Project Geekology

Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) - REVISITED

• Dakota, Rich • Episode 140

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A gaming detour. A bold new audiobook format. And then a plunge into the oceanic heart of Avatar: The Way of Water that even a skeptical co-host didn’t expect to love. We start with Oblivion’s sprawling quest design and the surprising charm of getting lost without markers, then pivot to Audible’s full-cast Harry Potter experiment—layered narration, ambient sound, and voices that feel like theater without sacrificing storytelling. That production craft becomes our springboard to Pandora, where performance capture turns pixels into people and water into memory.

Once we hit the reefs, we get personal. We talk about what makes this sequel feel richer: a family on the run, new biomes that force growth, and a community whose bodies and culture have evolved for the sea. Quaritch’s return as a recombinant lands like wicked irony—becoming what he hates to destroy it—and Kiri’s mystery hums in the background, a soulful knot tied by Sigourney Weaver’s uncanny performance. We dig into Spider’s controversial choices, Neytiri’s razor-edged grief, and the moral weight of the tulkun: a people with philosophy and song, set against human whaling that extracts Amrita with chilling efficiency. The effect isn’t just visual spectacle; it’s worldbuilding with ethics, family, and cost.

We don’t shy away from the hard hits. Neteyam’s death, the suffocating tension aboard a sinking ship, and that scream of loss—all of it reminds us why this story lingers after the credits. We also peek at canon comics like The High Ground, how they frame the one-year gap, and why the film’s more grounded path was the right call. Whether you’re here for the tech, the tulkun, or the tangled loyalties, this conversation surfaces the reasons The Way of Water converts skeptics and rewards rewatchers.

If this ride stirred something, follow the show, share with a friend who loves Pandora, and drop a five-star review so others can find us. Then tell us: did Spider make the right call?

Twitter handles:
Project Geekology: https://twitter.com/pgeekology
Anthony's Twitter: https://twitter.com/odysseyswow
Dakota's Twitter: https://twitter.com/geekritique_dak

Instagram:
https://instagram.com/projectgeekology?igshid=1v0sits7ipq9y

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@projectgeekology

Geekritique (Dakota):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBwciIqOoHwIx_uXtYTSEbA

Alien (1979) Explained | Timeline, Canon, and Lore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9nmyTTlMvo

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SPEAKER_01:

The way of water has no beginning and no end. And neither, it seems, does this podcast. Uh welcome to episode 140 of Project Ecology. Uh I am one half of your host today. We usually have three hosts, but today only half of us are here. Or two-thirds of us are here, I should say. Yeah. I'm one half of your host, Dakota, and I'm joined as always with Rich, who's always confused by math, but missing our boy, Anthony.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh hopefully you're having a good time. We'll see you soon, man.

SPEAKER_01:

Next week, buddy, you better be here. Um, because I'm running out of ideas about how to run this thing. I'm running right into the ground. We were covering something today that we actually covered a couple years ago. So this is our first time in Project Ecology history that we've gone back to a title as the main topic of our discussion today. Uh so but it's a movie I love. I'm hoping to have a really nice discussion. Rich, this is your first time checking this out. Uh, and I think last week was your first time watching Avatar. So I'm excited to hear what you think. Before we jump into any of that though, what have you been up to this past week? Anything cool?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh just uh diving headfirst into uh Cyrodil once again. So the world of uh Oblivion.

SPEAKER_01:

Oblivion.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

I uh so it's so weird because I I still and this time I I knew better, but I remember the first time playing it. I became the archmage of the uh of the mages guild before I stepped into one oblivion gate. And then I stepped foot into one oblivion gate, and I called my friend and I said, Frank, what is this? He's like, What do you mean? Like he he goes, You're what? And he comes over and he's like, You're the ma you're the archma how did you do that without doing any of this, which is the beauty of the game, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Like Yeah, I love it. It's such a good game.

SPEAKER_02:

And I then sold it and uh rebought it. Like basically the Oblivion Gates it's so you know my and I realized what my problem with the game was, uh is that you know you have a quest for everything. You have quest markers, right? The Oblivion Gates, the premise is that you have to find the stone, right? But the the the inside of the gates are a different realm, and they're m pretty massive. Like they're they're very like the it's not a a small scope, at least they do a good job visually to make it feel large. Uh it's dark, it's dr it's downright frightening. The monsters you face or the demons are frightening. And there's no quest. Right? There's no quest marker. One of them had these three towers, and I had to get to the top of one of them, and I accidentally stumbled upon a lever that then apparently changed the the place of where the bridges were meeting of the towers, so then I had to go to three levels down and one to go up.

SPEAKER_01:

It changed the dynamics of the game for you in a way that it was no longer enjoyable. Like you you were built or you built this uh understanding with the game, this repertoire that was total totally shifted as soon as you entered the Oblivion Gates, is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, then I bought the game of the year edition. Like I I basically could go back and forth on this thing. So this is probably like my fourth or something purchase of Oblivion.

SPEAKER_01:

But I uh uh do you how how do how are you in terms of like do you prefer Oblivion or Skyrim? For me, for me, I am more I I think I've probably played Skyrim more at this point, but in terms of nostalgia, I think Oblivion just kind of just hits different for me, and I would go with that, and I think the soundtrack is perhaps a little bit more invigorating. I don't know what I don't know what to say, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well I do I really uh I mean I love Skyrim. I I I don't think I was really ready for Oblivion, but when Skyrim came out, I was ready for Skyrim. I remember I think I asked for it for Christmas. Like Lauren, my wife got it for me. Uh she also got me a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue and a uh remote a wand that acted as a remote control for TV. Which sounds really cool until you have to go like you have to flick your wrist up 17 times to raise the volume, and then you're like uh you're just gonna use the remote, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

Like this is this was fun for a day, but um just going in the shelf, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But that game, I remember that was you know, my f I I was teaching, I didn't have a kid yet. It was Christmas, I got that game, and I had two weeks, and I think it like there was a blizzard that that year, so I was like trapped inside, like I couldn't go outside. My friend, I enjoyed Skyrim so much that I I don't think Red Dead Red Red Dead Redemption 2, I was talking about many times on this podcast, is one of my favorite games. Because of the emotional highs and lows I think it takes me through. I just love Skyrim. It's just I I get giddy about going around. I love I love the memes. I don't know if you've seen these videos of there's this young lady I've seen who goes around just speaking Skyrim dialogue, like in Polish.

SPEAKER_01:

I have. And I feel like that's that's something that's uh I feel like that's something that people have been doing for a while. Well, I'm behind on stuff. Slightly boomer here, but I uh Well what was it? There was like uh some I forget like there's like quotes like someone shot my leg or like my kneecap.

