Worlds 2 for uh for Christmas as well. I've been jumping into that. I love that game. Uh I just think it's so goofy. Uh it's weird because I'm playing like Fallout. I was playing Fallout 76 because I'm watching the show. Then I'm playing Outer Worlds, you know, I'm kind of bouncing around from all these first person games. Uh and I uh I've been you know kind of enjoying that. I think I told you guys last time I beat Odyssey. So I'm like, I beat Koopa, but now I have to like find all the moons in Odyssey. So I've been really getting a lot of gaming in since uh I've been off and really enjoying that. So looking forward to uh binging uh Twin Peaks as uh Twani has been, you know, and uh Yeah, but you're probably past tonight. Like I will you I oh yeah, no, I will. Charlie's at home. Uh but speaking of Charlie, this I actually wanted to share this with you guys. So my son is uh notoriously nosy when you're on the phone. Uh when one is on the phone, I should say. So if he's anywhere near you, he's like, Oh, you texting. And I think uh we had been texting or something in the and when we were on our way to the dentist uh for his appointment the other day, so he sees the group text our group chat name, which is Whalen Utani Corp, and he goes, Oh, whale Utani Corp, that's Vermalian, right? And I was like, Whoa! He's like, Is that your uh podcast chat? And I was like, Whoa! And I was just really excited uh that he was unpacking all of this lore uh right there, and then it it was I it was kind of wholesome, and uh I was kind of excited. Did he learn that from Fortnite? So no, uh one of his he does so he's he's actually there are two things I put my foot down about, and then I'll shut up. Uh Fortnite and uh Roblox, I refuse. I tell them no, not in my house. Okay. And basically he could play Minecraft, but he knows I am heavily against it. But no, but Roblox and Fort Fortnite, I I actually don't like the vibes like for the community and for the type of gaming that he does. Like I don't want him to be he's too com he's too if he's anything like me as a gamer, him get getting online with other people would be a disaster. So we're gonna keep it to single player experiences for him. For the time because I I yeah, he's he's 11, you know? Sounds good, sounds good.
SPEAKER_01:Man, it was it, he didn't he didn't want to be uh was it I I had played Halo, was it when I was his age, but it was like connecting Xboxes together. So I got pissed off at somebody, the person was right next to us. Yeah, that's what we do, man.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because you have to you have to show restraint in that res in that respect. But like online you could say whatever you want.
SPEAKER_01:You're like, you no, no, but but like the thing is is that like back back then like it was like kind of playful trash talk, like you know, so but uh yeah, yeah. Now now people definitely get unhinged. Um was it I understand I understand Roblox just because it's a lot of weirdness that happens in Roblox. I mean, you just gotta be careful. Really gotta be careful. And I missed the big one.
SPEAKER_02:I totally left uh the the big one out, guys. I I pulled anything almost. He got a meta quest.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah. Yeah, you told us uh you told us, but you had to keep it on the DL, so let us so tell us the updated.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so I'm trying to tell you the truth. I'm gonna sound like an old man here. I haven't had a lot of time with it because like he plays, you know, he's dominating it. Obviously, it's his Christmas gift. Um, and by the way, good news, he does it he the Santa was revealed to him by his older cousins by mistake, and now he knows uh that it's all us, and uh it's very rewarding. But anyway, I don't know if you guys have done the the meta quest yet. No, the frustrating thing for me is like, okay, so if it's not like it got locked in a screen that I couldn't get out of, and it's like this helplessness of not thinking to put pull the headset off because it's now your reality, it's everything you see. Dude, you can't. But now like I couldn't. Yeah, so it's like it was it it felt um it just felt in those moments like it's annoying that I just I don't know, it's like my brain is so into it that I don't think to take it off. So now I'm living in this confusion. But I'm sure if I if I just like he's not here I'm at tonight, so after we record, uh I I'm gonna do a little bit of uh a little bit of the MediQuest behind his back.
SPEAKER_00:He's gonna play Twin Peaks on MetaQuest.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, if I could stream it from a computer, I would.
SPEAKER_01:Oh technically, technically you can watch it on the MetaQuest. Because I'm I'm pretty sure that well uh I'm pretty sure that like all of the ma like a lot of the major apps, like I I know Netflix is on there, I know Disney's on there, I am Prime is on there, I'm pretty sure Paramount's on there. So and I I've actually watched stuff in in VR, and like they they kind of like sit you in like a large like kind of movie theater thing, and so like you can kind of like look around. So yeah, it's interesting. But yeah, no, I I have the MetaQuest 2. I've had it for a while. I did play it again, it had been a little while. I did pick it up the was it like this past weekend. I was playing this, uh it was like Dungeons of Eternity, and that was like pretty fun. Like I got I was you know fighting, you know, sword fighting and like using like uh bow and arrow. Uh a game that I do want to play, I've played the base game for this. There's a there's a game called Demio, and they came and the the creators did uh it's a Demio D D collaboration. So I wanna I wanna get in on that because I mean dude, I I I love D. I was playing oh yeah, I forgot. I was playing some Baldur's Gate with some with some some friends this past weekend, so forgot to add that.
SPEAKER_02:Excellent game, actually. Dakota, after that amazing uh that that you guys did not get to see this because we're doing audio. He did the most incredible slow turn that I've ever seen. I looked like the beginning to a news like introduction, like like Anchorman, he just rolled across the screen. Uh so so since since uh you did that, uh we're have to what what have you been up to, man?
SPEAKER_00:Oh man, it's been a couple of weeks of avatar for me. Um that's pretty much it. I've seen it a couple times in movies. Um there's a couple avatar books out, you know. There's there's there's a new avatar book called The Awakening of Roku, which follows the avatar before Ang uh or Ang, and uh it's his second novel, and that's part of the Chronicles of the Avatar series. Uh so there's the Awakening of Roku book, there's the Fire and Ash visual dictionary that's out, there's the Fire and Ash uh like the new world of Pandora like thing. I've been doing a lot of reading. I also like finally finished the the base main game of Frontiers of Pandora. So that's been cool. Um I I was impressed with the the story ultimately, and I'm excited to jump into some of the DLC packs because they expand not only like the story but the physical world boundaries that you have. Because the base game is already like 200 kilometers of uh movement. It's it's it's a massive, massive map. And then they add two other big locations onto the map with the DLC. So I'm I'm I'm really excited to dive into that even more. Um I have yet to do that yet. I just I want to finish. All the the little side quests from the main game that I haven't. It's just like little tedious stuff at this point, but I'm like very determined that I have to do it. And yeah, I I I pulled these guys into the world of Twin Peaks. I'm I'm very excited. Uh Rich has never seen anything directed by David Lynch. Um, even, you know, like the the the 1984 Dune film, which is probably the most normal. Uh oh boy. The most normal of the David Lynch, you know, oeuvre.
SPEAKER_01:And that's saying a lot, because there's a lot in that movie where I'm just like, what?
SPEAKER_00:What's happening right now? Wasn't there like a cat torturing device or something? Like it was unfortunate.
SPEAKER_01:Dude, the like warp, that that like uh was it the hyperspace like scene with the worm or whatever the heck that thing was? I'm like, what's happening right now? Like it was some actually scene going on.
