Project Geekology
Embark on an epic journey with Anthony and Dakota as they delve into the vast realms of geek culture, from cherished classics to cutting-edge creations. Join us for an exhilarating adventure of exploration and nostalgia, as we unearth hidden gems and reminisce about the moments that have shaped us. Welcome to the ultimate celebration of all things geeky!
Project Geekology
Avatar (2009)
Blue skin, big feelings, and even bigger questions. We dive into James Cameron’s Avatar with a split panel: one of us watched for the very first time, the other can quote the timeline by day. That tension makes space for a deeper look at why Pandora still captivates—stunning 3D worldbuilding, ferocious villains, and an intimate language of respect that runs through the Omatikaya like a current.<br><br>We start with the Avatar Program and the ethics of “dreamwalking” into an indigenous body, then layer in the comics backstory that changes everything: Grace’s school, a shattered trust, and losses that explain the tribe’s guarded stance. From there, it’s the full spectrum—Jake Sully’s rapid ascent and the Marty Stu debate, Quaritch’s relentless hostility vs. Selfridge’s boardroom calculus, and the eternally meme-able “unobtanium.” Love it or roll your eyes, the resource grab frames a blunt critique of extraction and displacement that still feels uncomfortably relevant.<br><br>But this conversation isn’t just thesis statements. We revisit why the original theatrical 3D mattered, why the visuals hold up in 2025, and how “I see you” became a cultural touchstone that carries romance, respect, and recognition in a single phrase. We wrestle with white savior optics and push into nuance: Jake doesn’t “fix” a people with superior tech—he sheds it, adopts their language, bonds with their ecology, and bets his life on their ways. Finally, we look ahead to The Way of Water: a 15-year time jump, a family-centered story, and a new ocean culture that promises different stakes and fresh conflicts.<br><br>Hit play for a lively, balanced breakdown that blends fandom, first impressions, and rich lore. If this episode moved you—or made you argue with your speakers—subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a five-star review to help more listeners find the show. What did Pandora change for you?
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Alien (1979) Explained | Timeline, Canon, and Lore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9nmyTTlMvo
Welcome to episode 139 of Project Geekology Today. Today we are extremely blue pilled. Like it's as blue pilled as it gets today. We are watching Avatar 2009, the uh second to last most recent James Cameron film uh to to grace our screens. Rich, this is the first time for you.
SPEAKER_01:I basically went in completely blind, sir. Yes, I did. Uh you uh I've guys the last two months of podcasting has been the most awkward I think that I've ever done. I uh I'm a knowledge guy, right? I'm a I'm a let me go over the materials 17 times. Let me dive into all this extra stuff, and let me come into the podcast and be ready that way. And these gentlemen, one, uh Anthony, we miss you. He's really uh by the way, Anthony, as an as a quick update, he has killed two perfect black squirrel pelts. He has two pro two black pearl uh two perfect black squirrel pelts. I think he's got an American prog horn uh also. Full carcass. Uh yes, actually, he's on assignment this week. He is out hunting animals in real life Red Dead Redemption 2. He sent us an action shot, and I kid you not, it looked exactly like where I was hunting some beaver and some blue jays this week in Red Dead Redemption. So I hope he enjoys the milieu, uh, but we do miss his presence on the show.
SPEAKER_02:We miss you, Anthony. Uh just for the for those listeners out there who don't get the Red Dead Redemption 2 jokes. Anthony is not hunting, he's just away on vacation. He's in Tennessee at his family's home there. Have fun, Anthony.
SPEAKER_01:My name is Dakota, and I am joined with Rich, who is uh like just I feel I mean, I had no idea what I was getting into. I I knew uh a little bit kind of of the the overall idea of the movie, but uh this should be fun because we may not have Anthony with us this week, guys, but we do have a third voice because my wife is a vociferous anti-uh avatar person. There I I've never met somebody actually who's had a more negative visceral reaction to this movie, and I tried to watch it in secret, ladies and gentlemen, and I'm telling you that it did not happen. I actually paused it because the negativity was so intense. And then when I went to watch it the next day, my wave came back into the room and sat down and was like, Oh, you're watching it? So we're gonna have like a little third voice creep in every once in a while, which is unsettling.
SPEAKER_02:It's an unsettling voice for sure. But uh no, it's it's it's it's still pleasant to have different opinions about uh the topic at hand. As as we found with Project Ecology, a third voice is usually kind of fun because it usually means that two out of three uh of the of the of the hosts or the voices rather are in sync, and the other one is just like actually this sucks. And uh and this is why. No, so this will be good. Yeah, so before we jump into any of our avatar discussion, and Rich, I gave you some a little bit of homework today. I gave you I gave you the avatar tie-in comics. Um, and we'll talk about that a little bit along with the film. But before we jump into any of that, uh what what have you been up to this past week?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I finally bit the bullet and I bought Oblivion, the remastered copy. I uh so Oblivion is a game that I this might be the fourth time I'm buying it or something crazy like that. So my friend recommended it to me. I bought it, I started playing it, I was enjoying it. I got into the Oblivion Gates, and I'm not going to lie to you. I was downright terrified. I ran out, I called my friend, and I said, What is this thing I just walked into? And he's like, Oh, those are the Oblivion Gates. And I said, I don't like that. He goes, Well, it's gonna be a big problem, bud, because you gotta close a heck of a lot of them. And I was like, What? And I was like, How do you close them? He's like, You gotta go into the towers, and I was like, The towers! Uh I was I I and you know, like looking back on the footage and stuff, it's kind of ridiculous, but I I was frightened.
SPEAKER_02:And uh it goes from like a peaceful fantasy, you know, like Western fantasy world to just hell, basically. And it's real quick, you know, something happens. It's only if you're following the main storyline, like you like yeah, you could you could play the game for 50 hours and not experience a single oblivion gate. Um but that's what happened to me. Oh I didn't know. So you just got sucked in.