SPEAKER_02:

The arrow through the kneecap was a big uh thing for a while. Or like the mud crabs or something like that. Yeah. So it's so I mean I love it, but I I am what's really crazy about Oblivion is dude, there's some missions or some quests that I remember every beat of that quest. Wow. And then there are others that I'm like, what did I did this? And it's like so annoying, and I can't re I don't even remember how I possibly got through it. So uh it's been it's been kind of fun, uh, to be honest with you. My even my wife sat down and like she admired the graphics, and you know, she has no idea what it being a 2006 game remastered. She just said it looked really nice. Uh and uh Patrick Stewart, right? The only issue, I'll let I'll leave you with this, is that I uh I really rushed through the creation suite. I I just didn't want to to spend the time on it for some reason. So this character only vaguely, very I wouldn't even you'd have to be really far away and like drunk at night to to say that's rich. Okay? Like it's it's not it's not my best. It doesn't have mu they don't have mutton chops. So I kind of once I see that it doesn't have mutton chops in a game, I get really disheartened and I try I I kind of lose all all hope. Every time my wife walks in and she sees the character, she goes, Hey, looks nothing like you. Like, and I know that until I beat this, she's gonna keep saying that. And then uh the worst part is that she has been seeing when I save how many hours it says I've logged, and like I only got it like a week ago because I bought her Animal Crossing. So I did like a double, I got her Animal Crossing for the Switch, and I got myself this, and I've vlogged like 61 hours. She's like, You've vlogged over two days straight of gaming? I'm like, that's uh misleading. I press pause and walk away.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, if you press pause and use the bathroom, or you know, I just didn't turn the thing off last night. See? Yeah, no, I hear you. So it's fun. What have you been up to? Uh not a whole lot. I as of yesterday, the actually this is this is actually pretty cool, and I've been very excited about it. Um, and I've only been very excited about it for a very short period of time, but like as soon as I learned that it was coming, I've been very on board just because of the idea of it. So Audible started releasing like a new version of the Harry Potter Audiobooks, which is a full cast audiobook. And you're shaking your head, but I'm gonna I'm just gonna big thumbs down, Dak. Big thumbs down. Okay. Well, um, I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_02:

Wait, wait, why are you because Okay, because I think that listeners to the show, I'm not sure if you guys know this, but the original audiobooks are produced by a lovely gentleman named Jim Dale. Uh, on behalf of original American original American audiobooks.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And Jim Dale in the UK they have Stephen Fry. Oh, do they? Really? This the Stephen Fry? The Stephen Fry, yeah. He's really good too. So Jim I prefer Jim Dale over it because it's it's uh nostalgic for me. But yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02:

I Jim Dale's voice, man. Like the voices he does. He does all voices for all the characters, like he's got some sort of little, you know, petunia. And like some of them are not even great, like the the women sometimes are are just god-awful. But I I love if there's and you know what it is, it's probably just a nostalgia. It's just like me saying, like, I'm never gonna like City Field, you know, uh, because I love Chase Stadium so much. So I'll probably listen to it and go, Oh, this is a great experience. But before so I'm being mean to you here, but before even listening to it, I'm just like, I love my Jim Dale.

SPEAKER_01:

Like his No, and that I that's the thing, it'll always be there. Um, and I've I've listened to the Jim Dale audiobooks multiple times over throughout the years. Um, it's you know, whenever I go on a road trip, those are the go-to, you know, like I got a 10-hour trip. I can throw on one of these books and be uh finished or mostly finished with all of them, or like at least one of them, you know. But uh I I'm I got really excited about it, not because of who was in the cast, just but but more because it wasn't an audio drama. I have I have an issue I I don't dislike audio dramas where they they you know like they add sound effects, they add uh music, they you know, they kind of make it feel like a movie in your mind. But a lot of what I love about uh novels and audiobooks is hearing the narration. Um and most of Harry Potter is like so necessary for you to get into the minds of the characters that narration is like the most important person in the story, just because that's that's the voice of you know the story, basically. So I I I was always wary of the audio drama aspect of it. And what's cool about this is that it's an audio book, you know, they have a narrator, but they have unique voices for every character, so they have actors for everyone. There's there's over 200 actors that they've you know recorded. Um, and so they've already recorded all seven books, and they're gonna release them month after month.

SPEAKER_02:

So you this is probably not the last time that you've you think that uh you've heard you you'll hear me talk about this just because if a character is speaking, yeah, and then then and then let's say the dialogue you know stops and it says said Dursley. They do it really well, right?

SPEAKER_01:

And I I that's that's the one thing that I was like, how are they gonna do that? Yeah, they so they actually layer on top of each other. So sometimes you'll hear the narrator like saying, you know, the the Dursleys were getting uh like making breakfast in the morning. So you hear like the the bacon sizzling on the stove in the background, you hear like a newspaper crumpling, uh, you'll hear the grumblings of like Vernon Dursley and like uh Dudley's running in the background saying something, and then all of this is being said while or all of this is being done while the narrator is saying something. And then like as the line comes up, they just say it out loud, and the narrator just like Vernon said, you know, and it's it's just like it's it's super smooth. I I'm I'm like really surprised about it. Um there's only been a couple times where I'm just like I wish the actor's voice line there was just a little higher because I I kind of had a hard time understanding what they were saying, and that only happened like twice. But um yeah, I've I've gotten really used to it at this point, and it's uh it's definitely a fresh take, especially because the narrator's a female voice. Oh so it gives a different feel to it, yeah. But no, it's it's it's a fantastic uh piece of audio engineering. Like, I don't think I've ever listened to anything as high production in terms of like an audiobook ever, you know. And I'm used to like Star Wars books always having like large productions in terms of there's music and there's blaster fire and there's the sound of lightsabers. You have, you know, like the sound effects in this, but you also have a full cast drama, you have layered audio, you have it's it's a it's a really impressive thing. I I I don't usually you know like recommend things super lightly, um, but I'm really, really impressed with what they did here. And the fact that they have one of these coming out every month is also uh just just kind of exciting, you know? Just you may have swayed me, sir. You may have swayed me. At least to check it out, you know. If you have an extra credit on Audible or whatever, it's you're not gonna put it to waste by getting that uh for sure. Like it's super solid.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, speaking of swaying, the other thing that uh swaying is the waves in the way of water.

SPEAKER_01:

What uh what a massive segue. I love it, I love it. The the waves are definitely flowing, they're they're swaying in the background. Yeah, let's let's divert our attention to Avatar. Rich. Alright, I guess I'll I'll just say a little something. Like if you hadn't w listened to if you hadn't listened to our previous recording of uh The Way of Water or our last podcast um on Avatar, you may not realize this, but Avatar The Way of Water is probably my favorite movie of the past ten years. Um it's just it was probably you know on par cinema-wise with uh going to see Force Awakens again. Going into it, it necess it wasn't necessarily like that. That level of hype going into the Way of Water was not Force Awakens level for me, but the actual experience of seeing this in theater and then seeing it again and again and again was on par with the Force Awakens experience with me. So that's that's kind of where I'm sitting at. And I love this movie, and I can't wait for the third movie. Uh in a month, yeah, it's coming out next month. So I'm I'm very excited about that. But Rich, this is your first time checking out this movie. Reiterate your position coming into it after having seen the first movie, and explain if that's changed at all, or if you enjoyed this more or less, and you know w what do you have to say?