SPEAKER_00:That that actually I think was like part of Dune Canon. Uh he just you know translated onto the screen very literally and it didn't really work. Um, especially not in the 80s. But uh David Lynch, if I could uh understand the mind of that man, I I would love to, but uh I don't think anyone ever ever can. Um so going into Twin Peaks, we're only watching the first eight episodes, which is the the entirety of the first season. Um we're going to be uh trying to discover who murdered Laura Palmer, and the whole show kind of revolves around the the murder of Laura Palmer, the people around her um in this small town of Twin Peaks. And it's it's one of those shows that like if you look up cult classic TV shows or top five cult classic TV shows, it's always either in position one or position two on every list you'll ever find. Just because it is that insane of a show, and just people love it to death because the more you watch it, the more you just like you love the characters, you love everything that that's going on, but there's it leaves you with so many questions and thoughts that you you'll you'll never really get it out of your mind. So I'm excited to do season one of Twin Peaks next week. There's only it's only two it's only two seasons. Actually, there's a third season, but it came out 20 years later. Um, and maybe one day we'll cover that, but that's that's a different story. That's called the Twin Peaks to Return.
SPEAKER_02:Not the lost season or something? I saw something while I was looking things up. Um I I could just be wrong. Yeah, I don't remember exactly.
SPEAKER_00:I know that there's so there's two seasons that came out in the early 90s. There was a film that came out to like wrap up the Laura Palmer story, and um Oh, that's maybe what I'm thinking about. Yeah, uh Firewalk With Me is what it's called. And then there's Twin Peaks of Return, which came out 20 years later. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it's a lot of content to cover for next week, but I'm ready for it, guys. I will do all of that conversation.
SPEAKER_00:You were stuck to eight episodes, sir. Yes. No jumping ahead.
SPEAKER_01:We are we are 64 episodes shackling you to the ground. Dakota, I need you to to freaking shackle this man, okay? Shackle him.
SPEAKER_00:I will. Yeah, no, I'm I as soon as he you know cut watches these episodes, I'm I'm cutting off his internet.
SPEAKER_01:I'd be so pissed. Oh like the Dakota's just like watching watching him like like through the basement window, and then like as soon as like the eighth episode's over, he's just like he he cuts the the internet line. Oh my gosh, that'd be crazy.
SPEAKER_00:I'll have to fix it before we record next week, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um guys, let's uh let's jump into the topic at hands.
SPEAKER_01:Obratar.
SPEAKER_00:Obrigado guitar. Uh yeah. So James Cameron has released his third Avatar film. Uh the first one came out in 2009, second one came out three years ago in tw uh 2022, and now this is the third entry in his series. Um, and by tomorrow, they are s uh they're anticipating that this is uh already going to hit like a billion dollars worldwide. It's just a juggernaut. It was always going to be a juggernaut, you know. It's it's these are the biggest films ever, so it's like people doubt him.
SPEAKER_01:Why do you think it took them so long to release the second one and not so long to release like you know, between two and three?
SPEAKER_00:They filmed two and three together.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay. And so they got separated, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, two and three was uh originally meant to be one film. It was it was originally meant to be the way of water, and then they realized the third act of the way of water could be its own movie, and they made that into the Fire and Ash. And yeah, that's that's basically how that film came about, and then they decided to film them back to back because the kids would be around the same age in both films.
SPEAKER_02:And I that's a novel approach. Imagine if other series would do that.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, but do they have James Cameron money?
SPEAKER_02:It would be like strange. It would be a strange thing for them to do.
SPEAKER_00:That would be a strange I've heard of stranger things.
SPEAKER_01:So so do you think it's gonna be a long time until like the fourth one comes out then?
SPEAKER_00:That's a tough question. Yeah, that's a tough question because I think Disney is going to make him do it, but I think James Cameron is kind of in a weird position where like he has kind of already told most of the story that he wants to tell. Um, and with the death of his uh close like creative partner John Landau, I think he wants to pull back and do something else a little bit because John Landau was like the reason Avatar got off the ground and he died in the in the creation of this uh of this movie. Um, you know, you you may have noticed like after the credits uh or after like the Miley Cyrus song at the end, there's the James Landau like um send-off uh screen, basically. It's uh in tribute to James Landau, or John Landau rather. And yeah, so we're we're not really sure if he wants to do it, but considering the response that this one has already received, because like he was already he was talking prior to the movie coming out, like if this one doesn't do well, it'll be the last one. But um if it does, who knows? So I'm pretty sure like we're gonna get number four. I mean, he should have known. Oh, he knows, yeah. Yeah, come on. Um supposedly they did already film the introduction to the fourth movie, but there's gonna be an eight-year time jump um within the or like some places say six years, some places some places say uh eight years, there's gonna be a time jump between three and four where the kids are gonna be adults. As far as um why it took so long between Avatar in 2009 and The Way of Water in 2022, ultimately he was building new technologies. You know? Um if you go and watch the uh on on Disney Plus, there's there's a a two-episode documentary called I think it's called like Water and Fire, the making of the Avatar movies or something like that. Uh if you watch those, it's it's fascinating because they literally had to create new technologies and new methods of filmmaking to be able to even film the the actors doing their performance capture stuff um underwater because most of the underwater well all of the underwater stuff that you see in these movies is literally the actors underwater. They they had to like teach these actors how to hold their breath like like like divers do. So um Kate Winslet, uh who plays the Sahik of the Meccaina, the the the woman Ronaldo the pregnant woman. Um Kate Kate Winslit was underwater without a mask for over I think like eight or nine minutes, you know? Like that that was that was the record for for a cast member being underwater. Yeah, they they learned how to like hold their breath for like extreme lengths of time for the for the making of this movie. It's it's actually the craziest thing ever. Jeez. Yeah, it's crazy, man.
SPEAKER_01:Once you've been in the James Cameron movie, you'll you'll most likely been in in another one or two.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. If you watch um Where's Leo Esmond? I know, right? If you watch uh Terminator 2 and then go into uh Aliens, like so many actors roll over. Um both of John Connor's parents roll over. Bill Paxton was in Bill Paxton's in it, like in a really random scene. Uh there's there's a whole bunch of actors. Um anyway, he loves to reuse actors, and that's fine because he has a rapport with them. He knows what they can get out of it, he knows what he can get out of them performance-wise. And um, for a film like Avatar, you can do whatever the heck you want with those actors, you know. So uh I say go for it. But yeah, let's actually talk about the the film. Um, Rich, we haven't heard anything about uh what you thought about it or anything. You said you watched it three times.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I um I I probably ill ill advised my first viewing was pretty late at night. Uh I I think I started, and it's just a long movie, so I uh I nodded off, but that has nothing to do with the movie. That was just really Yeah, it's like you know, me. I think it was a Friday, which makes it Friday's my notoriously like nine nine o'clock uh day where it's like I just randomly fall asleep early. Uh so I ended up watching two more times after that, because obviously the first time I didn't really finish it. Uh so I I actually really liked it. I mean I I I struggle with length of I I struggle with lengthy it's weird. I you guys know I can sit here and binge watch something, right?
SPEAKER_00:But like when it's one thing that's super long. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like have you ever read The Road by Jack Kerouac? Like the original one.