SPEAKER_01:I just was like doing side stuff, and then like so you know, a week after I get the game is when my f I got into the gate and I freaked out. So I s I I got rid of it. And then my friend came over and was like, dude, come on, what happened? And I was like, uh So he brought his copy, so I tried the gates, and I was like, I felt a little bit better about it. I bought it again, and then I got overwhelmed, I just the world was too big for me, and I got scared again, so I sold it. Then the game of the year edition came out that had like all of the downloadable content, so I bought it, and then I finally did beat it, uh sold it because you know it was on an older system, and now I've bought it again, so uh I can't believe I'm here. I don't remember the quest so far. I do fondly I mean, I was very happy to be welcomed back to the world of Tamriel and Oblivion, and specif uh specifically uh with the dulcet tones of Patrick Stewart. Patrick Stewart. And it was it was really cool because uh my wife actually walked in and she sat down and I mean we watch a lot of stuff with Patrick Stewart, you know. I'm not gonna lie. So but she was like, Oh, Patrick Stewart. And I was like, Yeah. I was like, it's a good game. And it's uh, you know, the graphic upgrade is amazing. And to be honest with you, so far I haven't noticed any you know, the uh you know, he he runs kind of do like kind of a look a little bit of a doofy run. Uh I am upset about the lack of I'm very particular. I have uh you guys obviously don't know this because you don't see me, but I have mutton chops. I have mutton chops styled after Wolverine. Uh when the Wolverine came out, it was a summer movie, I believe it was July or August release. I went to the bathroom, I was feeling kind of randy, and I uh I shaved my beard into a Wolverine, you know, uh facial hair, and then I came out of the bathroom, my wife said that looks way better than your beard, and it was locked in from there. So I am very particular. I really do want mutton chops in every video game, and I'm very upset when they're not there, especially when it's like a fantasy game, because I feel like fantasy games tend to lead themselves to kind of ridiculous beard ensembles. So that's the only thing that upset me. The character creation, I I wish they would have done a little bit with it. I mean, it's still great in for its time, but you know, and and you realize also that like it was really cool to ride a horse that first time, and but now that I play Red Dead, you're riding this horse, and uh I mean they're trying with the sound effects, but man, sometimes you're just like, wow, I mean, what is that a is that like a potted plant, you know, like one of those ceramic plants just like hitting like a table? Like it because that's not a hoof on a brick, you know? Yeah, interesting. You can tell like little things like that, but uh the third person works fairly well. There's a little janky thing where if you're in third person when you walk into a new area, like the camera is kind of seeing through your chest slightly. So you're kind of slightly opaque, but not. So that that's just one complaint I have about it. I'm only about probably ten or so hours. I do fondly, fondly recall uh raising my agility by just jumping everywhere, and I've continued to do that. So they did make some tweaks also uh with the leveling system that makes it a little bit easier, and they since release have added also a a new uh difficulty level called Journeyman between adept and apprentice, I think. But basically they added a a different level because some people felt the gap was too big. So uh so far I'm not complaining about difficulty level. I'm at that age where honestly I like to play things on easy and just enjoy the story. Just enjoy it, you know.
SPEAKER_03:That's it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I got this game Invincible from the PlayStation Store, and it's uh it's pretty good. It's uh you're you're basically on this deserted planet, and you have to figure out why you're separated from your team. Uh it's categorized, I'm gonna look it up right now, it's adventure mystery. Uh, and it's it's it's pretty cool. Like you're just kind of wandering around, and y you know, there's like a you you can sprint a little bit and stuff, but it's really just point and click. But I think they did a really great job of pointing and clicking. You know, like you're you're limited, you're very limited. You know, you can't just climb any ledge, for example. You have to go to the ledge that's approportioned for you to be able to climb, you know, things like that. Sure. So it's a really simple game, like in terms of gigabytes, it's like 12 gigabytes. So it's like really but but the graphics are like shockingly good for such a you know minimalist game. There's like these f like lore flashbacks and stuff. So definitely a game that I would recommend checking out right now. It seems to be low cost. Uh like I said, running on the Unreal Engine. I I I think it's actually uh I don't know what the story is yet. I mean, I I I can tell that there are conversations I'm having that might lead one way or another, but I w you know it says that you'll face these decisions that will shape the outcome of the story. Whether it doesn't whether it really does or not, I'm not there yet, but it's it's a little haunting. There's uh you know, you you kind of encounter members of your team and you don't know what's going on with them, so uh I'm kind of excited.
SPEAKER_02:Nice. That's that's awesome. I I didn't know I I don't think I've heard of Invincible, so I have to look it up. But yeah, that's that sounds good.
SPEAKER_01:What are you went up to?
SPEAKER_02:I have been just working a lot, but while I have been working, I finished the audio drama or sorry, the audiobook of the novelization of Alien Isolation, uh, which is the the sequel to Alien with Ripley's daughter, um, and how she kind of encounters uh she's she's in search of Ripley, you know, like she hears that there's news about the Nostromo, like someone found like the flight recorder, so she's off on an adventure, like trying to figure out what happened to her mother. And of course, xenomorphs show up, so that's been that's really cool. I've gotten to the point where like I'm I'm really excited to dive into some of the tie-in novels and audio dramas that have been created since Titan Books like took over the publishing. And I think there's like 10 or 11. So I'm gonna start, you know, just listening to those when I get the off opportunity. And I started with the first one, Out of the Shadows, which is interesting. Yeah, I don't I don't have like any like positives or negatives about it yet, but I'm I'm maybe like a quarter of the way through uh just enjoying some more alien content while I while I can. You know, it's it's in terms of tie-in stuff, it probably yeah, so like Star Wars, they rebooted their timeline around 2014. And Alien, while it didn't reboot its timeline, it it started publishing under a new publisher in around 2014, so people kind of take that as like the current canon of the tie-in material. Um, but Star Wars has like 10 times the amount of books in the same time period.
SPEAKER_01:Let's not let's not discuss, let's not discuss how furious I am because I was a full legends bro. I'm tell there's no you may not meet a person who knew more about the legend like that. The period they erased, alright, is maybe the period of Star Wars that I may have known the most about. Let's just put it this way, I had a car called the Lady Luck. And some of you out there might be saying, What's that? What's that, Rich? I've never heard of the Lady Luck. And I'll tell you what the Lady Luck is. It was the ship that Lando owned that is not canon anymore, that was a luxury cruise line. And I had a Lincoln Town car, a luxury car. And it was, of course, in 1997. But still, I got a little version of the Lady Luck that I found on eBay, because I think Hasbro made this actual ship, and now with one fell swoop, Eisner just said no. No, Bob Iger said no. I don't want it. It was Iger, yeah. That jerk. Sorry, sorry, I get upset.
SPEAKER_02:Bob Iger did make some you know good decisions, I will say, in his tenure. Uh, one of them being to buy 20 uh 20th century fox. Well, yeah. Book Book of Boba Fett. Book of Oba Fett, uh Kelly Walkenobius. Uh yeah, it's it's the the 5 MCU Bob Iger's. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, and Avatar was part of that 20th Century Fox deal. How did you do that?
SPEAKER_00:That's amazing. You brought it back to the topic at hand. I'm really good at this, my dude.
SPEAKER_02:Been doing it a long time. Uh, but before Disney bought, you know, uh Fox and X-Men and Fantastic Four, which didn't do very well at the box office, and Avatar, which did do very well at the box office, they uh, you know, Fox made the the right call by you know betting on James Cameron and uh made the biggest movie of all time. It's it's legit the biggest movie of all time.
SPEAKER_01:You could one could say it's Titanic.
SPEAKER_02:It is Titanic, it is bigger than Titanic somehow. Yeah, no, it's uh never bet never bet against James Cameron, which uh is very exciting because he's coming out with his third Avatar movie later this year, which we will be covering on the podcast as soon as we get the opportunity. And I'm I'm very excited. I think I saw the second movie like five times in theaters. It was I don't know how you felt about this, Rich. I I have no idea what whether you liked this movie or didn't like this movie. The second movie is levels of magnitude different, like better, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01:I've heard I've heard this. It's I I I will say I don't have I don't have super strong feelings in either direction. I'm like I ended the movie and I said, oh, that was fun. You know, like I enjoyed it. But I have heard Scuttlebutt. I can't obviously I'm not allowed the embargo that is placed on me. Uh the it's almost like I I get charged a tariff if I if I go ahead and engage in any material past what we're watching.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, uh Rich Rich uh was was very perturbed the past couple months as we were covering the alien movies, as you know, he wasn't allowed to uh skip ahead and watch the movies in advance, and there's seven movies and there's the TV show that we covered. And I personally, and I think Anthony agrees on this, made it made the show better because nobody's jumping ahead and saying, well, in this movie it's gonna be even better than this movie because of this, this. And I'm I as I'm I I realize the irony of me saying that, as I'm saying the way of water is like gonna be the discussion that's more fun. But let's talk about Avatar. Um, yeah, so Bob Bob Iger, uh, even before he bought 20th Century Fox, Greenlit a Avatar-themed land in uh Disney's Animal Kingdom in Orlando, and it's like one of my favorite places uh in like a theme park. It's just it's got the floating mountains, um it's got like the the the ground glows when you walk around it. It just it does not have a home tree. There's a ride where you visit the home tree.