SPEAKER_02:

I I don't think I was all right, so I was kind of non-plussed at the end of the first one. I didn't think it was anything super special. At the same time, I didn't uh have any problems with it. I mean I did speak briefly to the fact that my my wife uh strongly uh some of the the the themes, whatever, and and you know, I I kinda I kind of saw some of that, but not strong enough to get me uh very riled up. Uh but again, nothing that really overly wowed me. I mean I will add, I mean I think I I mentioned this, but I uh you know I didn't see it on a big screen, you know, I didn't see it in 3D. So that's a big part of it as well. You know, I know that these movies uh you know, and it's timely. Uh I'm I'm sure Dakota, you didn't do this uh accidentally, but you know, the next one's coming out very soon, so now like there is this momentum going into it, you know, where I I have more vested interest in it. And and I will say I I really didn't I don't know, I was just like I just watch what we're gonna watch, so I didn't question watching it. I didn't dread it. The I think my my biggest problem with it was uh it was just the length. Uh so I didn't go to the theater to watch it. I obviously I watched that at home and I, you know, tend to just like binge things, but also have to go like clean the barbecue for 45 minutes and come back and then put it on. Like I'm I will oddly watch things in a disjointed manner and the length of this movie just uh and just kind of the way my week flowed. It I I I think it took me like two and a half to three days to watch it. Like I just kept I kept like because I like to when I'm watching something for the show, especially, I like to be more focused on it. Uh Oblivion didn't help. Like basically it's right. If I'm gonna play my card put my cards on the table, everybody out there, okay? MLB The Show is a fantastic game to play while you're watching stuff. I don't have the volume on, I don't have to pay more. It's mindless. You know? Yeah, it's just I just kind of just hit the button, hit the ball, pitch. It's pretty easy. I play on the easiest of the game. Oblivion is not that game. No. And I was I was just I had to pick and choose. I I I tried I tried to do both, and I think my brain just went nope. And I and I had to stop. So I uh it was the the length was the only thing that I think uh maybe kind of detracted, but that's probably I'm gonna put that on myself.

SPEAKER_01:

So by the end of it, I'm it is like three hours twenty minutes or something like that. It's it's a long film, it's not it's not not something to you know gloss over.

SPEAKER_02:

Go ahead. But I um by the end of it, I wanted more content, and I don't think I could say that after the first one.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, all right. So you got the bug by the end of it. You got you you were into the vibe of what was going on to a point where you got so invested in the world while you were watching it, you know, over the course of so many days, basically you're waiting for a season two, because that's kind of how you binged it, right? You you binged it kind of like a TV show.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's just just like uh, you know, they follow the path of uh William Shatner, and they follow the path of of the young boy in Free Willy, right? Because if you want audiences to love you, you know what you gotta do? Or wait, even even uh Dave Faloney, even Dave Faloni was like, you know what we need? You know what this story needs? It needs some whales. It needs whales, ladies and gentlemen. Once you put whales in a movie, nobody can be angry at it. It's almost like just like you just can't do it's so peaceful.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's like it becomes too peaceful, but you get the people going when you have a villain that's very anti-whal.

SPEAKER_02:

This guy, ladies and gents. If you didn't listen to the last episode, and uh, I just want to say there is this been this continuing prank that's being pulled on me that I'm told that somebody is dead. You I mean, I ended last week's episode 100% convinced that I was right and that Sigurdney Weaver's character was gonna come back because I felt like you were indicating that somebody would be back. And little did I know that you really laid the groundwork. You were like, wow, what a great villain. It would be so great if he could come back, wouldn't it? And I'm like, there's no path for him to come back. I'm like, what are you talking about? Little did I know that they were engineering Navi uh, you know, clones. I mean, what would they call it? Avatars, yeah. What would they call it in um recons. Well, what would they call it in the alien universe, though? They're uh they're like the children, right?

SPEAKER_01:

They're uh synthetics? Synthetics, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so uh I guess the hybrid. Yeah, it would it would be a hybrid novies, these because they they uh implant their genetic memories and DNA into the recombinant, you know, avatar.

SPEAKER_02:

By the way, the level I I'm I'm just gonna kind of playfully mention this, right? Because like I'll look past it, right? But it's just like like you're like the the general is like he's there and his crew, right? They're so racist against the Navi that they'll become the Navi to get rid of the Navi. And it's like that kind of like tickles me a little bit, you know. Like right, it's like, man, I hate those blue skinned guys. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna be like, and I know he didn't want that, right? But I'm gonna become blue-skinned, you know. But even like the video where he's like, I'm making this because the company made me make it, because I might be dead one day, but that's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00:

It's just like so.

SPEAKER_01:

And even like So in the first Avatar movie, when Jake Soly is first, you know, like discussing his trip uh into like the the Navi sanctuary and in Home Tree and all that with Quaric. Quaric is like, you know, this is great that we have someone on the inside, and he goes, I wish we had 10 more like you. What happens? Someone someone overheard him when he said that, or like he just he put this program into, you know, like this is a great idea. We need more soldier avatar people. Anyway, whatever the whatever the logic here was, um, they they they brought them back. Uh you texted me and Anthony the the moment like uh that that you saw Koric on stream on on screen again, and I was dying laughing. I paused what I was watching. I don't even remember what I was watching, it's not important anymore. That was that made my week, sir. I was so happy.

SPEAKER_02:

I was like, because you know, I you know, like if you guys don't know the the lore here, they they've tricked me with uh with Ripley a couple times. You know, they just uh I think you you uh you didn't you set me up with uh with Bilbo over there, uh Ash and his cash. Oh yeah, I forgot about him. You know, uh there were a couple of retreads that you guys got me on. Basically, they're not letting me go forward in anything, so I'm just kind of going blind and I don't see this stuff coming.

SPEAKER_01:

I just I it makes the show better, trust me. It it's just it's it's a joy. It's it's just one of those ongoing things that like um but you know what? Most likely we won't see this guy in the next one. You know, I I doubt it. I really doubt it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, no. I don't think that in any way in the blow-up series, the main villain is gonna just disappear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I I heard I heard in the next movie it's all about Carmelo Soprano.