SPEAKER_00:I haven't read it, but I I know what it is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well it's it's uh uh it's a manuscript. The manuscript copy has no paragraphs. So it's just like continuous writing, and it gives your brain no break. Uh I can't believe that this would have been part of the way of water because I would have lost my mind. And mind you, like I love extended cuts of like Lord of the Rings, you know? Um but I've also seen those so many times that I think it helps me kind of navigate it. Uh so length is just a little bit long for me, and then I don't know why I thought this was like a wrap-up of the series. Maybe to see I'm just trilogy based on everything, you know. So as it's like getting into the final beats, I'm like, this isn't ending, my dude. I was like, there's more story to tell, you know. So uh, you know, I am I am getting what I hope we don't have to wait as long, you know. Like I I hate waiting. I hate waiting for all these movies. I I just I hate waiting. And the idea that he's not a spring chicken, you know, like I know that you said that he would have a press conference or something to uh reveal the fate of the uh the franchise or something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was joking. Um like he has gone on record saying a couple things like uh the first thing is if he never finished the movies, or if he didn't get allowed if he wasn't allowed to finish the movies, he would write a book, you know, about how it ends, you know, or write a couple books. And then he wrote, or and then recently he said, Um, you know, if I don't if I don't end up doing these uh next two movies, I'll just hold a press conference and tell you how it ends. Ah alright.
SPEAKER_02:So I I went way too literally on that one, guys. Sorry. Well, I would love to at least I would love to see that, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:At least you know he would finish the story unlike um your boy George.
SPEAKER_00:My boy George.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, George R. Martin, man, he's not gonna finish those books, bro. He's I I I he's he's getting up there in age, man, and it's just it's too much. But I know that like if uh if James Cameron wanted to like if he wanted to to make the movies, like he would, he would actually get it done and like have you know, and even if he knew that he was about to like pass away, he'd find a way to like have it, you know, be finished. But I mean I I thought I thought uh they were supposed to be it I mean I read somewhere like it was supposed to be what four or five movies?
SPEAKER_00:Five total. Right?
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, that's what I thought.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's how many stories that like that's how many films he's written. So we'll we'll see. I mean, he he's not the only one who knows how the story ends. So if he doesn't make it, or I mean I don't want to say that, but you know, if if something goes terribly wrong, it's not like we'll never know the end of this story. He has a whole story, uh, story group, um, and these these books follow a very strict uh story bible. So I have no doubt that you know we'll we'll get more Avatar in one form or another some sometime in the future.
SPEAKER_01:I think I think he said that like what it'll do is like pull on lore king Ichiro Oda from One Piece, you know, just help with uh keeping all the the lore tight.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I'll tell you what though, if if you read any of like the uh or even if like there's a great video. Um I think he's talking to Entertainment Weekly, James Cameron, and he's explaining the scene of like those those those floating ships that that the wind traders are on, and he's breaking down literal like little minutiae about everything in the scenes, and it's so clear that he has thought of literally every aspect of this universe, and the world building is so intense that you're only actually looking at the tip of the iceberg, and that's actually a a phrase that he uses because he wants you to feel like you're only looking into this world, but there's so much more on top of it that make it work and make it so that you don't question the physics or anything in this world. And um, I I was really impressed just just with because because the the wind trader scene is maybe 15 minutes long in total, you know, but the fact that he had so many more things to add uh to that scene just kind of blew my mind. Um, because if he has so much information about that, what else does he have? And actually the those those floating jellyfish things, the Medusoids, that was um that was like the one of the first things he dreamt of when he was start when he started like fantasizing about Pandora in the early 70s when he was in high school. He actually commissioned an artist to draw one one of those like jellyfish things in the 70s. You can look this up. Um, and that was the first official uh like concept art for Pandora back in the 70s, and he's been working on Avatar ever s you know, like on and off ever since. You even like if you go back into like I think at the turn of the century in like 2000, they they made a book called Movies That Never Got Made. And James Cameron talks about Avatar uh back in 1999, um, saying like it just couldn't be done, like that we just don't have the technology, blah blah blah. It's just uh I'd love to do it, but yeah, it's so he's been working on this forever, and finally he's able to live uh in in this world basically. Like he there's no doubt in my mind that he has a master program where he can go anywhere on this planet and and you know just figure out what stories are happening there and then. Um and I think that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01:So so would you say that the wind traders are are the equivalent of the air nomads? So I mean we technically got like every nation now. Like we have earth, water, air, and fire.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Like like I like we said at the start of this, like you'll you'll find all the elements in this movie. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um Oh, oh, you saw you saw um they they pulled your boy in. Oh my gosh, what's his name? Uh what's the actor's name for Remus Lupin?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, um Daniel Thule.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, man, they got him in here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude, I was like, oh my boy. He uh he plays I forget the name of the character. It's not it's actually not a character they name out loud in the film. Um, but he's the the Olo Ik Tan, the the leader of the Tla Tlalim people, the the wind traders, and that's they they visualized his face really well um in avatar form, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Like it it looked just like him, just blue.
SPEAKER_00:So uh did you like seeing him, Rich? Or did you even recognize him?
SPEAKER_02:So so it's hard sometimes for I mean as you famously remember, I completely didn't know that it was still uh Riley uh in as you know as the voice of the uh the character. Oh yeah, Anthony.
SPEAKER_00:Like he did not know that that was Sigourney Weaver playing Kitty until until the podcast that we we made where we like revisited.
SPEAKER_01:Really? Like I mean no idea. You can kind of like see the facial structure. I don't know. Just like younger, it's like you make it like a lot younger.
SPEAKER_02:Listen, please if you the uh the viewing, I guess the listening audience should know this about me. If you put if you paint yourself blue, I can't I just couldn't know who you are anymore. I'm I'm doing it. I'm doing it.
SPEAKER_01:My own motherfucking podcast I'm gonna be blue, and you're gonna be like he gets face blindness.
SPEAKER_00:He gets face blindness.
SPEAKER_01:Face blindness. He's like bad. So so so you I play I paint myself blue and I might as well just be John Cena, you can't see me?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, essentially, yeah. Oh yeah. Had his last match ever, alright, and it was an abomination. An abomination, I will say. But this is not a wrestling podcast, so I won't do that. Can I ask a question that makes me probably seem pretty stupid? The Giovanni Rubisi character I thought something had happened to him. Like, didn't he take on heavy fire in Way of Water or something?
SPEAKER_00:No, he's not he's not in uh so he is in Avatar the Way of Water, but he's only in a flashback. Oh, is the fla Okay, alright.
SPEAKER_02:So that's thank you for clear I think, and even though I watched it again, like I just wanted to ask somebody else for a second, because I'm like, I remember I think that's when I realized I was sleeping the first watch through. I was like, what? I'm like, oh I don't know. I'm like, that's something happened to that guy. I forget his name. Selfridge.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he's not a he's not a very mem memorable character in terms of like naming and all that. Um they only name him once in this movie.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he's but he's like a jerk. So I was like, you know I was like, oh, he's the jerk guy, you know. Like I I like him. I almost I almost think that he's a better like I he's a more enjoyable villain for me than Stirwid. Then Quarage? Quarage, yeah. I just mixed their names up. Um like Quarage is great and like dastardly, but like I like how I like how OneNote I almost enjoy how OneNote Selfridge is.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, like he he's almost like ridiculously stupid to the point uh like he doesn't care what anything does so long as it makes money, you know. Um they start explaining like the the mycelium network that's like built itself up in in spider that allows him to uh to to breathe the air, and he's just like uh he's just like wait wait, there's something living inside him, and they start explaining it. Shut up, shut up, can you do it again? Uh he's he's the worst.
SPEAKER_02:He's absolutely and uh that whole mycelium thing. I mean, I'm so interested to know. So, you know, Cameron's been thinking about this for years and years and years, right? Yeah, and I mean I mean The Last of Us is completely built around this mycelium, like the idea of mycelium spreading, right? And then it's such an important part of this movie. Uh I'm not accusing either one of ripping each other off, but I just think that it's kind of wild that if you look and you go, you know, two really large franchises over the last couple of, you know, let's say five to ten years involve the same kind of uh the same kind of important plot point.