SPEAKER_01:Can I tie my hair to it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, unfortunately, no. You can't you can't like make Sahelu with the home tree. Yeah. But uh we'll we'll we'll discuss all that. So let's jump into just the bare bones of this story. What did you think of the concept of the Avatar program? The Avatar program being these individuals, scientists, and now a marine who are sent over to this faraway moon uh called Pandora that you know orbits a gas giant and are put into the bodies, uh like like lab-grown bodies of the indigenous population to better get connect with that population. What are what are your thoughts on just that concept?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, there's a lot of science that we are skipped out on and just kind of asked to accept, which is fine, you know, I'm I'm for that overall. Obviously, like it works into the plot a number of times, and I know that some of it's like when they get kind of like rudely ripped out of the of their Navi bodies. Yeah. But just like the the I like, you know, it if it feels like they should be going back to some sort of like place to like unplug, you know, a little bit safer, uh, at times, and it that seemed like a design flaw overall. Because if you're trying to integrate, you know, and and like be normal, and then like your life the body just goes lifeless, it's a little bit uh and again, maybe I'm not giving Cameron the benefit of the doubt, and you know, he worked that in as a design flaw of it so that there was obviously plot holes, not plot holes, but opportunities in the plot to capitalize on that and and and create more dissension between the the the two groups. Uh but I I okay look it's way easier to accept this science, right? And just like say fine, it's it it's what I'm gonna accept when when suddenly freaking Riley shows up on my screen, you you you did this on purpose, right? I had no again no prior real knowledge, okay, other than this is a movie with the blue people, okay? That's what I knew. And suddenly, after watching Alien for damn near two months, yes, I cussed on the show. Damn near two months. You have me sit down, and Sigordney Weaver pops on my screen. So I went, Alright, I accept anything. Like, I've accepted it before with with my boy Ridley Scott, and I'm gonna accept it now.
SPEAKER_02:Love it, man. Oh man. Yeah, uh, question Did you I know that you said that you might rewatch this one or watch it three times. Did you ever get around to watching it a second time?
SPEAKER_01:Unfortunately, the names still did not. Uh you know, I just stick with you. Yeah, I got you.
SPEAKER_02:I got you. I think by the time I I think the second film does a better job of making you feel like you know the characters in and out. Um, but so so for you know, it's understandable you don't understand or you don't know most of the names. You know Grace Augustine, uh played by Segorney Weaver, as uh you know, that the older professor lady who's kind of cranky at the beginning but becomes a uh begrudging ally along the story.
SPEAKER_01:So so so like it's such an archetype. Uh I mean I accept it and I love it, but it it's such the archetype, right? Like, you'll never fit in with one of us, like, why would you give me that guy?
SPEAKER_02:And then I know, I I I love it. Um, and that's that's that's a one that's one thing that's like great about James Cameron, is that he will take tropes, he will take character archetypes, and he'll make something completely new with it. And I think that that's that's a really fun part about Cameron's whole uh filmmaking style. But um, yeah, so you you have uh Grace Augustine, who has been a part of this avatar program for a while now. We have Jake Sully, or as the natives like to call him, Jake Sully. They look they like compress his name into one word, Jake Sully. Uh, who is the twin brother of a guy who was totally preparing to, you know, go to this world for like five years, but like died like a week beforehand. And uh he just happens to share the genetic like DNA of his twin brother enough.
SPEAKER_00:It's so stupid. I'm sorry. I know it didn't it is it is that probably that I was just like this is so stupid, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I mean it also it it does it's it's the one thing in this movie that doesn't feel like it fits with the rest of it because it just looks so normal, like the first like minute of the movie where they're like in a morgue and it's just like guys in corporate suits and a guy in a wheelchair looking at a dead body in a cardboard box, and it's like wait a minute, the rest of the movie looks so fantastic, you guys couldn't reshoot this scene.
SPEAKER_01:It doesn't make a lot of like it's almost like you just gotta roll with the punches at the beginning. I I I I don't I don't know why that's that's part of it.
SPEAKER_02:That's part of it. Yeah, no, I get it, I get it. Uh so then you have Naitiri, who is the daughter of basically the clan chief and the clan shaman. We have uh Atu Khan, who is the Oloikhtan or leader of the Omatakaya clan. Um there's like different clans of the Navi, uh, and this is like the main one that Jake Sully uh joins in you know in his journey. Um you have Naitiri, the daughter of Atukan, the leader. Um she's also the daughter of Moat, the basically like the village shaman, you know, like the one that's there to cleanse people and all that, the the spiritual leader. Navi term for that is Sahik. So we got the Oloiktan leader and the Sahik, the you know, spiritual leader. Uh Natsiri is their daughter. Sorry, I'm beating a dead horse at this point. Um, I see you. Oh Nati Kamaya, yeah. That's uh I see you. I like that. Yeah, no, it's good. I think that that's let's talk about that. There's some phrases in this movie that kind of stick out as being unique uh in terms of how one communicates with another. Uh it's almost like saying I respect you, or I understand where you're coming from, you know. And I I think I see you can have a lot of meaning. It could be like I love you. It could be I understand you, I respect you, um, or any anything in between that, you know, and I think that's part of uh why it's such a cool turn of phrase. And it becomes such a even into the second movie, there's a a scene in the second movie where like one of the characters says, I see you. And it's it it's one of those scenes that like actually brings me to tears. Not gonna lie, like second movie, I watch it to feel something. Like I genuinely watch the second movie to feel something.
SPEAKER_01:It's almost like talking about one movie um becomes that much more enjoyable when you talk about like a a movie around it.
SPEAKER_02:I I see where this is going. Rich, here's the thing. Here's the thing. I'm I'm capable of separating this title and this title, they don't merge for me, they're not the same thing. You just wait 10 years, alright. I know. I I God I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, so you you mentioned that it seems like a a design flaw that the avatars don't have a place where they kind of like log off, but they do actually. At the beginning of the um, like one of the first, I think it's the first night of Jake in his avatar, they go to like a bunker. Like all the avatars go to a bunker. And you know, he's looking at his, you know, his uh his little tail thing, and he's just like, huh, this is weird. And Grace is like, don't play with that, you'll go blind. It's funny. Yeah, I know. But okay, so he's supposed to end up there, but the day that he goes out with them and is chased by that beast and eventually found by Naytiri and the Omatakaya people, that obviously like goes out the window because he's now kind of infiltrated their camp.
SPEAKER_01:Alright, yeah. Now now now that's coming back to me. That makes more sense now. So, alright. So, like they I still, I mean, I get it's a very complicated movie.