SPEAKER_02:

Somehow, somehow Corridge disappeared. Like that they're just gonna bring Isaac uh what is his name, Isaac, whatever, to uh to come in and say that line.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh oh, um yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. So anyway, you you've watched the film now. You've I'm assuming you watched it one time. Okay, so like you watched it and then you put it on the background. Yeah. Okay, I understand. Yeah. Did you like it more than Avatar? Like the first one?

SPEAKER_02:

Or yeah, I mean, so again, I've I've I've watched a lot of the content that we watch together or we speak we discuss. I've watched it on my iPad normally like probably two feet from my face, like on my little coffee table. This is one of the few things that I've watched on the t on the on my new on my TV.

SPEAKER_01:

As as James Cameron would have won it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I I I mean I think I I yeah, it added to it, I'm not gonna lie to you. It it you know, I think that the visuals are it's shocking how they still really hold up.

SPEAKER_01:

It it's I mean it's not it's it's only a couple years old, this one. This one came out in 2022. So Oh that's so that's silly.

SPEAKER_02:

Meanwhile, my wife and I were we're watching uh I've I've I've I don't know if I told you Forster and took a rings of power, then uh then then Hobbit trilogy. So yeah, the Hobbit trilogy is long, so we're we're finishing it. But she's sometimes she's just like, What's with that? You know, that looks so terrible. And I and we I I'm like don't forget that the Lord of the Rings movies where I think nothing really looks bad there are 10 years older than those movies, right? It's just like there was that one, there was that like that middle period where they were trying to do stuff that looked really bad. But now this, you know, and there's even been stuff that's come out recently in the last couple of years since since this movie came out, you know, Marvel Productions, where some of the I mean, uh what's his name? Heimdall Sun? The the floating the floating head, you know, you know, thing things like that. So you know, that that's much more recent.

SPEAKER_01:

So this is you know, I mean it's The Way of Water is 2022, so it's only three years old at this point.

SPEAKER_02:

It it doesn't even feel it doesn't it doesn't feel like an animated movie.

SPEAKER_01:

No, and that's that's the magic of it. Obviously, it is they are capturing real actors. Like, I don't know if you've ever if you've seen like the behind the scenes of like how this stuff is made. It's not 100% I mean it is 100% computer graphics, but they have actors doing everything, you know, like how they act out mo mocap type stuff, right? It's a it's it's mocap, but it's also like facial capture. Um it it's it's actually it's really impressive what they are capable of doing, and and nobody's really doing it like Jim Cameron. But um, and and that's actually something that I'm excited about too. In a couple days, uh on Disney Plus, they're releasing a I don't know if it's both parts, but it's a two-part documentary series called Fire and Water, the making of the Avatar movies. And it's it it's like a behind the it's a it's a long form behind the scenes documentary about like how it's mostly like the these movies wouldn't exist if the actors didn't bring it to life. Like it's it's entirely their expressions that are being translated onto the the screen in the in in the computer. So I think that's pretty cool, and I'm excited about that. Yeah, so that that's that's something that uh I I find really fascinating. And and yeah, there's really nothing ever that has looked this good in terms of like this is an animated movie. This is an animated movie, like it that it looks real, it looks more real than real life, you know. Like it's that you the the amount of pores you see on these people's faces is crazy. Like, I don't know. It's it's uh it's it it blows my mind. Um so let's talk a little bit about um Sagorney Weaver. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02:

I thought she was coming back, man. Like for like for real for real, but then it's this she is in this movie. Yeah, she's she kind of comes back as like a like a kind of a she does she came back as a force ghost almost.

SPEAKER_01:

She does come back as a force ghost.

SPEAKER_02:

I I wanna say I I don't know, man. Like we might need to play this back because I think that I, independent of any kind of research, I think I might have said something like Force Ghost. You mean in the last episode? Yeah, I think that was I because I said that Riley was coming back. Oh, okay. I think I said it was like uh I thought I said that it was some sort of connection with the uh with the with Enya. No, it's uh Ewa.

SPEAKER_01:

Sorry. Um, you're good. Uh so you may be surprised to note that Sigourney Weaver has a much larger role in this movie than you're giving her credit for.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the her her daughter. Yeah. So I don't underst did I misunderstand it? Like, it's like a a virgin birth or a virgin pregnancy?

SPEAKER_01:

That's that's what they're saying. Uh, but but what I mean is literally Sigorny Weaver is the voice and actor for the daughter as well.

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't I promise you. I didn't know that. I promise you got oh no! Wait a minute, for real? Yes. Ah, I had uh see, this is like the when I don't get to do my research. I had no clue. You're asking me this, and loyal listeners, I I panicked a little bit. I said, did I did I forget something else?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, is there something No, no, no, no. I mean it it's it she did that good of a job where but it's it's funny when you look at um I'll send you a clip after this. It's a it's a little clip like trailer thing from the making of this movie, and it's you know, uh the actor who played Jake Soley next to um the actor who plays Kitty, which is Segourney Weaver, and they're talking about you know, like it's a scene where like she's kind of lamenting like that, you know, she's kind of she feels out of place, she feels she feels the heart of Awa, and like Jake's trying to like comfort her. It's it's weird because it's it's literally uh Sigourney Weaver sitting there, it's in place of her. So And she's playing a 14-year-old girl. So I think that that is really, and once you know that and go back to this, you'll be like, oh, oh, I hear it. So that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

I had I had no clue. No, no foggy notion that it was her. That's awesome. So she does come back. So look at that. She's more than a force ghost.

SPEAKER_01:

Look at this. It's she in force ghost form and in uh strange uh virgin birth daughter form. I just need her to hold a basketball in the next movie and uh everything will come together. You know, it's that is a possibility. You know, there's definitely a possibility that uh a basketball can be, you know, procured, considering uh we did see avatars playing basketball in the first movie. Uh right when Jake Soli like you know first like jumps into his avatar system, he runs outside and there's like people playing a game of basketball. So anyway, it's possible, but yeah, good times. So what did you let's go back to Quaric and the other Marines when when he first wakes up and he's just like Lyle? You know, I I laugh at that line every time. I think that that that is so funny. But uh again, he's such a good villain, you know. You love to hate him, or you hate to love him is one I think it's it's actually more for me. I hate to love this guy because I do love him. Like I don't want him to go away. Like he's just so bad or so good at being bad that yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

Like the like the the fact that he you know he hates them, but he would agree to become one like and like very much flirting with what Jigsuli uh did himself, right? Which was become one of them, and he eventually does that, but still has this like the lack of realization, or uh there's there's never that light bulb moment for him, right? Like he's like, Yeah, I'm in this body, but I'm here to do a job, and he's just sticking to that plan.