SPEAKER_00:Um I I see what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01:I thought I I thought it was like you had freaking uh was it Korrich that he hated the the the people, you know, of uh of Pandora and then like by the end of this movie he's like lit literally shacking up with one.
SPEAKER_02:But I mean that's such a like a Vietnam thing, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like killing and then but um you know when when uh Jake Souley was like, you know, are you seeing, you know, he started I guess he started to see.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I I do like Korich's arc though, because over the course of these three movies, he went from just strict like army colonel to suddenly place in this world again, um, and you're given a second chance, and you start to really latch onto this child who you believe is yours, even though you're not technically the father, and he starts creating that bond with the character, and in doing so, and and looking for Soli and everything, he's bonding with the world more and more. He he he does the the Ichni Maya scene where he like he connects to a banshee, and he, you know, like that that's a huge um like almost like spiritual moment for for Navi characters, you know, like this is like a once-in-a-lifetime bond. So he's he's making these connections as the story progresses, and yeah, he stops he stops wearing shoes at a certain point. They even like kind of focus on his feet in like on like uh on like the steel floor in in the building, and it's it's starting to show that he's not the same character anymore. And then when he eventually takes that final leap into basically making a marriage uh betrothal to Varong um and connecting the RDA and like his forces with um the Menquan clan, the Ash people, he completely loses himself and his identity. He still leaves, or he's still like you know, working that mental gymnastics of I'm still playing for the same team, but he's really not. Um I think the painting is part of the cool part.
SPEAKER_01:Like painted up and everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And General Hardmore is like beating him up for it. Like, you you you still remember what an uh a uniform is, do you?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well um I mean you could tell there was a lot of like reluctancy also, like he was battling like you said, there was a lot of mental gymnastics happening. Um because I mean before he actually brought in Jake, you know, I mean he could have brought him in, but like he helped him out a couple times. And like I don't think it was I think it began as like an ulterior motive, but I think it became genuine over time. You mean like helping Jake or just helping Jake, you know, because he saw that Jake was trying to help his quote unquote son, you know? Right. You know, it's like it wasn't like uh, you know, I'm gonna you know, like he could he could have easily like in that moment taken uh Jake after they they escaped, but no. I I mean he he he let him go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh so that's a good point, and that's one of the better scenes for me, is when he realizes that he needs Jake's help directly after capturing him, and in so doing, he has to release hims to to basically save the life of his son, uh Spider. And yeah, I think that uh his character is super strong for me. Um I he's he's kind of like just a deliciously evil villain, um almost like cartoonishly evil at certain times, but he's well written enough, and uh just his his goals are believable enough, and he's being dragged in two different places. He wants to take Soli, but he also wants to save Spider. And even at the end of the movie, um Spider, you know, makes a deal with Koric and says, Me, uh take me and let them go. And Koric goes, We can make that happen. Um because he that that is ultimately what he wants. What he needs is Jake Soli. What he wants is is you know Spider with him, you know, because he he has a bond with their child. Let's talk a little bit about Spider. We we we touched on the Mycelium and all that. Um as far as uh the the overlap with Last of Us, I think Last of Us came out in 2013, 2014, sometime around there. Um we know that he used Mycelium on Grace's Avatar in 2009 when when they tried to like you know connect uh Grace uh before while she was dying into her avatar, but it didn't work at the end of the first avatar. Riley, Riley, yeah, yeah, yeah. Riley, yes. Yeah. That that was mycelium that was uh basically like connecting them, just the same way that it connected into Spider. So I don't think that it was uh Last of Us that got it from or I don't, you know, I don't think there's any real connection. Mycelium is a real thing in in this world. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. So yeah, it's it also you know kind of like opens the door as to like what exactly is AWA, and there's a new theory that is it's kind of plausible. I don't know if I like it, but it's a it's a plausible theory that Awa is actually this just this giant planet-wide fungus that uh gives people what they want. You know, if you want to see your dead loved ones, I'm gonna give that to you. Uh uh, you just have to, you know, keep living with me, keep me moving forward, keep um if you and that that's that kind of explains why all the animals have the kudu where they connect to Ewa and can connect to other life forms, is that they're all basically connected by the same mycelium network. So that is the new theory of what Ewa is, but I think it's too simple and it's not um cinematic and epic storytelling in the way that James Cameron likes to tell them. And I think this is literally James Cameron's, you know, like this is the god of that world, you know. Like I I th I don't think that there's there's probably they're probably one and the same, you know, but I don't think it's as simple as it's a fungus trying to survive so it, you know, takes over the brains of every living creature on the planet, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it may not be uh the fungus, but I do believe it could be like a planet wide network in the same way that like you said that how the animals can connect um with Awa and with other living beings. It doesn't necessarily have to be that fungus network, but that fungus network can be included in that, you know? It could be, you know, just so so much more than than just that fungus. But I I do I I could believe in like some sort of planet-wide network happening, though.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um all right, so let's let's talk a little bit about Spider. At the end of The Way of Water, Spider saves Koric's life. And it's one of those interesting moments where you assume that it's gonna be this huge, like pivotable, like pivotal story moment when everyone finds out that spider was the one who uh saves Quarch's life, but they never touch on it in this movie. And I wonder if it was a scene originally and they just cut it out because there there are a lot of cut scenes in this movie. But do we do we like that they just kind of kept that moving forward, or should they have brought that uh that drama up? I've left you both speechless. Yeah, could you rephrase it for me? Um So so in the in the second movie they they they laid up a storyline. The storyline being or not a storyline, but you know, they they laid up a character thread that they could have pulled on in the third film. The the story thread would have been the Solis finding out that Spider saved Quarouch's life, which is why they're still in danger in the third movie. But they never find out that Spider saved they they know Quarouch is alive, but they never realize that Spider did it.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe it's they still have time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean it's the only thing that he seems too thorough for that to not come up later.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that that's why I'm thinking it might be a deleted scene, honestly. Um there's a there's a couple, like if you watch it a couple times, you start seeing kind of like there there are certain holes in the narrative that aren't plot holes, but like they're jumps in logic that the characters don't make on screen. So like there's there's one part in this movie that I feel is pretty egregious about that. Koric says, you know, like we we have one more play, but it's a risky one. And then they he like the the next scene is him going over to uh Varong of the Ash people and like trying to make a deal with her. But we never learn how Quaric knows where they live, we never learn how uh Koric knows that she's good at finding people. Um, we never like basically all the research that Koric did to find her and realize what she is good for, we never really get any of that. It's just a jump in logic that like this lady is gonna be able to be the one to help us, you know. Um, so there was clearly some deleted scenes there, and I'm sure they're they're littered throughout this movie because remember, this is a three-hour and like what 15-minute movie. There's there's so much that is in this, and there's so much that they were there they probably removed. Like one of the best scenes in this movie is the one where Koric is in the tent with Varong and he's having that like trip, and he's like, Oh, that's some strong stuff. Um I love that scene so much, it's so crazy. Uh, and they they do it so well, and it's it's believable, but like that whole scene plays out, and you start to see the shift but where like Varong has the upper hand versus you know eventually Quarich has her full attention, and that's that's one of the pivotal scenes of the movie. Um basically, like uh his editing team, James Cameron's editing team editing team, basic they kept cutting that scene out of the movie or like shortening it. And Cameron was just like, if you cut that out one more time, you're all losing your jobs. So there's a lot of stuff that's cut, even potentially really good stuff. So um, yeah. Don't know, man. Did you guys like it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's it's it's always like a good time. I mean, the I think the world is cool. Um it's it's beautiful, you know, like it it really it really is. The the attention to detail with like the CGI and stuff, and like and you really like see it when you like watch it in like uh like IMAX 3D, but like the particle effects and like the water and like the air, like that stuff impresses me. There's nothing like it. Yeah, that really does like impress me. You know, um I like I I really like the this like biolumines like how the world is like bioluminescent, you know? Yeah. And like how everything kind of glows and I mean it's pretty good. Yeah, it's it really, really is. And like the creatures are are are really cool too. Um what would you think about like the the whole thing with like the the whale, like the whale creatures? And like they had like this whole like matriarch and everything.