SPEAKER_02:Because like they're and it's a long movie.
SPEAKER_01:The thing is, like, there's a lot of things. They don't if they've acknowledged to like the Navi know that they're I'm sorry, what is it? It's not is it dream walkers? What do they call them? Is it I want to say it's I think it's dream walkers or something.
SPEAKER_02:What do they call uh yeah, so the Navi call them dream walkers.
SPEAKER_01:So like they're they call them like they're dreamwalkers, so they they already know them. Like, I I don't know. I I guess like I part of me is like, wouldn't you want to be more undercover? Uh but it's like that they're were they just past that point in their interactions, like where they wanted to reveal themselves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I mean we I you read at least one uh you read a couple of the comics that I said. Yeah, like I know the the first the first was Adapter Die. I mean that's not the first one that came out, you know, in release order, but like that's the earliest in the timeline that we have story-wise of those comics. So Adapter Die follows like 12 years before the events of Avatar. And it's about how Grace Augustine convinces the Omatakaya people to start a school so that they can teach the children the ways of the sky people, and the the children could teach the you know this the humans how the omatakaya live, basically. It's kind of a bridging of things. We never see the school in either this movie or in the comic book. At some point, between those two events, the the school actually gets shot up. Oh um by by some of the like RDA, the the humans. They they they tried to like I I guess there was kind of like a rebellion within some of the the kids of the the Omatakaya at that point. The RDA show up and they they kill a couple of the kids, basically. And that that is part of why there's such a huge tension between the dreamwalkers and the omatikaya people at the beginning of this movie, and that's why they allowed Jake Sully to show up where the others they are like apprehensive because there's they haven't seen a dreamwalker who has you know been a warrior before this, you know. They've all been scientists, whatever. So um that's part of it. And you know, in the the second book that you read, I believe it's uh Sute's path or Sute's journey. Yeah, he goes to the the the Tree of Souls, the tree of voices, and he you know c connects to it and he sees the the he sees Silwanen, which is Nayti's sister, Natiri's older sister who died in that school shooting, basically. So his true love was Naitiri's older sister. So that's that's part of this whole convoluted thing, I know. Um and uh you guys listening at home are just like, oh but yeah. So let's talk about the the story itself. Because, you know, a lot of people, you know, they they like to uh I guess boil it down to it's Pocahontas in space or it's dances with wolves or this or that. And yeah, there there are a lot of stories that kind of fall into this category of you know, uh advanced civilization visits uh a native people and learn that what they're doing is wrong. You know, there's there's a there's a bunch of stories that fall into that path. How do you feel about Jake Sully as a character coming into this world, where he starts and where he ends?
SPEAKER_01:Well, okay, it it it was predictable, right? Is I mean I I because of that, like the trope, yeah. You know, like it it it is kind of like Pocahontasy. It feels like his kind of movement or his growth or character development from the beginning to the end does seem a little sped up, for lack of a better word, right? Like he you know, you you kind of don't really know who this guy was too much, other than that he was a jarhead, you know, and and now he just he takes so incredibly quickly to everything. Like he's he's great at controlling the body and being in there, right? He's so good at everything, like he's a jar head who learns language incredibly quickly. Uh he's a he's a military guy who very early on demonstrates that he's willing to break military protocol. Like he's he he like he breaks the chain of command essentially, you know, and and thinks for himself. Which I don't know if this is going to be offensive, right? But I I don't I don't think that the I think when you think of the armed forces, right? When you think of a soldier, you know, somebody who takes orders, you know. And he granted there there were there was a reason for it, you know, uh but I I do sometimes feel like you know feel like you know that's another kind of thing where you can kind of where the soldier type easily bec quickly becomes or very easily becomes disillusioned with those in command. You know? It's almost like this is one of those weird instances where I think many times I've said I wish this was a movie instead of a TV show when we were watching talking about something. And in this case it's like I actually wish this was a TV show instead of a movie. Like I wish this was like 12 episodes so you could more see Sully Oh his you could so you could see his art.
SPEAKER_02:Because he's a military dude. So I mean you can I'm gonna play devil's advocate here p even though I don't really know uh Sully's backstory too well from when he was on Earth, but uh presuming he was uh a veteran who lost his legs in the war, whatever war it was. Oh, I think they say it's Venezuela, they they call it some mean bush. I forgot about that. Yeah. Um, so he was in Venezuela, he lost the use of his legs, and has been on Earth who knows how long since then, you know, his legs are extremely atrophied as opposed to the rest of his body, so it's been a while. It seems like he has had enough time to be away from military command to start to resent it a little bit. And by the time that he shows up to you know, that that first briefing when he first arrives on Pandora, he's almost blasé about it. He's almost like uh good old uh military briefing, or you know, like it's something that he's experienced before. So he's had he's been around the block. So I that's how I kind of take it, uh at least that part of him, you know, like the his willingness to break military command, whatever. Yeah, I I think he was still at the beginning, still very much, you know, a military guy and willing to get to willing to have the second chance, um, to to you know do something right by his you know commanding officers, whatever. But this definitely broke him. Um, you know, just just being with the Navi and experiencing life outside of you know, outside of the confines of like, you know, the mechanical world that they live in, I think really, you know, gave him new meaning to life, you know. Uh what did you think of the the villain Quarich? So we have a couple villains, and I I I I really like the name, the names that they give these characters, because I don't think they're real names in real life. So we have Selfridge, who is the selfish guy.
SPEAKER_00:Uh just come on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, it's it's funny. It's uh it's it's very James Cameron. And then you have uh what's the other guy's name? Uh uh Miles Quarich. And it's it's almost like he has gotta quarrel with everyone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh so ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. But I I I really like Quarich as a villain. You know, like I don't like him as a character, obviously. I like it. He's a jerk, but he's so deliciously evil, you know, and he's he's a badass. Like he he goes outside when, you know, like with without a mask, and he'll he'll just be like gunning down, not even thinking about the fact that he can't breathe the air. He's just so focused on his, you know, his task. It's uh he's I love him. I love I love Korich so much. It's a it's actually a huge shame that he doesn't make it to the second movie because I I would have loved to see him again.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know. He's he's really good. I mean I like the other guy, uh the actor's Giovanna Rubisi. Uh he he just is I've seen him in other roles. He he plays the kind of entitled power hungry like jerk very well, right? Like I just think that he it's he's small in stature, but he will not be bossed around, and even when he's wrong, he just kind of sticks by his his intuition, you know, and and I just think that he that he was really good.
SPEAKER_02:I found him to be and and his intuition is just money. Uh you know, like what are what are the what are the shareholders gonna think? You know, if we don't if we don't bring this tree down, what are the shareholders gonna think, guys? Come on. Do we ever give it a forget the name of the company? The RDA. I forget what yeah, I don't know if the R and the D and the A has like an a meaning. I'm sure it does. I don't know it. But uh yeah, so it's the RDA. It's like resource development. It's not it's not whaling Utani, is it? It's not whaling Utani. You can't connect these universes. You can't just connect.