SPEAKER_01:

So I want to talk about uh the children uh in the movie. We we we mentioned Kiri briefly, how she's played by Sigorni Weaver, but we have a couple other kids. We have Nateam, who's the older son, the the firstborn to uh Jake and Atiri. We have Loak, um, who kind of becomes the central character that this movie revolves around, and kind of a breakout role for the actor. Uh we have the younger daughter, I think she's like maybe nine or ten years old in terms of like avatar years or not Navi years, uh named Took. And then there's good old Spider, whom people either love or hate. And I understand on a first viewing, a lot of people are just like, I can't stand that guy because of what he does at the end, but you know, it's just part of the story. What are your thoughts on Spider? Because I have Hate him. I did you hate him from the beginning?

SPEAKER_02:

Or No, no, no, I didn't hate him. I mean, I I hated I I grew to hate him because of his There's nothing Okay. There's almost like i if you betray your people, your tribe, your group, and you stick with it, like, you know, you go full Benedict Arnold, there's almost like a little bit of respect. Alright. You switch sides and you stuck it to it, you know, like Count Dooku, you know, like he left the order and boom, he falls in line with a Sith, you know, the there the we find you know, he changes. I I hate these uh, you know, oh I aligned with them for the right reason.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't think they were gonna be this bad, you know, like kind of Well, I mean, for in terms of that, I don't think he really had a choice. Like, in term like, you know, it was either he gets his brain melted by the lab uh people or he goes with him to find Jake Soly and his family, you know? Like he didn't think that they were actually gonna find them, but you know. But uh so d d when he was helping Quarridge, did you think that he was helping Quarich or did you think you know he was just along for the ride? I thought he was helping Quarich. Oh, okay. I don't think you're supposed to think that.

SPEAKER_02:

But that's interesting. I I I know that you're s there's supposed to be force, but I felt like there is a little bit of this kind of slight undertone that he's with his He's with his dad. Yeah, you know, like and that that changed kind of everything and his allegiances overall.

SPEAKER_01:

So there's something interesting. Um, if you ever give this movie a rewatch, note every interaction that Spider has with Nateri. She hates him.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

She absolutely hates him. And um, you know, she she mentions like she shouldn't he shouldn't be uh he should be with their kind, not our kind, blah blah blah. Um she doesn't believe that they should be interacting. And I think part of it is because of you know his his parents, you know, he was Quarch's son. So but at the same time, you you have on on the opposite end of that, you have Spider who has a hell a very healthy fear of Naytiri. Um like there's there's a couple times where like he's watching the footage of Naytiri shoot down his father uh in that mech suit. Um and you can see like the fear in his eyes, like, oh wow, this is like terrifying. And then later he revisits that fear when they're on the the sinking boat, and he sees like the the the killer instinct that Naytiri is, you know, just she's just like screaming at the loss of her son, obviously. But she's you know in like a blood rage, you know, and he realizes he's on the chopping block if if this person gets to me. And then Naytiri actually does get him and is wholly willing to sacrifice a spider. Like she she there was nothing holding her back. Um, and I think the fact that Quarich stops her. I think that is the instant that Spider's just like, he saved my life. This is a person, even though he's a crappy dad, he still cared enough to stop whatever was happening, you know. Like he he gave up on his mission briefly to save the life of my of me, basically. And I think that for me is the reason he decides at the end to be like, I can't let him die. Because that's the first time a parent figure treated him like a parent, basically. Fair. I mean I mean again, it's it's it's all part of the story, and and I uh obviously it's still kind of it's it's very sus that he goes, saves Koric, and then goes back to the the Sully family. Um and then you know, Jake even you know says son for a son, and they take him in in replacement of Mateo, you know, and I think uh it's definitely gonna come up, you know? It's definitely gonna come up in the next one.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, I mean, you know, I mean I've only been a parent for 11 years, but I'm pretty sure that's not how it goes, you know, like it's it's just swap. Yeah, I'll just take that one.

SPEAKER_01:

Replace my other one. I don't I don't know. This this uh this small pale-skinned one. I what I will say, um, there's some scenes that I have no idea how they did it. Because they have a real life human actor playing alongside nine feet tall blue people. We know that there are blue people behind or there there are actors behind the blue people, but they're not actually nine feet tall. So there are instances where they're like interacting with this human character in ways that don't that like I cannot wrap my mind around. There's a there's a point where Spider helps bring the body of Nateam, the oldest son, out of the water alongside Loak and Jake Sully. Like they're pulling him out of the water and it's seamless. Like you don't you see him supporting the weight of this nine-foot thing, but we know that nine-foot thing isn't actually nine feet, and it's just it blows my mind. If you ever like go back to that scene at the end and and just like look at how the physical interactions with Spider are with the the rest of the cast of this movie, it blows my mind. I don't know how they managed it, but they it's it's literal cinema cinema magic, and it it that for me is just like the pinnacle of uh like CGI. I don't know. I again I keep saying I don't know how they did it. I almost don't want to know how they did it because it's so unbelievable. You're gonna not want to watch those behind the scenes then, man. Uh I know, I know. I you you gotta watch it for me.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I think that you uh you know, I've had a lot of sanctions placed on me. And I and I think for your own best interest. How about you not watch the behind the scenes until you see the movie so that the magic's not ruined?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean I think I think the the two-part series that they're coming out with is based on mostly the way of water.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but you're still gonna see like how how it's made.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah, I'm gonna yeah, I'm gonna look behind the curtain. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Then then that means you know, you're gonna go see the next one. Maybe you're gonna be like, hey, how you know, trying to figure out the you're you're gonna lose yourself in the uh the logistics instead of losing yourself in the story.

SPEAKER_01:

I I will definitely be seeing it more than once. So I'm I'm sure I I will be lost in the story.

SPEAKER_02:

And the the Fire Nation's coming, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Fire Nation's coming. Fire Nation and Air Nation. You know, like crazy. The the literal air nomads and fire nation's.

SPEAKER_02:

What is the subtitle of the next one?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh Fire and Ash.

SPEAKER_02:

I did uh the uh the poster looks very intimidating. Uh at this uh you know, the I went to the movies this weekend, so it's uh it's building.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's it's building. Uh what's crazy is that these movies like are juggernauts in the theater. Like they hold up like they an avatar movie comes and like cinema as a whole just like rises up. It's just like it it it it's the boat that raises all ships, you know. It's it's really it's crazy. It's like a it's a literal wave.

SPEAKER_02:

I have no idea that this movie came out in 2000. Would you say 22? Yeah, it's like shortly after the COVID restriction, too. Three years ago, I have no recollection of this happening. Uh I don't know how I missed this. Uh so it did not uh it did not draw me in, but uh I the the next one I'm gonna I'm it's gonna be a fight with uh the wife over here. I'm not sure if she's gonna join me. How do we do we have an estimated runtime of this next one?

SPEAKER_01:

Is it gonna be It is I think like 10 minutes longer. Oh is the rumored is the rumored uh runtime.