SPEAKER_00:Yo, that scene was so cool. Oh my god. In the theaters, that scene where where the matri like the the the elders like come up out of the water and they're you know they're they're talking, but like the vibrations of like their whale noises, it was insane in the movie theater, dude.
SPEAKER_01:I bro it was shaking, it was shaking my whole shit. I was shaking like a I thought I was in 40x and I I wasn't.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, the bass, the bass was crazy. It was like in a being in a concert. Um uh and that's that's actually part of it. It's it's the these movies are event films, you know? Um, in the sense that when they come out, everybody goes to see them in the theaters. Like it's just there's no comparison to like when they eventually get home releases, yeah, they're they're nice looking, but it's not even half of the experience that you're going to experience in the theaters. And it's not just the 3D, it's not just the the the variable frame rate that you receive in an IMAX theater, it's it's the attention to detail for even like the minutiae of everything. Um and the it's not just like 3D slapped onto something either. It's it's filmed with 3D in mind so that it's as immersive as possible. It feels like you were watching a movie in in VFR, basically, you know? Yeah, but not VFR. Um in the city.
SPEAKER_01:Like it I liked how it looked like um, you know, like the particles, like you were kind of in the water. Like it was almost like it was almost like 3D return to form in a way, but not in the campy. Like for a while, 3D was like you were kind of looking into a window, whereas like back in the day 3D used to like kind of pop off the screen. Now, now these movies, it's kind of like a a blend of both where like you're kind of looking into a window, but sometimes that window kind of it it it you know something from that window comes into the theater, you know? And that that that's where some of the some of the the world and like I said, you're in the water and some of the particle effects, it felt like it it was like actually in there.
SPEAKER_00:And and that's that was always the thing with Avatar, it's not like gimmicky 3D. Um it's it's immersive 3D in the sense that it makes you feel like you are present on Pandora. And that's part of the joy of seeing these films on like the biggest screen that you can is uh just that there's real there's no you'll never have that experience again once it's past the move the the theatrical window, which it's gonna be in theaters for months now. It's just gonna it's gonna be in theaters until it hits you know well past two billion. Um but the uh there's just something about it, you know, like it watching uh The Way of Water at home is great. I love it. It looks great on my screen. Uh these movies are beautiful. Um but without the the high frame rate that the movies are intended to be watched in, without the 3D, without the scale of an IMAX or a Dolby cinema, you're you're you're only getting a portion of the story, all honestly. Like this is basically you're you're only getting a portion of Avatar.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I I think that that's I love that, you know. There's something to be said about the way James Cameron approaches these films, and you may not like the story, you may not want him to continue making these movies, you may not want any of that, but there's no director out there alive who is doing as much action with as much heart in equal measure. You know, like there is there's scenes where it's gonna punch you in the gut, there's scenes where it's like heavy on the action, there's scenes where you're gonna cry because you're you know, you're you're basically experiencing the lives of this family trying to survive um this epic saga basically, and uh you you're on you're you're going for a ride, bro. And I think that that's the coolest thing. Like there's there's no there's no director doing it any doing anything like this.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. I I feel like everybody else is trying to do things that that are too safe, you know? Like they're trying to they're they're trying to you know whereas you know I I do I I do appreciate somebody that has like a you know like a a visual of like a world they want to build and then they actually put that that world out, you know, you know, but like I said, man, like the the the visuals are are some of the you know some of the made the the coolest things like the the world the floating mountains like everything in it looks beautiful, you know? Oh so something that you did mention and and I actually wanted your thoughts on that. The uh there there were yeah a few times that I did notice that the that the the um frame rate did change where like it went up to like 60 fps and then it would drop back down.
SPEAKER_00:Uh it jump it jumps between 48 and 24, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay. So yeah, it was like like when it when it moved when it jumped to like the higher uh frame frame rate that that took me that kind of like threw me off a little bit at first. I was like, whoa, it's like moving a lot faster now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it it just it jumps you into the action. My my only desire is that these were just straight 48 frames instead of uh 48 to 24 because what I'm very susceptible to is I get used to the 48 frames, and then when it's a slower scene, it looks jumpy because the frames they they double they double every frame after that point until it's a 48 or a 48 frame scene. So typical cinema, for those of you listening, is 24 frames per second. That is the cinematic quality that like most films have always you know you know used uh in terms of like there are 24 pictures for every second of a movie, you know, that's just standard. So 48 frames per second would be double that, and that allows the screen to move more fluidly. And a lot of times that doesn't look good in cinema. And there's a reason it doesn't look good in cinema, is because that it almost looks um camcorder y, you know, like it looks it makes it look like a video game, it makes it look something like something else. But In 3D, it actually heightens the 3D dimensions quite a bit because it makes the 3D much more fluid and it doesn't, you know, it causes less strain on the eyes. This is actually like uh scientifically, you know, studied, and like supposedly James Cameron has gone through and like made these uh adjustments so that this doesn't cause any eye strain um over the course of three hours and also you know allows you to be in the moment more and more. But my issue is when it jumps back down to 24 frames, for a second or two I can see the frames slower and it looks weird. So that would be a criticism that I have for these movies.
SPEAKER_01:Um Yeah, I I will say that that uh I do appreciate not feeling the yeah, like that eye strain of like, you know, of wearing or like watching something in 3D for for three hours. Um you know, because like I you know I've used you know I've used like VR and all stuff and like after a while man, like you just get kind of I but I know it's a different effect, but like you're still like viewing things something differently, and I know you know I've watched things in 3D where it's kind of like oh like you kind of get a bit of a headache, but you know, I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't really like feel that you didn't really you don't really get that with Avatar, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um and you know, I mean that that would suck because you know like you gotta sit there for three, you know, over three hours and you're like, oh my head is hurting and I'm halfway through, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I like the presentation of these movies quite a bit. I I think that the idea of making each of these movies event films where the draw is to see it in the theater, it keeps theaters alive, you know, it keeps these theater chains moving forward, and I think that that's the most important thing uh right now in uh in an in a year where some of the biggest movies of the year have underperformed tragically, you know? Who would have thought that Fantastic Four would be not a flop, but you know, if in any other setting it wouldn't get a sequel, you know, like it obviously it will get carried over because it's Marvel, um, and that kind of raises all ships, but if it was a standalone thing, that would not move forward.
SPEAKER_01:I think I I think that that that that's what the problem was though, just kind of the current state of Marvel. And I think that that's what didn't really help help out with that. But don't disagree. And especially, I mean, like we we covered some we we covered uh what do you call it? Uh Captain America 4 earlier last year, and you know, we we all were kind of uh but yeah, no, it's you know, I get I guess it's a I saw that in theaters.
SPEAKER_02:I saw that in theaters, guys.