SPEAKER_01:Alright, so can I let me ask you, I'm gonna pose a question to you. They're humanoids.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna make things a little weird. But see, so we're it's like Jake Sully falls in love with me, Tyrion. A big woman. Uh, and I'm just I don't know, man. Like, am I the only one who's like, I don't know if I could fall in love with an alien race that quick. Like, I'm all about connection, you know. Like maybe if she got jokes, you know, he's a huge fan of the A team, uh, played Skyrim or something, you know. But uh on a practical level, I'm just like, I I don't know about this. I uh it it seems it seems he really dives uh dives in, you know, with uh with reckless abandon. Uh and in a way that um I'm not I think hey Jake Sully, how do you know you can use your alien body? Like I I don't know. Like how how do you know all these things? Like how you know it's there's there there's that that that to me is a little bit uh a little odd and and even uh Suye uh handing handing the tight title over, you know. I mean it's in that comic, but you know, we do know that it happens in the movie. And I think that's my overall kind of biggest complaint about this movie, and maybe it'll be rectified with the rest of the franchise, right? But for them to accept him as their kind of almost unquestioned leader type, you know, when he's an outsider, where he has the issue that you know his body can be shut off, right? You know, like like I said, over a series, yeah. You know, like but Luke doesn't become the head of the Jedi Order, you know, in one movie. I don't know. Like even Anakin doesn't get trusted, you know.
SPEAKER_02:So so we know this this movie takes place over about a hundred days.
SPEAKER_01:Um now I'm not I'm going to be a thousand percent honest. Did not pick up on that, so that does help me now because I assume this to be over just a couple like uh not that many days.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know why I so it you can uh you can follow the the video chats that he creates. It'll say recording number blank on this date, recording number blank on this date.
SPEAKER_01:So you're you're like a guy who has a track, you kind of like made an effort to make sure that you tracked the time of this movie, the timeline.
SPEAKER_02:I I have a timeline for this film written down. Um I know exactly to the day when every event.
SPEAKER_01:Is there like a place that uh people listening could maybe investigate this kind of uh timeline?
SPEAKER_02:If you go to Geek Critique, G-E-E-K-R-I-T-I-Q-U-E on YouTube, yeah, you'll find a couple avatar videos. Uh one is a complete avatar timeline between the first and second films. It came out a couple years ago. It's probably a little outdated now because there's a video game out as well. Now there's uh a couple more comics out now, and there's about to be a third film. And then there's a film or there's a video where I talk about everything that happened in the 15 years between the first and second movies. So, yes, spoiler rich, there's a 15-year gap between the movies.
SPEAKER_01:By the way, guys, do you think Deck Lopez uh over here, uh Dek Lopez told me that I should go check that out before we watch this? No, no, I uh no. He didn't give me this, all right. So, you know what? The hundred days, I'm not gonna lie to you, that that does make a difference. Like it's still, you know, a little less than I think I would want, but I I can accept it.
SPEAKER_02:I hear you. I see you, Rich. Um I definitely see you on this. Yeah, no, I it has that second act structure where it just kind of becomes a big montage sequence of like, hey, I'm getting to know the clan. They're starting to trust me. I'm allowed to fly on one of their things now. They're making me one of the people tomorrow. You know, it's it becomes one of those uh you know Rocky montages uh where you know eventually he's ready for battle um when when when he needs to be ready for battle, basically. Uh but I do think, yeah, you're right, he is a bit of a Marty Stew. You know, it's the up it's the uh gender-flipped uh Mary Sue, uh where the character just seems to have a knack for everything that they put their mind to. That's not to say that he doesn't try and he doesn't, you know, make mistakes and he doesn't start things at a place of awkwardness. But I think it's his willpower, the the the character of Jake Soley. I think he just has the willpower to prove himself because he couldn't uh in his human form prove himself anymore. So I think that's that's part of it, you know. I think it's there's also probably a level of not caring if he died, you know. So like I think, you know, if you're just in a second body and suddenly you're like 10 times stronger and three times faster, and you know, you can do whatever you want in that body. Yeah. And he kind of has that like power hungry uh, you know, vibe at the beginning of the film when he first enters his his uh avatar suit, and you know, he just runs out into Pandora, straight to Grace Augustine, who throws him a fruit that happens to be so so juicy. He bites into that thing, juice flowing everywhere.
SPEAKER_01:Guys, I you know that this look, I'm I'm I'm actually having a uh uh this is our unofficial sponsor today is uh beer monkey. Uh and it's got lots of uh berry monkey, actually. It's berry monkey. I can't read an English teacher. Uh berry monkey, lots of raspberries, lots of juicy things here.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my gosh, 9.5 uh percent. Uh yeah, okay. That's why you can't read, Rich. Uh that's why you can't read. Yeah, so you know, just as Jake Sully bit into that extremely juicy fro, please be sure to give us a juicy five-star review uh wherever you're listening to this podcast because it does help us out. It helps more people get to know the podcast. And uh, you know, we're juicy. We hope you guys are juicy as well. You know, stay juicy, my friends. But let's talk about the connection that Jake Sully has to Nate Terry. What did you was it kind of a natural? I mean, imagine that this isn't just like an alien girl. It is an alien girl, but um, obviously, like you're thrust into this world, they are actual human beings, they're not, it's not like you're with a race of animals or anything, they are humanoid personages that have emotions, uh, levels of understanding equivalent to humans, and so on and so forth, and decent figures, they're all in fantastic shape.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I just want one like really overweight Navi. Like just like one. I would love to see that. I would love to see that they're just like sipping like some fermented fruit juice, you know, like getting a little tipsy.
SPEAKER_02:I I wish I could tell you, Rich. I wish I could tell you that in the next film there is a fat like just swinging in a vine, it snaps because they're too fat, you know. I would love that, but uh I think these guys have incredible metabolisms. I think it they they're so large that they're probably eating at a calorie deficit as it is. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:You know what they don't have on their menu? They don't have meat on their menu. All right, that's the problem.
SPEAKER_02:I think I think they got meat on the menu. Um they maybe.
SPEAKER_01:This new movie fire, maybe the fire allows them to cook the meat.