SPEAKER_02:

And look, we've talked about in the show how much I how many times I'll watch the extended versions of Lord of the Rings, but man, three hours and forty minutes in a theater? It's gonna be uh difficult.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. When asked a couple years back, when asked, you know, will there be like an intermission or something for people to use the bathrooms? Uh James Cameron goes, uh no, but uh they they can they can use the bathroom whenever they want. They can miss they can see the the scene they missed whenever they come back to the theater. You know, like insinuating that like if you see this once in theater, you're coming back. And for most people that is actually true. That it's it's literally the third highest grossing movie of all time.

SPEAKER_02:

I've only uh I've only seen two movies in theaters two times.

SPEAKER_01:

There's dirty work on you've only seen two movies like more than once in theaters more than once.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And it's uh Dirty Work with Norm MacDonald. Uh came out like in 1997.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And the other one is Spawn. You mentioned that one on a podcast a couple months back. Spawn. I accidentally basically two groups of friends the same weekend wanted to go, so I saw it twice in one weekend. Uh so I'm not sure if it'll draw me back a second time.

SPEAKER_01:

I it's uh it's a that's that's that's uh that's something between you and your wallet. I went to see the Way of Water five times in theater.

unknown:

Wow!

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I went to see it five times in theater, and then I went back a couple weeks ago when it was like revisited uh in IMAX. In New Rock? I went to New Rock.

SPEAKER_02:

Did you have to deal with 30 minutes of uh commercials? Just like Rigovi commercials? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it was a little behind schedule.

SPEAKER_02:

Like it might have- It's hyperlocalized, but I uh I went to the same theater this weekend to go see something completely different. The Keanu Reeves Good Fortune movie. It's supposed to start at 2 30, and I'm telling you, they just rolled like commercials, not not you know, previews, like 20 minutes of regular TV commercials.

SPEAKER_01:

That's wrong. Um yeah, no, it was only maybe like five to ten minutes late for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Which was a lot, you know, because the movie didn't start to till 2.55 and it was a 2.30 showing.

SPEAKER_01:

Because then you also have the the trailers and all that. Yeah, that sucks, man.

SPEAKER_02:

Was the movie good? No. Uh my wife uh absolutely uh dis disliked it. I uh was non-plusted, it was with Seth Rogan and Azizari. I'm taking us way off course into uncharted waters.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's okay. It's alright. What did you think of the difference uh or or the family dynamics of Jake Soly's little clan?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, then Atiri uh really dynamic with Spider like immediately evoked Game of Thrones, uh Jon Snow. It was almost illogical in the same way the Cat's was a little bit at first. Like it was so strong that you're just like, what? The um the comics that you sent over that that I purchased and read uh legally. I um they were sorry, James legal I legally gifted. Yes, they were legally gifted. I uh I felt like you got I saw a little bit more that that's almost so before we started the show, I said that it felt like these three comics, uh I think it's the hard way. Am I the the high ground? The high ground. Why I say hard okay, it's another comicless series. Anyway, the the high ground, uh I thought it felt like what we should have seen instead of the way of water. Like the way of water should have come after because it was so fleshed out look, I've really This was the original script.

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, really? The High Ground is the original script for the second movie, and he decided he wanted a different story. So he it's still canonical. It's still canonical, it still happens between you know, like when the when the RDA returns and that one-year jump, um, the those three high ground comics are still like part of the story, and they're written by James. I mean, the they're adapted to comic books by a different writer, but the the script was written by James Cameron. Um, and actually that's the case for pretty much all of the comics is um like he has this crazy lore Bible that you know what when he came back to create the Way of Water, he like I don't know if it's a physical Bible or or what, but he had um detailed notes on everything for the past 15 years that like like what happened between this movie and this movie. So like he was clearly working on this, like well, that's all he has been working on, you know, like besides his trips down to uh visit the Titanic every now and then, like that's all he works on is like making and fleshing out the lore of this world. So yeah, yeah. Uh what did you think of the other kids? Oh well you you we we we jumped over to the the high ground comics. I don't think you finished them, right?

SPEAKER_02:

I no, like I got almost to the end of the third one.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, well I mean that's that's most of it. So yeah, it's it's almost like a weird. I'm I'm kind of happy that that this that that didn't make it into the movie because it's almost like the Navi using too much technology, you know, because they they basically it's like Navi in space. Um yeah, that was it's silly, but it it works logically with the story, you know, especially with Jake Sully. Um but I I I prefer the much more grounded uh film that we got. So yeah, uh so you you thought that the Nateri spider uh dynamic was interesting. What did you think about the rest of the cast?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh so one, I don't know any d do I like okay, so Zoe Zaldana is Natiri. Naytiri. Right. I don't know who plays the other uh well now I know that's a Gordon Weaver's uh Kiri.

SPEAKER_01:

They're they're not actors that have been in anything really. Most of them are child act uh like the all the other actors are child actors. So Natayam, Loak, Took, the kid who plays Spider, um like they're all essentially I don't I I hate calling someone like a no-name actor, but like they're no-name actors, you know, like they don't have um the wherewithal within Hollywood yet to like was it be known.

SPEAKER_02:

Was it Loac who bonds with uh Paikan, yes. Right. Now why did I can't recall why did he why why was uh the chief so angry that he was allowed to that he was allowed to bond with the outsider whale?

SPEAKER_01:

It's kind of implied that the chief doesn't know the full story or doesn't understand the full story of what Paya Khan did. Um because it wasn't his clan that he inadvertently helped, or like inadvertently kind of got killed. So like the the the flashback to maybe I think it's about a year previous, Payakan attacked the the the ship people who were you know uh they were hunting Tol Kun. He he he attacked the Tulkun people with other Tol Kun and some of the Navi from a different clan. By doing so, he got a bunch of Tol Kun and Navi killed. That in turn led to his banishment. Um and basically it means that he's just kind of he doesn't live by the Tolkun way. Uh okay so it's almost like uh this fellowshipping thing that they had, you know, like he's he's an outsider, he's like uh outcast outcast, he um okay, so he's like ex community. Should be ostracized.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Got it. It I I really thought, I mean, uh the the bonding with them. Although we had seen it with the I'm so bad with these names. I wi I you know what I'm gonna say, James Cameron? Can't someone name I just give me another Sean.

SPEAKER_01:

Name everything like unobtaining them, James Cameron. We we need we need more obtainable names.