SPEAKER_00:Good for you, honestly, good. Uh honestly it was. I do think that even if like the movie is bad, I do I'm a big proponent of supporting theaters as as a means for the prolifer the proliferation of art and this medium. You know, I think that that's like um a big part what even New Rock City, even New Rock City. Okay, so I gotta talk about that story. It was it was absolutely insane. I was so pissed off, guys. Uh opening night. So I okay, so tickets went on sale a month ago, whatever it was, for Avatar. I was so excited, dude. I bought at 9 a.m. on the dot the first tickets for the 7 7 p.m. showing at New Rock City, IMAX, a huge screen, um, second only to like the the Lincoln Center IMAX in the city. It's it's it's a it's a gorgeous spot to watch a movie, and I've done it for I did it for the last couple avatars as well. And dude, the the moment we sit down, I'm like, why isn't anything playing? I know we were there early, but like usually there's like trailers or like you know, just random commercials playing or whatever. Nothing was playing, and then like it starts, but there's no picture, and then it's like playing out of sync, and then all the lights turn off, and then it starts over. And dude, the power they they had like four power surges were that like were theater or multiplex-wide, not just like my theater auditorium, it was the entire theater uh at New Rock was was losing power, and apparently Con Ed was doing service uh like around there that day, and they did not tell the theater. So, opening night of the biggest movie of the year was a total flop, and they had to refund everybody. It was it was brutal. So I I only made it like 20 minutes into Avatar, Fire and Ash, the opening night, before I walked out. It was it was just unwatchable.
SPEAKER_01:Um other theater you like is uh Alamo Draft House, they didn't have anything going on special for that movie?
SPEAKER_00:So Alamo is great for you know just just watching movies. It's not really great for Avatar in terms like they don't there's no IMAX theaters in Alamo's, you know. There they are there are bigger screens, but they're not and and they have great great projectors and everything like that, but it's a different experience. Um so I wouldn't I wouldn't go to uh I I did go see The Way of Water there one time back in the day, but I wouldn't go back there for Fire and Ash, I don't think. Unless I was just like, you know, I'm in the area, I want to, you know, sit down and take a nap while watching something I like for three hours. I would do that.
SPEAKER_02:But I'll be I'll be 100% honest with you guys. Sometimes for me, like the the problem with Avatar, and you know, obviously we talk about seeing it in the theaters and that's what everyone wants to do, and I'm uh you know the worst because I didn't. But uh part of it for me was honestly the one was the runtime. I I've spoken about how my wife doesn't particularly like the movie. Uh so then I was like, oh I can bring Charlie, right? But then he's gonna watch six hours of preamble before we can get to the theater, and I just didn't think I was gonna be able to get that all in, you know. Uh and sometimes uh, you know, like Captain America last year I saw it, it it was in theaters during Christmas break. You know, that's also a big deal. Uh way when a movie gets released, I think um helps a lot. And then I get FOMO. So like I could have waited until this week, you know, and gone to see it in a properly nice theater, but I was like, I gotta see it, I gotta see it, I gotta, I gotta I gotta see what happens, I gotta see what happens. And if that urge overwhelms my ability to attend the theater, I will watch it by any means necessary. I know, I know, I know. I'm a villain, I know I'm a villain, I know I'm a villain, guys.
SPEAKER_01:Um where's where's that uh that lady from uh from Game of Thrones? Shame with the bell.
SPEAKER_02:Shame you know what? You know what? When what are you two guys uh I mean we have a Game of Thrones actress in this movie?
SPEAKER_01:Is there anybody else but Varang?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, Varang was uh that was cool.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah, Varang is great. I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think there are any other looks.
SPEAKER_01:Although she did she doesn't uh she doesn't last long in in Game of Thrones, but unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00:Spoiler alert spoiler alert, man.
SPEAKER_01:Look, if you haven't seen Game of Thrones and it ended in like 2017, we are we are past the we're we're past the embargo.
SPEAKER_00:I do love the red red red wedding reactions. Whenever I pop up on one online, I have to sit and watch it because it's just like people get so upset, and it's totally warranted, you know?
SPEAKER_01:It's like it's if you weren't prepped after the first season, it's like come on.
SPEAKER_00:You're not really I mean after after that you're prepped for everything, you know, like nothing surprises you after that point, but you know, you you really aren't.
SPEAKER_02:It did lead to uh it did lead to a a fantastic sports moment for me uh as a Red Bulls fan. The Red Bulls once beat uh the their rivals, the New York s New York City FC. They beat them seven to nothing at Yankee Stadium and they called it the Red Wedding. Uh because it was, you know, seven, I mean in soccer, seven goals is uh on the sidelines after like the seventh goal. I think like the players pretended to like pitch a home run to each other or something. Like it was embarrassing. So that's terrible. Uh I I particularly like it's I it's so weird because the red wedding made me so angry and so upset. And then because it got associated with this game, I was like, ha ha ha ha Red Wedding, and it it never bothered me anymore.
SPEAKER_00:Well, Rich, thankfully this movie will remain in theaters for a couple of months, so you got time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go check it out. I actually I don't think I'll go to New Rock because that's the same exact IMAX theater that when I went to go watch um the oh my goodness. The Lord of the Rings uh Lord of the Rings, yeah. Yeah, uh I went to go watch that's the theater, that's the same theater where I sat down, watched the previews three times in a row, and then they said it's not working.
SPEAKER_00:I I would still recommend it, just because it's the biggest IMAX screen in your area. I know you don't want to, but it is actually like it's working 99% of the time.
SPEAKER_02:It just when you guys say look support local theaters, the the the Marinek Theater is I mean by car four and a half minutes, all right, all right. 90% of the time there's nobody in the theater, and it is the greatest experience. Just make how far? It's like five. I mean, what I I I'm not joking when I say that we can get in the car and be like in the seats in like ten minutes. Oh with popcorn. Like there's no never a line, like it I don't know how they stay open. I think I think there must be some sort of private guy who just wants there to be a theater there. The the only thing I would say is try to get a 3D showing. Yeah, that'll do.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know if they do that at the Mamarinek one, but uh Yeah, yeah, like honestly to tell you the truth.
SPEAKER_01:Like I like I'll watch and when I say like l literally any Marvel movie, I don't care like how I watch it. Avatar it's one of those ones where I'm like it's gotta be IMAX 3D because I know how it is visually. Yeah, like it's just it like I'm just like there's just no other way. There's just no other way. Like I don't care, like I'll watch I'll watch a Marvel movie on a Game Boy screen, but like Avatar, uh it's gotta be.
SPEAKER_00:But even like Star Wars, I love Star Wars. I don't care if I see it in IMAX, I don't care if it's 3D. I don't think I just because it doesn't change the story. Right. Those films aren't meant to be seen in 3D or IMAX or anything like that. This is yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So for sure. Like, I mean it's it though the way that it's filmed, the way that it's meant to be, like it it already looks good. Like you said, like it already looks good when you're watching it at home, but like when you're watching it on something bigger and like kind of you know, like you said, it's it's more of an experience, you know, than anything. So I mean, yeah, dude, you gotta like yeah, you it's one of those ones that you have to catch it. Like, you know, even you know, even my dad's like the same way. He's like, yeah, no, this is like he didn't go to the theater. Yeah, he's he's Jack Sparrow. No, he goes to the theaters for these. And he'll watch it. IMAX he'll spend the money for IMAX 3D for these movies.
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna infuriate you guys. I saw Zootopia 2.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm saying it's like I did pay for a movie, I did go to the theaters and I saw Zootopia 2. It was lovely. Yeah, that's a funny. But I didn't have like I said, it's the time again, it's a time investment as is another issue. It's disappearing from my house for three and a half hours, telling my wife and my kid. Rich, if you bring too much.