SPEAKER_02:Perhaps. Perhaps. So, yeah, what did you think of the uh Nateri and Jake uh connection? Did you you you said that that was probably the weirder part for you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean it it gives me like it actually gives me dirty dancing vibes, you know, where like baby's not supposed to want to hang out with uh I can't believe I don't remember his name right now. Uh Dustin uh Swayze, right? And then you know she doesn't she doesn't she's not supposed to she's not supposed to fall in love with him, but despite all odds and his and his his rough way about him, she does, you know, and and and it's it's similar here. It's it's the forbidden fruit kind of like romance, right? It's it's typical for these stories. I I I could I I know that you want to have romance in these big stories. But like, you know, we've talked about you know in The Hobbit where there's that fake romance with uh uh Keely, I think it is, and uh the made up elf that they uh they put in the movie uh the uh Evangeline Lily, you know. And I feel like it happens. I mean, I was surprised I was shocked when I watched the sequel Star Wars movies. I don't know. I was shocked when Kylo Wren and uh and Ray kissed. I I my jaw I was like, what are they doing? Uh I was like, that that they they didn't that was just a Jedi connection. Like, that's not sexual. Like, what are you doing? You know? That's like if like Mace Windu and Luke Skywalker just started making out, which would have been weird because you know Mace is dead. But still, like it's it it's just like I get it, you have to include the romance angle, but I I don't like it. I don't like it. I okay. I like both characters, and I guess obstensibly I'm like okay with like her being happy, right? But like, yeah, it it's too much. Like, if she hadn't been promised essentially to I'm gonna say his name wrong again, Sutai Suute, right? Right, because it's like the implication is that because well, also the creepy implication that like since her sister died, now she has to be with him, which is you know, I'll leave that alone because I'm just gonna l chalk that up to like native stuff and we're gonna leave it there, and I'm not gonna further analyze that. But the fact that she then has to kind of step into that role and then she's promised to him, and then he loses the respect or he essentially gives his mantle over to this outsider who then she also loves. Like he gets everything, right? Like Jigsuli gets everything, right? And it's I I wish she hadn't been promised to Suce. You know, I wish that she was just another Navi who did happen to fall in love with him and didn't have the role because she's also the daughter, right, of Moat. Am I getting the name that name right? Look at that, look at that. Yep, I'm not sure. Right? So she's it's like the atypical, like she's an important member of the tribe who falls in love. And I wish he would have deviated. Like if she's an unimportant member of not an unimportant member, right, but like not a high standing member of the tribe. I don't know. It it kind of makes more sense. I understand that like by falling in by by her being the one, then more people might believe in him and stuff. You know, I I I get all those it's very formulaic, and I think that's like sometimes the movie got so formulaic that I was like, ugh, you like I still liked it and it still looks really nice, right? But I think that's why I've heard the scuttle butt of like two the second movie expanding more, right?
SPEAKER_02:Or like being Yeah, it it's it's not that story at all. It's not it's not the it's not Pocahontas at all in the second one. So it it completely that is old news. This the second movie is 15 years later. Uh and I and they have to do this, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like they have to do this movie. Like it's it's almost like I under I as much as I'm complaining, there's no way around it. You're you're making a new world, you you know, you're doing one movie, you don't know and realistically, realistically, how would humans react?
SPEAKER_02:Or why would humans go to another planet, first of all? It would be for resources or for you know a new place to live. Do you think so? Um resources are colonization, and what would they do to the native people there? They would do exactly what the RDA are doing, you know, like that's just human nature. So it's what you have to do a face.
SPEAKER_01:Well, two questions. Tell me question number one. Yeah. Unobtainium? Did he have a baby? Did he have a baby in the room? Like, well, well, you know, it's like we can't obtain it on Earth. It's almost unobtainable. Oh no?
SPEAKER_00:Anapanium? Like, what? What was the motivation for that?
SPEAKER_01:And like, do you think that titanium is used to make the perfect birthstone? Because as you know, all earthlings value birthstones among above all else. And when you're born and the birthstone you get matters. But what if we level the playing field and just made the best?
SPEAKER_02:Everybody, everybody gets titanium. Yeah. Everybody gets unobtanium as a birthstone. I love it. Um so unobtanium is the is is the stone basically that helps the the floating mountains float, you know? Like that's that's what that is. Like, so I don't really I don't know the practical values uh besides like in transportation and stuff that it would have on Earth. But yeah, that's that's kind of one of those things that you just have to roll your eyes over. And I don't even think they say it in the second one. Like they they just kind of get rid of that plot line in the second one. There is there is monetary value in the world of Pandora, um, but it isn't solely in on Optanium.
SPEAKER_01:Anything else, anything else would have been fine. Yeah, anything would have worked. And it's just like he's been making movies for so long. It had to be a troll job. Like, I feel like he knew He probably had fun.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he probably had fun with that. Like it seemed like something that like even even he with his corny one-liners um realize like this is either gonna make people laugh or make people upset. Uh, because nobody rolls. I don't think I've ever seen anyone who's just like, yeah, it's just on obscanium, you know. Like, yeah, yeah. Uh no, that's uh that's an actual criticism. Yeah, I I that is valid, valid criticism of this movie. Let's talk about something that you potentially did like. How did you feel about the visuals?
SPEAKER_01:So I thought it would look fantastic. I mean, what kind of stinks about it is what year did this come out?
SPEAKER_02:This was 2009, so it was a year after Iron Man.
SPEAKER_01:Like I watch it now and it's like, yeah, looks good, right? But also it's like I just watched Rings of Power like an hour beforehand, where they pulled up the new menure, you know. And we've spoken at length on uh prior episodes. By the way, you guys can go back and check out those episodes that we did in Rings of Power if you look back in the feed.
SPEAKER_02:But uh I hadn't considered that, you know, podcasts you can visit retroactively. So this is actually news to me. But yeah, now that I think about it, you you have 138 other podcasts you can you know check out within our you know history.
SPEAKER_01:Uh it's just it's I yeah, I it's like the draw of this movie was go to the movies and see something that you've almost basically never seen, right? Uh at home that you can't see at home, you know. And right. You know, uh by no m by no means am I opulent or garish in really any of the items that I own, but uh I do have this large TV now and I watched it, you know, and I and I feel like I got a very similar experience to what people must have gotten back then, but now it's not as impressive, you know.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm gonna stop you there, just just because the major draw for this one was the 3D aspects to it.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, really? Okay, it was so okay. So like the full goggle experience.
SPEAKER_02:Not only did it look fantastic, but it was also filmed in a new 3D.
SPEAKER_01:Did they have like the or like it was they didn't have any of those like moments where it's like I'm gonna splash you? Like they didn't do that.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, it just it was just fully immersive. Like it felt like you were in Pandora. That was what was so cool about it. And that's what it that's what made it like over two billion, you know. Like that was that must have been how did I miss that?
SPEAKER_00:Must have been so cool.
SPEAKER_02:Same same with the second one, the way of water. Wait, really? Part part of the the I'm guessing, yeah, 100%. Like these films are meant to be seen in three 3D. So does that change? They look fantastic. It doesn't change the story. But like this. But it because that's a comp I I will say, I will say that these films are meant to be seen in the biggest IMAX theater you can. I go to I go to New Rock, you know, um, and I go to that IMAX theater. Um, and it's always in in 3D, and it's an incredible experience.
SPEAKER_01:Was it as was it as good as when I went to go see the uh the Lord of the Rings movie, and then they uh they moved us out of the IMAX and couldn't watch it because it it restarted three times, and then we just left.