SPEAKER_02:

I just uh sometimes I I I struggle a little bit. Um but you know when they when they bonded with the uh I'm gonna call them the pterodactyls, uh you had the same kind of yes, ecron. Uh you had the same kind of uh connection there, and I I thought that was cool. I um I do I'd love to see a movie where whales are dumb. They're just like, no, these are just big dumb creatures. These are the dumb ones. These are the dumb ones. Because they're always like, you know, uh I don't know the actor's name, I I but the he's like one of the scientists who's basically like, these are the smartest, you know, creatures and like the in that they have philosophy.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, in in this movie, yeah. It's uh it's germaine from Flight of the Concords.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, that's all I know him from. I only know him. I love the the attendant the attendance for any of the meetings in Flight of the Concords. It's like uh, you know, Niles, uh Jermaine, Germain, you know, like I just there's three people in a room. I just Brett Brett Brett. I love that show. Uh so yeah, I mean, and also just how like how casually he's like, yeah, you know, it's like look look at like how smart they are, and he's like, all right, anyway, I'm gonna drain this liquid from their brain, you know. Uh it's Amrita. It's so uh so kind of ridiculous. They they it's almost like they needed uh, you know, like a second. I I love that it's like unobtainium wasn't enough, right? Uh it's like, okay, so we have an obtainum. What's our new unobtainium? You know, it's like, okay, it's gonna be whale brain juice. So I wonder what the third one, I feel like the third one they're gonna be, it's gonna be something something even crazier than unobtainium and brain juice.

SPEAKER_01:

So I mean the third movie, it's still within this time period. So like most likely there's not gonna be a huge like the story's just gonna continue from where this one left off, basically.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, there's not gonna be a huge time jump, as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong there. I I don't think that we're gonna have another on Optanium or Amrita if I were a betting man, but I'm not a betting man. Let's talk about Jake uprooting his family from the Omatakaya people in the in the forest to live uh as sea people with the Meccaina. I can I couldn't remember the name. The Meccaina clan. What are your thoughts on what are your thoughts on the idea of Pandora just being kind of like Earth where there's different biomes and you know, like there's different people that have adapted in the ways that best suit their needs in this area? Like we we definitely get to see huge adaptations, like adaptive differences, you know, between uh the the Navi races.

SPEAKER_02:

What are your thoughts? I thought that was awesome. I mean it's you know, it in terms of anthropology and study of civilizations and societies and how they grow and how they adapt to their surroundings, like it it makes so much sense that the na that these Navi have kind of a different subset of skills, you know. It it was it was kind of nice, not nice, but I mean interesting to see uh the the Sully clans struggle a little bit, you know, as they try to adapt and still uh be kind of braggadocious, especially the boys amongst each other. You are not good divers, you may be good but swinging through trees, but like just the way they I and you know, I mean slightly uh kind of inherent I I I don't wanna say racism, right? But uh tribalism, right?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, like there's definitely there's definite tribalism and uh you know you're different, so I'm gonna make fun of you, right? Yeah, which I don't think that's necessarily racism, but yeah, it it's just like fear of the other.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I liked I liked that. Uh what else? There's there's actually like so much to talk about on this movie that yeah, I I I don't even know where to begin. And we're already like an hour into this podcast, so we're we're coming to a close here. But um what did you think of uh Nateam's death?

SPEAKER_02:

Like how it happened, or you mean like the impact?

SPEAKER_01:

The impact. Um did you expect it to happen?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I figured I figured somebody in that family had to die. Really? I didn't think it was gonna be Naytiri. I it's clearly not gonna be Jigsuli. Uh and I didn't think it would be the younger ones. I think it it made the most sense for it to be the oldest warrior type. Uh so like once it became clear that you know they were being hunted, and it was like someone's gotta go. I I didn't think for some reason like if more of them had left, you know, if it was like more of the clan hadn't left with them, you know, they had like a uh an entourage for lack of a better term with them, then I'd be like, okay, cool, you'll lose like the random side characters, you know, like when you're watching like Lord of the Rings, and somehow, despite the battle of 35,000, you know, R12 characters always come out scot-free.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm sorry, Michelle Gomez, it's time for you to go.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, I I just think that like that you were gonna lose uh the first movie set up that people can die, you know, or characters can die. And that once that happened, you know, it it like it's like whereas the prequel whereas the original trilogy in Star Wars almost established that almost nobody would die. This one, you know, this series kind of from the beginning did give us an idea that that we might lose.

SPEAKER_01:

There there are definite stakes, yeah. Um it's not everyone's gonna come out clean.

SPEAKER_02:

So it for me I I feel like there had to be Jake, Jake Sully had to be.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, was it was it impactful for you? Yeah, I guess I guess is where I'm coming to. You you I know you watched this over several days, um, but for me, this was one of the more impactful cinema deaths that I can remember experiencing. And I don't know why. I don't know why. I uh maybe it's because I'm like the firstborn child of my family, so I kind of feel how Nateam feels. You know, like he's the one who's trying to like corral his his siblings all the time, he's the one who has to lead by example, you know. I I I feel that with Nateam quite a bit whenever I'm watching it. But I don't know if that's necessarily the the reason I, you know, attribute uh like this death as being so impactful. I I I find that the reactions that everyone gives, you know, like Nate's.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh well Nate her screaming is disturbing on all the best levels. Like 'cause it's you feel it's real. Yeah. To her it's real. It it it it it was overwhelmingly real. Like it it actually it added so much to it. What was that like that kind of end to it, you know, like that that scream of of of of real grief, of real loss and pain, you know. I thought that was extremely well done. I wouldn't say it ranks up there, but I I think it's part of it's because like I've seen it. I saw I felt it coming, whereas like when Han gets killed, I I had no idea. Or like I know that this is gonna be silly because everyone's gonna think I'm like ridiculous, but I watched like Rocky 4 like 18 years after the release date, and I'll never forget. I was watching it at like 11 in the morning eating like slices of slices of ham off of a giant ham. I just had just slicing off ham eating there. And when Apollo Creed died, I I was bawling. I didn't I don't know why I didn't see Had you seen the movie prior to that? No, no, never. Oh, so that was the first time. I had no idea, you know, and I put it on. So I'm watching the 18 years later after release at 11 o'clock in the morning eating ham with commercial breaks, and I'm like, oh my god, Apollo died.

SPEAKER_01:

That was one of my favorite movies growing up was Rocky IV. Um, I don't know why. I think I think the Russians were just such a great villain in that movie.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you had the uh juxtaposition of the you know, the the Russians with the technology and the Americans with the down home just strength and and stick to this. But uh yeah, I mean his death, well not on the level of those two deaths. I thought that Natiri's acting, portrayal, whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

The the grief, the grief uh that because even you know there uh Jake and Natiri react differently, and like Jake almost becomes like like shocked, quiet, you know, and like he there's like a ringing in his ears almost um when when he hears uh Quarch's voice, like you there, Jake, blah blah blah. Yeah, and and then and then there's that final fight.

SPEAKER_02:

It does set the stage uh for for some fireworks, some some you know some definite fireworks.