SPEAKER_01:Rich, you already do that when you when you binge watch stuff for for like three times in a row. Like you're practically disappearing when you do that.
SPEAKER_00:Alright, let's let's let's move the subject along. Uh because we're we're getting pretty late into this podcast. Let's uh quickly talk about some of the characters that we liked, disliked, whatever. Um, Spider, did you guys enjoy his storyline? Um any any standout scenes? I like Spider. I I'm trying to think of something that I mean. He's a character everyone either loves or hates.
SPEAKER_02:The problem with him is like, yeah, see, I just think he can be kind of annoying. Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's he's annoying, and I just like I associate him with Quaric, and Quarrich is so much cooler. I'm like, man, your your fake dad is so much cooler than you. You know, like and when the when it ends up being him that has the mycelium, I'm like, oh really? That guy? As opposed to who? Uh I don't know, it should have been Grace, man. Should have been Grace. She should have Oh, okay. I see. You know, yeah, alright. Uh but no, I mean, yeah, I think that's what he's just not as interesting as other people. I don't like hate him, but like I'm not gonna put him in my top five like Marvel, you know, sidekicks. Anthony?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I I would agree. Like, I don't I'm not gonna sit here and be like I hate him or anything. Um you know, I I I kind of understand you know his like existence. You know, he's kinda I like you kind of feel bad for him because you know, like he he cares for the the Navi, but like you know, he's not one of the Navi. But sometimes his he can be a bit annoying, you know? Yeah, I don't know, it's just like it kind of it's kind of like you know, go away sometimes.
SPEAKER_00:But right, right, right. On a technical level, on a technical level, what they were capable of doing with Spider is just unbelievable because this is an entirely computer generated world where you have to put a normal-sized person playing against people who are uh one point five 1.5 times his normal size, you know, like so like the the capability of making that look normal throughout the entire movie with seam like seamlessly. Like there are no seams in this movie. It's it's amazing. It's it's true movie magic. I am so impressed with what they're doing with Spider. Um, as far as the character goes, um, yeah, I agree he can be annoying, but charmingly annoying, if if that makes sense. Like, I don't dislike the character, I actually like the character, and some of like the the corny acting and stuff is almost charming to me. Um, so I don't I don't hate him in that respect. I will say one of my favorite scenes is the scene that uh uh Jake Soley decided that he's gotta go, you know. Um and it was it was like the Abraham and Isaac scene.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, you know what? I got a lot of things. I caught that.
SPEAKER_01:I caught that.
SPEAKER_02:I was watching it and I was like, Dak's got this. I was like, I don't even need to bring it up. So I'm glad you remembered to bring it up because when that scene happened, I was like, Dakota is like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:I was bawling my eyes out. I I I legit felt that scene hit me so hard. Because like I know that Jake loves this kid. I know that Jake wants what's best for this kid, but the the restraint it took to you know actually go 90 99% of the way to killing this kid, you know? And and it was the part where uh Spider goes, I know I have to go to AWA now, but do you still love me? And he goes, with all my heart, oh dude, I I was I was a mess. I every time I watched it, I'm just like, I I can't believe this is actually like a thing that's happening in a movie in 2025. Uh the the Dakota is such a strong scene.
SPEAKER_01:Bro, like I I just wanted my boy to channel his inner Anakin, man. I was about to be like Sheeve, like, do it. Now I was playing. No, no. I no, it it it was like a like a heightened, you know, like emotional moment, but I did catch like the the um Abraham and Idol kind of like parallel, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh man, it it killed me. Um beautiful scene, beautiful, and also like that was the turning point for Natiri too. Like um she's washing the red paint off of her face and she's looking at her hands and it's all bloody red. And she's watching the she's she's trying to wash, it's almost like symbolic that she's trying to wash the blood off of her, and it and she's in in unable to. So she runs into the forest to tell Jake, stop, stop, stop. And that's the first time she sees a spider for who who he is, you know. It's not just he's a human, he's bad. This is someone they've lived with for 15-16 years at this point, you know, that Jake almost killed. And that's when she says, which is the most powerful thing uh a nov not V can say to someone, is I see you, you know? It's more than I love you, it's more than I care for you, or anything like that. It's I see you. It's basically like I understand and I respect you. And that's the first time that she ever did that to Spider. And I thought that that was so that that was like the cherry on top of the cake for that scene. So that was that that might be my favorite scene of the movie.
SPEAKER_01:Right, and she and she had like a heightened level of like hostility towards him, especially because you know that you know it's on the heels of what happened in the last film, you know.
SPEAKER_00:With yeah, Natam's yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and so it was the you know, the humans that caused that. So, like when you see this individual that's obviously connected to to these people over there, it's you know, it's she was having a hard time separating, you know, like that no, he's different.
SPEAKER_00:There's there's another great scene with Natyria, actually, um, where Jake Sully basically calls her out and says, You hate all the pink skins. And then she's she like she admits it, she's just like, I hate their pink little hands, I hate the insanity in their minds. Um and the the acting in that scene, dude. I know this is computer-generated graphics, but it's based on real performances. It's not just motion capture, it's performance capture. That's the entire body of the character being reinterpreted in this computer-generated program. And the acting in that scene, dude, is it's next level, and it's it's some of the best acting I've seen in 2025 in general. Just like um when when when Jake says you feel ashamed of your your kids whenever they do something wrong, you think that that's the human in them. And she eventually admits that yes, she is, uh, and then she kind of just breaks down. Oh my god, it's such a good scene. And the the the way that uh Sam Worthington, who plays Jake Sully, and uh Zoe Saldania, who plays Natiri, Carrie, a lot of this movie is just incredible. Uh another Nayti scene is is the the scene where she breaks Jake out of the human prison. Crazy. What what insanity, dude. Like uh there's there's so many great scenes in this movie. I and I really, really do want to talk more about it. But um I do like to have.
SPEAKER_01:They they you know there's some people on the human side that was trying to stop that whole like you know genocide that was being planned, you know.
SPEAKER_00:The the Tool kun genocide, yeah, for the Calf Communion. We had uh Dr. Ian Garvin um played by uh your boy uh Jermaine, Jermaine Clement from I know, I've seen him as I owe to his my boy. I love him. I don't know why they they they didn't let him have his uh his Kiwi accent, but because they because they let uh they let Scoresby, they let the other guy have his his uh uh uh New Zealand accent.
SPEAKER_01:Right? Yeah, yeah. They they could have done it. I actually like it better like when he had when he talks with that accent.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I I guess maybe it would it would make people think too much of Fly of the Concords, or like I don't know. Oh yeah. But yeah, he he he helped out. I I'm I'm glad that they they didn't make it so that it's like all humans are bad. You know, that's not the point of the movie. It's colonization and deforestation and uh mass killing for profit is bad, you know, like that's that's what they're fighting against. And yeah. Uh final thoughts on Avatar, Fire and Ash people. Oh, wait, no, no, no, I got one more question. What do you guys think of the revelation that Katie is a clone of her mother, that she doesn't have a father, everything. I'm gonna send it over to Rich.
SPEAKER_02:So, I mean, I I I wonder if that like you know, it's problematic in terms of like the culture. It's kind of like the problem that you kind of look at with Jigsuley almost that he would face, right? I mean, she's cloned from Grace's action. From you know, but but that's also not really an avatar, not really a Navi, you know, so right.