SPEAKER_02:So actually, last time I they were they re-released The Way of Water a couple weeks back. And I saw with uh my brother, my brother-in-law, his girlfriend, and uh my wife, and um we're all like looking through the glasses, and I'm just like, it's like hard to look at. I'm just like, what's going on? Apparently they gave us the wrong glasses, like they gave us like the four the 4DX glasses, but they needed to give us the IMAX glasses. So a guy came in like, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, and gave everyone like I was like, thank god it happened in like the first two minutes. Like uh but but yeah, part of part of the the joy of this movie when it first came out was you know, you've had 3D gimmicks in the past, you've had them for decades, you've had them since the 80s, you know. Uh but this was something that was strictly filmed for 3D, you know, so that's part of the actual experience. Um, and you had 2D showings of this that still looked good. That you know, you you watched it on your screen at home, looked fantastic, or at least it did, you know, in comp for a 2009 film. But but yeah, that that is part of it that you can't really get at home unless unless you have like a crazy 3D setup. But like, I don't know, I've never even been to a house with a 3D setup. Like it nobody, nobody gets into that. You know, it's just not a niche that people you know pay for at home. But um, but yeah, so that's that's part of it. But I'm it it is cool going back to this movie and seeing that like this looks really good, you know. Like I I I think of like movies in my my youth, like the early 2000s, like late 90s, that I thought, wow, this looks incredible, you know. Like at the time, I thought, you know, oh man, Bugs Life looks great. Uh Toy Story 2, wow, that's you know, it really is like crazy. It feels so realistic. There was another older movie. I think it was like that. Terminator 2 actually still kind of holds up in weird ways, you know. Like it's it's weird. But T1000, the The Abyss, uh, the 1989 James Cameron movie, that still looks really good. Um, but yeah, so for whatever reason, Avatar really holds up. Uh almost uh it's like 16 years later at this point. And it it still looks like super crisp. I'm looking, I'm my my the background is one of the characters from the film, Suute, completely uh digitally created character, and he's got that classic Suute scowl on, and he looks lifelike, dude. It's it's it's scary. Like I I can see the the bumps on his skin. Why this guy has bumps on his skin, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Uh you guys can't see it, but he almost looks better than than Jack Lopez.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, actually, like he's more defined than the camera, the webcam that I have on my it's it's uh it's quite bizarre. Anyway, yeah, so that that's that's part like that's part of the experience of Avatar is that it's just it feels so real, and they did such a good job of bringing the world to life that it's just exciting to enter it and then re-enter it when you're revisiting it. But we're we're a little over an hour now into the into the podcast. Let's let's start wrapping this one up unless you have more to say about uh anything in particular. What did you have any thoughts?
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, uh Anthony, big surprise since you couldn't make it this week. I'm not sure if you heard, but the World Series game on Monday night went 18 innings, and we're gonna go double duty, folks. We're going another hour. All right, we're gonna double up. If baseball can do it, so can we. So buckle in one more hour of discussion. Not really. Uh that'd be wild though. I uh no, I I I the graphics were really cool. I'm actually I'm kind of kicking myself. I can't believe that I've somehow missed the 3D event of the century uh twice. Uh so I'm actually excited to go see it at 3D, and I'm gonna be very excited to hear my wife uh you know, I I'm actually are we are we gonna be discussing the no, you guys already discussed it. So uh just so for you so you know, I'm gonna watch it and at least No, no, no.
SPEAKER_02:We are we are I am I am instituting something on the podcast for next week. We are revisiting a title. That's the first time in Project Ecology that we've done that for an episode. So next next week we are gonna be covering the way of water, even though I covered it with Anthony a couple years back. We're gonna be doing uh the way of water next week. Um so Rich, you you can you know give me all of your thoughts then. But you know, I forget we we have a third voice on this podcast and we haven't really allowed it to speak. So uh your your wife didn't.
SPEAKER_01:No, I mean so Vecifra so one of the reasons that I didn't see it is actually because she had seen it before I had when you know we were uh we were together and she was going off about how much she disliked it, how there it was very white savory, you know, how you know and and I there there's parts of me that you know, like look, I would have been totally cool with like Sully uh Jake Sully saving them, right? And then but not having the position of kind of power that he has by the end. Right. Like if he was just a contributor, right? Like it would have been totally fine, right? But just that the fact that they like handed the mantle over to him was I think probably defin uh it's definitely what triggered uh you know uh Lauren into to just disliking it. And and once she got that taste in her mouth, I don't think there was anything that the movie like I don't think there was any although Jake Suey was able to uh but that he you know that he was able to win over the people again despite their doubts, you know. Uh that wasn't enough for her. You know, she wasn't one over. And and I I and I can I I see that point of view. And that's definitely like what I went into the movie with that background kind of of my wife strongly disliked.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so you were you were expecting something along those lines.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so you know, she you know, she right away was I mean she almost it's crazy, kind of slightly encyclopedic. I was like, oh here comes, here comes, you know. And I I I see her side to an extent, you know, I I get it, but I also don't think I if I have to be honest, I I generally try to not think so deeply when I go into fantasy worlds, you know. I don't try to think about uh what role Theodin uh what world leader Theodin would most be like, you know? Uh he's France Ferdinandesque. Like I don't know. Like I I don't I don't I don't really generally make a lot of those parallels and and granted, like look, uh i it's tough, right? You know, we we we learn about American history in one way or or colonialism overall in one way, right? And how and then we grow up and we find out so much of the negatives that maybe we weren't told as small children, and then you see this movie, which is very much that kind of story that we've heard and as adults realized that it wasn't, you know, as as Reyard Kippling would say, you know, the white man's burden uh quite so much, right? So I I I I think there are just layers of that that can easily trigger people into that.
SPEAKER_02:And and I've yeah, that it's it's it's been something that's like triggered people. For decades at this point, you know, like, but I think that's and not to negate her viewpoint of it, because that's totally valid. You know, we we do uh learn about all the colonization efforts over the past couple centuries within you know just America alone. And you you have to make that parallel because that that's the parallel that is being fronted to you. You know, this is a bunch of American-speaking, you know, like everyone in this movie has an American accent, you know, all the all the all the RDA white people have that American accent. They're coming to another world, they're trying to relocate people of another tribe, and Jake Soly is like part of them, you know, he's he's infiltrating their colony so that he can tell them this message to get out. I think where this changes for me, because it looking at it that way, you you 100% have that, you know, white savior story, you know, like you have a character coming in to save them from either themselves or from a greater threat. But usually in those instances, the savior saves them by means of their higher technology, you know, or they're bringing their technology to bear on uh the the quote unquote lesser population of indigenous people. So the the difference for me in this one is that he's not bringing uh a whole bunch he's not giving them a whole bunch of technology to defeat the humans. He's using the Navi, he's becoming Navi because he realizes what's right. You know? Uh so I think for me that is kind of the antithesis or antithesis of the wrong word, but it's it's kind of like the anti of the trope that the film purports itself to be from the onset. You know what I'm trying to say?
SPEAKER_01:I I think the only issue is that the movie affords us and the characters that the kind of conceit that Sully looks like that. Because right? Because like if you do this and like he, you know, he can't inhabit the Navi body, right? Like he's just like white jakes. Obviously, his body's broken and whatever.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just trying to say, like, if he couldn't do that in his in his body. Yeah, that I I see what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01:No, that that's I think that's kind of like what uh allows it to kind of yeah, it it doesn't make it different, you know. I in a almost uh unfair way, right? Like, because obviously if like John Smith could have looked more I'm gonna say Sue, I think I'm wrong, right? Or whatever. Uh up from Africa, whatever. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. You know, but the idea is like, you know, obviously when the the the outsider savior is able to to to to assimilate so much because of because of uh of appearance, I think that that's that that does slightly change it. And I and I think that the I think you're right in in the way that like I it it is hopefully trending in a different direction. Because I think that once once this is done, once this world building and establishing is done, then hopefully you can get to more interesting things, right? Because what once you get past that that kind of basic story that we that we've uh seen in so many different mediums before.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so this next film that we're gonna be covering next week, uh The Way of Water, is an entirely different beast in scope, in storyline, in character dynamics, and just about everything. The only thing that you really need to remember is the humans were kicked off of Pandora, they've been away for uh this whole time, you know, the all all 15 years, blah blah blah. Um, and how does life change in that time period for Jake Sully, uh Natiri, the Omatikaya, and the the Navi.