SPEAKER_01:

Have you seen the trailer for the next one?

SPEAKER_02:

I I might have, but I think I saw it before you were watching these. Yeah, so it didn't mean that. So yeah, I just saw like I was like, ooh, that looks nice. Like I saw it in okay, you know what? I'm lying to you. Was it was it Fantastic Four?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yes, it shows up in Fantastic Four.

SPEAKER_02:

I saw it. I saw it in Fantastic Four. You know, and I thought, oh, that's that's that movie that I know nothing about that looks really nice. Uh now, you know, it's so I have to rewatch it because n nothing made any uh nothing's made any sense to me when I watched it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm curious. Check check out the trailers, see if um You you watch the trailer?

SPEAKER_02:

Don't you normally avoid trailers?

SPEAKER_01:

Not I don't I don't make it a point to avoid trailers. Um unless it's like something I'm like really excited about, then I'll watch like I'll go out of my way to watch a trailer.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I kind of got like just I on Geek Critique, Imogen and I used to do like trailer reactions like way back when. And you know, it was it was quick, easy views, and it you know gained us a lot of subscribers really quickly. But I didn't find that there was really any artistry in it. It and I didn't like having to feel like I was reacting. And we we didn't go like all we weren't like screaming and jumping in our seats or anything like that. Um, we were reacting like we would react to a trailer. Um, but I I got so tired of the grind of a new trailer came out, we have to sit down right now and react to this because you know the algorithm demands it. I got so tired of that that I stopped watching trailers outside of the movie theater. You're just like I just don't do it all that often unless unless it's something that I'm really excited for, basically. Um so that's that's my personal stance on trailers. Rich, I think we should bring this podcast to a close unless you have anything else that you want to bring up or questions that you have about the this movie or the comic or anything.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I just I'll just I said this before to you and the comic. I I I dislike and I get it, you know, comic lines, switch artists and stuff, but w when you have a a finite plan, I would say, I I dislike when you when you have the style changes. Uh and and I did find that when you have a movie that's so incredibly crisp and clear, yeah, right, to then have any sort of fuzzy representation is is kind of a crime, you know. Especially with these characters and that they look alike. There's not you know the they in the comic they they they're they're it was almost indiscernible sometimes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, there there there's uh kind of an issue with drawing Navi uh individuals in the comics where a lot of times like the only way that you can determine who they are is if you're really paying attention to like how they wear their ornaments on their you know their their chest or their body, um or if they mention the names of the characters. You know, and that's it is it is difficult to get into, uh, and I I do admit to that. Yeah. But it's but I didn't do it. Uh it's not my fault, Rich. I didn't this isn't this isn't my creative choice.

SPEAKER_02:

But I I it sounds weird. I almost wish this was the you it can't be the first movie because you need the background, obviously, right? But this movie, other than the whale trope, which you know I s I I'm I'm gonna call it out. I I think it's a whale there's a whale trope here. Uh but I'm uh other than that, I think it did avoid a lot of tropiness in in some ways. I it I see what you're saying. Okay, it it it became something different, right? Whereas I felt like the first one was just a different take on a similar story. I think that this story did enough to not to prevent it from being easily like a you know, oh, this is just uh uh almost like an homage to or a different take on this.

SPEAKER_01:

Totally. Yeah, and there's there's plenty of homages in this, you know, like even the fact that there's a sinking ship at the end of this one. Um I wonder if this director's uh directed anything else with sinking ships. Oh my goodness, if he made like a navi Titanic. I mean that's what happened. The the ship even flipped over, like it was like that's that's that but you know what he he put all of his loves in one movie. He he loves uh underwater stuff and he loves these blue people, obviously. So like more power to him. It was a cool story. Rich, what are your final thoughts on the way of water?

SPEAKER_02:

I uh definitely recommend it. You know, I uh I think that the best viewing is obviously straight through. So make yourself make sure you give yourself you know, you know, you gotta set aside some time. But I think that if you give it the time and watch it in uh in a nice environment with the lights out and the TV bright, I I it's beautiful. And the story is well done. The you know the the villain is cartoonishly evil in a delicious way. I I I really think there there are a lot of things that I this is one where I would say, you know, like this is it's it's definitely worth definitely worth a rewatch after the first time. I mean I think it I think it deserves a rewatch. Like, you know, it it there's so much there that I don't know if you can really take it in in one setting.

SPEAKER_01:

I know that the next film uh is dropping in like a month and change. And I'm not you know saying that you gotta go out and watch it, you know. You don't you don't have to bring the cavalry to the theater and do that. But if you do, would you re-watch these two movies or just the last movie or anything like that in preparation for going to see this? Well, I I I think you gotta watch both. I don't I think you like Avatar and then the way of life and then the new Avatar. I I think you you can't you need the first one to give you some background, you know, before well no no, I'm not saying like like if you you if you're coming into this blind, obviously, yeah, you you want to watch the first two. But like you, uh like literally you're going to rewatch these if you go to the theater.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm obsessive. I mean, but that's that's it's it's a that's you, that's almost an unfair question. And it doesn't it doesn't even tell you if something's good or not, right? It just means that I will sleevishly watch all parts of it in the lead up to the next part. So Yeah, I'm gonna uh you know, like if they came out with Game of Thrones season 11, whatever, you know, uh like would I watch every part of it? I rewatch the series every year, so I'm not gonna and I don't skip the bad parts. So I would still watch the first one again. I will do that uh as I'm leading up to it because I just uh and then after watch the third one, I'm gonna want to watch the first one again and see if there's anything from the third one that you know, like some Easter eggs or something that I missed, or some callbacks, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

There's definite there's definite callbacks, there's definite Easter eggs, even between these two films. A lot of the lines that Jake and uh Quaric say are actually lines that they individually said or like the the other said in the first one. Oh um I I don't remember any off the top of my head, but I remember like, you know, when you're when I'm watching it, I'm just like, oh, I think one of them is astounding or fantastic. I forget exactly. Um but anyway, like they they they definitely parallel each other in terms of like some of the lines that they say. It's just like a little Easter egg for people who are paying attention too much, like me. Um, but there's a lot of juice on this bone, guys. Um, and I just you know I have to throw it out there. You know, we request uh kindly that you give this uh podcast a nice five-star juicy review. It gotta be juicy. And yeah, uh, I I look forward to checking out the next film in this series, obviously. I'm I'm very excited about that. And uh Rich, thank you for taking the time uh out of your your week, out of out of your uh oblivion uh replay to you know watch these movies with me because I I had a good time revisiting them. Um, guys, if you want to check out any more of our socials, please be sure to click down into our show notes down below. Uh follow us wherever you want to follow us, and uh we'll see you next time, guys. Stay juicy.

SPEAKER_00:

The Wolverine.

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