SPEAKER_00:So she's she's even more of a freak, that's what she says.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, and it I think, you know, and in it makes her I think it like in in terms of story, it gives her reason to further um further bond with Jake and Spider and feeling like uh you know, understanding the kind of being an outsider because of something well, I mean, she had no choice in the matter whatsoever, so she actually has like more beef with the matter than Jake than Jake does because Jake picked it. But um I think it just kind of makes her another one of the others that in this in this story.
SPEAKER_00:Anthony, uh, what did you think of Gre uh Kiri being uh a clone of Grace, but also someone who can channel Awa.
SPEAKER_01:Well like I mean like I mean it it makes sense, um and I I I guess that like it's something that that should have been like outed sooner because of like how much how much like she does look like Grace, you know? So I I'm pr like I'm I'm it's just like she would have found out like eventually, you know. Um and I guess like her being able to channel Awa is just because it was rejecting at first, right? So it was almost like I guess that was weird too, yeah the body and the mind kind of being acclimated to it and like being accepted, like so Yeah, they never really gave us a reason why Kitty wasn't being answered, like like her her prayers weren't being answered, like it was almost like rejection.
SPEAKER_00:Um not just ignoring.
SPEAKER_01:I think when when the revelation hit, like that's why they were kind of like, oh well, this is you know, you're getting rejected because you're a clone.
SPEAKER_00:That could be it, yeah. I like that. I like that a lot. But eventually Awa heard um and helped them in in their final battle.
SPEAKER_01:What do you think about that visual a the visualization of like Ewa, like when she was finally accepted?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, of the like the the side profile face kind of like turning towards her slowly. I don't really have a a strong opinion one way or other. Because we haven't really a striking visual. No, that's this is a first. Yeah, this is the first thing that we've ever seen of like that. It was a striking visual, um, and uh it was a really good narrative cue that we finally got resolution to at the end. Um basically with the help of uh Spider and Took, she was able to eventually reach AW. Oh, even actually, this that that that excuse me, that was a really cool scene because they're walking and then they're swimming through the air. Like I that was a really cool transition, and I don't obviously like I don't know how they did it, but it looks so good. Um, and so much of this movie just looks so good, but yeah. Yeah, I I feel like we're we're an hour thirty into this podcast, and I could continue to just regurgitate regur regurgitate scenes that I think are like crazy good or whatever. Right, right. I think we should start to wrap it up.
SPEAKER_01:Um, we still have like you know, like another hour and a half to to cover, you know, to we have to reach the length of the movie.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we we can. Let's not, but we can. Um let's not uh my my voice is gonna crap out on me soon. But um, yeah. Rich, final thoughts on Avatar, Fire and Ash.
SPEAKER_02:I'm willing to pay money to go see it in the theater, despite the fact that I've seen it three times already.
SPEAKER_00:We have we have sold Rich.
SPEAKER_02:Alright, so that's that's uh I don't uh I don't usually use this as a barometer for for anything, but uh I I think I think you are doing yourself uh and and your kid a d discredit uh a discredit if you if you don't do this.
SPEAKER_00:Personally, I I I I do believe that just because your kid's gonna remember this. I remember seeing Avatar in 2009. I remember being completely blown away. This is that to the next level. So you know.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, I I don't uh I'd recommend it. Uh, you know, I mean the names, oof, I don't know, but uh but other than that, you know, if they if they were just named like, you know, Billy, you know, or or Will Will the Wise, you know, like then then I would be able to uh really really connect. No, but I I thought it was uh I thought it was really fun. Uh you know, I don't it's it's still not my favorite franchise. Um yeah, that's understandable. You know, it's it's it's still not Star Wars level, you know. And I mean the world building is massive. I gotta give them credit, you know. Um I do need some like salacious crumb, like extra facts, you know. Uh just naming random people and giving me a full backstory and some sort of encyclopedia. I think that's what I need.
SPEAKER_00:Rich, I think you would really like Frontiers of Pandora because it does have that open world aspect, that questline aspect that you tend to uh enjoy with has the Red Dead Redemption, you know, kind of look it's like yeah, it's it's Red Dead, The Witcher, it's it's got that open world aspect to it, but in Avatar, uh like Pandora, you know?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, uh yeah, I I want I totally want another game where I can sit down and do things that I could just do in real life, like go get done, but I I don't Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You want to learn how to cook uh 50 different meals by collecting random objects and fruits and roots from around the world?
SPEAKER_02:I know I should have made this hand. I I know I should have made this podcast longer, but my wife was asking me, she was watching me play something, and she's like, you know, well aren't you collecting like those plants or whatever? I was like, listen, I don't get into the I don't get into the what is the alchemy stuff, I don't get into the the potion making, I don't get into the crazy look. I made some Deathclaw Wellington completely by mistake in Fallout. I didn't search it out, okay. I uh I I that's one aspect of these games that that for some reason I'm I'm just averse to, and also I dislike going to stop and shop. So I don't know if it has anything to do with one or the other, but fair enough, fair enough.
SPEAKER_00:But you I I do recommend the game to you if if you want to live in a world for a little bit longer. Thanks, man. Anthony, final thoughts on Fire and Ash.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, man, it's visually stunning. You know, like like we've been saying several times, this is definitely something that's worth going to see in the movie theater. Um you know, especially IMAX 3D. Um if you can't do 3D, because I know uh some people are like sensitive to 3D, uh definitely IMAX. Just you know, enjoy it on a large screen. Um, yeah, I'm with I'm with you, you know, support theaters because if they were to go away, we would miss out on experiences like this. You know, you won't be able to see those you know Avenger level movies or Star Wars level movies, so yeah, man. Go go out there and watch and and enjoy.
SPEAKER_00:I agree with that sentiment. Uh, you know, that by keeping theaters alive, we keep cinema alive. And uh Avatar Fire and Ash is a really great time. I I I really enjoyed it. I've I've really enjoyed going to see it a couple times now, um, and just living in this world a little bit longer. It's amazing what Cameron uh has thought up in terms of this world and the world building and the story that he wants to tell. Um, and yeah, it may not be the most original story, but it still has a crazy amount of heart, it still has a crazy amount of action, and it never leaves you wanting, you know, like you're never going to leave this, you're never gonna leave a uh Avatar movie saying there just wasn't enough of this, you know? There's so much of everything, and I think that that's really cool. Um, it's just it's just one of those uh really fun times, and honestly, might be a top MCU movie for me, might top three. Um, yeah. So, guys, thank you so much for listening to us here for episode 146 of Project Geekology. Uh, next week we're going down to Twin Peaks. I hope you guys uh have either watched or will watch this uh Twin Peaks before we cover the show because I guarantee you're in for a ride, one way or the other. And yeah, I I wish I could be be present to watch some of your reactions to some of these scenes because you're gonna be watching stuff in in Twin Peaks and being like, this is gonna be important later. This is gonna be important later. And it's not. It's not, it's just it's just uh David Lynch being an insane person behind the camera. It is so fun, and uh, I can't wait for you guys to watch this.
SPEAKER_01:I'll be waiting for the rich text. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:Please give us, please give us some uh, you know, just make sure that we're all you know at that episode, Rich. By the time you start watching and starting. No problem.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'll give I'll give a warning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we uh we need that commentary. It's it's gonna be uh yeah, anyway. Guys, thank you so much. If you want to check us out uh and on any of our socials, be sure to click down into our show notes uh for more. And we'll see you next week, or hear you, or you'll hear us rather. Old Nati Kamaya, I see you.
SPEAKER_02:The Wolverine.
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