SPEAKER_01:So this is like you know, we know the the this is when the fire the fire nation comes and and and against uh the waterbenders?
SPEAKER_02:Not yet. That would be movie three. Um yeah, no, uh I had to make one avatar, you know, the Nickelodeon cartoon show. Uh yeah, the last airbender, you have to make some connections. There there is quite a bit of connections to Avatar and Avatar the Last Airbender in terms of um, you know, balance with nature and balance with the world and different nations fighting and the different uh you know, as soon as you get to the second, you know, movie where it's about you know becoming one with water or whatever, you you start to like really make the connections of like, well, these people are like waterbending, they're not waterbending, but you know what I'm saying. What I will say to that, you know, a lot of people will say that James Cameron took the idea of Avatar from The Last Airbender, which came out before this, but the reason Avatar the Last Airbender didn't call itself Avatar, just plain Avatar, is because James Cameron had the the copyright for the name Avatar since the early the mid-90s. Apparently he came up with this in a dream. He has early storyboards from like the early 90s of like the the blue people that he found that he saw in a dream. I promise you.
SPEAKER_01:I just want to be clear, all right. I don't think that just because some guy takes some edibles in the late 90s and wakes up in the middle of the night and writes something down. Like, do you know how much stuff I would have had copyrighted, sir? Alright, like it's this is like But you're not a filmmaker, my dude.
SPEAKER_00:So that's uh and also the fact that Avatar is like a word, right?
SPEAKER_01:That's that's yeah, no, it is work. It is work. Yeah, it's not like a a proprietary name, right? It's a word that means something that applies to both, right? Like stories. So that's so that's the only thing that you know, it's like you know, let's get ready to rumble was also uh copyrighted. Oh, and um and I I just want to speak up for Anthony. He just sent me a text and he said to remind the listeners about how excited we all are that Ripley is gonna be back in the next movie. Like, I I have an I have a feeling that Ripley's gonna be back. Alright? Like, I don't think she's gone. She she you guys kept telling me she was gone and she came back. So based on everything that we talked about for the last seven weeks, I know in my heart that Grace Augustine will be back in the second movie in the second movie.
SPEAKER_02:So what it where do all right, let's let's roll with your logic because I wanna you and you know obviously know nothing about the second movie, so I want to hear your ration in the tree like uh Swillinian uh Silwana.
SPEAKER_01:She's still in like her spirit still inhabits the tree. Okay, yeah, so her spirit lies with her ancestors. Okay, I see it. There is a possible chance for for rebirth in some way when when Sullyn, when Jake Sully needs it most. Maybe even if it's a decent body, like she can go full Obi-Wan, right? You know, like like oh you lied to me. You lied to me, Grace. She's like, well, you know, it's from a certain point of view. You know, I I think I like it.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, okay. So, all right, so you your opinion is that Grace Augustine will return. Sigorni Weaver in some form will return to the second movie.
SPEAKER_01:Of course, ghosts.
SPEAKER_02:Jedi Ghost. All right. Now, what about uh any anyone else? Like who obviously we we talked about Jake Sully and we talked about Nate Terry appearing in the second one. Do you have any ideas as to who else you would like to return?
SPEAKER_00:Well, no. I think those are basically uh Moen is still around.
SPEAKER_02:I I can't Moet is still like around. Uh as as far as the end of this.
SPEAKER_01:But I think that this is the movie where you make new people, you make new characters, you build new relationships, uh, you nestle us into that world 15 years in, and you I'm just I'm just so pissed off that they killed Koret.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I'm so he's the best villain.
SPEAKER_01:You know, like we've redoubled our troops, you know, we requisitioned new items. You know, like this is the new weapon that we're gonna use against them. Oh, I love it. I wish they like they commandeer the uh I'm gonna call them pterodactyls because I'm a terrible human, but uh you know You are, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The Ekron. Oh, that would actually be cool if they if if we got Original Marines. Yeah, they call them banshees, the humans call them banshees, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh that that uh torok. Uh that would be fun. Okay, all right, let's let's bring this to a close. Next week we will be discussing the way of water. Uh Rich, last thoughts on Avatar 2009.
SPEAKER_01:If it was a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, and I don't have a track meet and it's raining outside, and I put this on TBS, I would watch it with commercials. Like it's it's a fun it's it's it's pretty good. You know, it's pretty good. I'm not gonna go out of my you know, I wear you know, like I don't I it I'm not dancing on the rooftops or singing from the rooftops and telling everyone to watch it, but I didn't have at all a bad time watching it. I I thought it was a I didn't feel like it was a waste of my time at all. And from everything I've heard, I wanna see what happens because I feel like this was a a starting point. Uh and I wanna kind of you know, I mean, look, if you look at New Hope, right, you could say there are holes there, right? I uh it's almost like New Hope gets stronger because of what comes after it. So I'm hoping that this is the same case.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Uh with Avatar and with all of James Cameron's stuff, one of the themes that you can find in every one of his movies is family. Whether, you know, Terminator 1, you have Sarah Connor who has who you know she's pregnant with with John Connor. You know, like that's that's part of it. She's protecting that seed. Um, aliens, you have Ripley finding the the young girl new and taking her on as her daughter. You have Terminator 2, you have the found family of uh John Connor and the T1000. Uh and and also you have Sarah Connor in it. You can keep going. You know, you have Titan Fast and Furious. Family, yeah. If only if only James Cameron uh directed any of those. Uh Titanic, you have the you know, like the the grandmother and don't took uh I'm not gonna get into it. There's enough room for him on the board. He could have hung on. There was, there was, there was um let's let's we're digressing with Avatar. You have uh Jake Soli entering uh the Omatakaya as his family, you know, like and that only continues. And I think actually the next film is James Cameron's strongest family-oriented story. Um, and I think that is probably the coolest thing about it because just think to yourself, when was the last time you saw a nuclear family on on screen like be the focal point of a major blood bump?
SPEAKER_01:A month and a half ago. It was called Fantastic Four First Steps.
SPEAKER_02:Nuclear family. Oh, sorry, sorry. Uh I feel like a jerk now. No, I I I I threw that word nuclear in there just because I thought Fantastic Four was gonna come up. But I guess you could talk about uh Incredibles. Incredibles was you know, but that was a couple decades ago at this point. But anyway, we're we're we're running off course here, we're running out of we're running out of steam. Thank you so much for listening to us here for our 139th episode. Avatar, as always, tops my MCU uh charts um right up there at number seven, sometimes number six. Six, seven, six, seven. Um seven six. But yeah, no, I I I love this movie, uh, but not as much as I love the next one. And I'm very excited to hear Rich's thoughts on uh some of the returning cast and uh yeah, everything. I'm I'm like so excited for you to watch the next movie. It's Rich, it is my favorite movie of the past decade. Wow, even more than Love and Thunder.
SPEAKER_01:I would say it tops Love and Thunder. Okay. I'm I'm excited, guys, because I don't know if you guys know that's his top movie.
SPEAKER_02:It's my top movie outside of Way of Water, guys. Thank you so much. Um, we'll see you on the next one. Stay juicy, my friends.
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