Project Geekology
Embark on an epic journey with Anthony and Dakota as they delve into the vast realms of geek culture, from cherished classics to cutting-edge creations. Join us for an exhilarating adventure of exploration and nostalgia, as we unearth hidden gems and reminisce about the moments that have shaped us. Welcome to the ultimate celebration of all things geeky!
Project Geekology
Andor - Season 2, Part 2
The rebellion's darkest hour becomes Star Wars' finest achievement in Andor Season 2's concluding episodes. We dive deep into how Tony Gilroy crafted a masterclass in tension, political intrigue, and character development that forever changes our understanding of the Star Wars universe.
The Gorman massacre stands as perhaps the most haunting sequence ever created in Star Wars - a perfectly constructed trap that shows the Empire's ruthless calculus and leaves us questioning how we'd respond in similar circumstances. This leads to fascinating discussions about Syril Karn's moral journey: is his horror at witnessing genocide enough to redeem his previous actions, or does his confrontation with Dedra only further complicate his character?
Mon Mothma emerges as the unexpected MVP of these episodes, delivering a Senate speech that rivals anything in the franchise for political tension. The procedural details - senators yielding their time, parliamentary maneuvers - create an authenticity rarely seen in science fiction. This groundwork makes her eventual leadership of the Rebellion all the more earned and meaningful.
The Force makes its first significant appearance through the mysterious healer who identifies Cassian as a "messenger" - a subtle but powerful reminder that even in this grounded take on Star Wars, cosmic forces still guide the galaxy's fate. Meanwhile, Luthen's capture and Kleya's difficult decision to ensure he doesn't fall into Imperial hands delivers emotional devastation without feeling manipulative.
Perhaps most satisfying is how perfectly these episodes connect to Rogue One, answering questions we didn't even know we had. From Cassian's pre-existing knowledge of Galen Erso to his partnership with the newly-reprogrammed K-2SO, every element enriches our understanding of his journey toward Scarif. The show demonstrates how prequels should function - not just filling gaps, but transforming our perspective on what comes after.
Why does this series resonate so deeply? Because it never forgets that resistance requires sacrifice, that freedom fighters aren't always heroic, and that hope often comes at terrible cost. Andor depicts the messy, complicated birth of a rebellion with unflinching honesty - proving that Star Wars can deliver sophisticated adult storytelling without sacrificing what made us fall in love with this galaxy far, far away.
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Hey guys, welcome to episode 125 of Project Geekology. We have a very special show today. We're talking Andor season 2, specifically the last six episodes. So we are completing our Andor discussion this week. I'm one-third of your host, dakota. I'm joined, as always, with Rhydonium.
Speaker 2:Every day more lies. This is Anthony. You know, yes, we are covering andor super excited and you know, joining us, as always is rich.
Speaker 3:What's going on, guys? I'm very excited to really jump into this. I think the maybe the best half season of the show I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:I think it might be the best half season of a show period. I think I mentioned it on the, the podcast before, but the last five episodes of andor, you know, from episode 8 to episode 12, are the only live action episode, the only consecutive live action episodes in a TV show to rate over 9.5 on IMDb, which is just a staggering score. Because everybody knows Star Wars Online is very polarized so it's very unlikely that that could ever happen. But this show really is that good. So if you haven't seen it and you're allowing yourself to be spoiled, just step away for a little bit.
Speaker 2:Watch andor yes, very good. Yes, actually, before we we hop into the stuff that we've been into, go definitely go check the show notes and we will place the time stamp for when the discussion actually starts. So go head on over there right now if you want to skip what we've been up to. You know it won't. It won't hurt our feelings, we won't know, but uh yes, it'll hurt, it'll hurt.
Speaker 3:Speak for yourself, man, like honestly I have about 17 minutes of baseball talk that I'm about to get into guys yeah, strap in, baby, we're, we're, we're.
Speaker 2:Mid-discussion of moving Rich over to a baseball podcast.
Speaker 3:Rich and the Rumble Ponies, a podcast only about the Binghamton Mets, the AA-level team. So if you guys want to check that out, just search that up.
Speaker 2:There you go. Well, I mean since we're on you, you rich, won't you tell us what you have been up to?
Speaker 3:oh, so in the time that we have talked uh, charlie, actually my son graduated from k to five, fifth grade. I'm sure you're all excited, but what you really care about is that I'm excited I decided that it was time for his half birthday gift, because we had already got him a graduation gift, and I went ahead and got him a switch too nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember you uh mentioning that, the last episode yeah, so I finally got to pick it up.
Speaker 3:On june 20th I picked it up. I gotta hand me up. So I got the. I got the switch one now which? Is great because you know this kid, like he had lent it to me last summer, early on, and I was trying to I didn't want to say I was in a hundred percent breath of the wild, but I wanted to explore it, I wanted to get deep into it, I wanted to just really play it like I would say red dead redemption and he's like, oh, you got enough hearts.
Speaker 3:You could be ganon. And he like directed me to because he had already beat it and he was playing um, he wanted to play tears of the kingdom, so he kind of rushed me through it. So I'm really happy now because I've been playing it, he's, now you can actually breathe breath of the wild I finally got.
Speaker 3:I never had the online account like I had it under. Oddly, I was umbrellaed under his account and then I finally kind of got a family account. So now I have my own proper thing and he's got his switch too. He's got the expansion pack, so he got the upgrades for breath of the wild and for tears of the kingdom. So he's been playing that again and actually he's playing wind waker now, but the load times are. I mean, it's crazy, it's I really. If you have the money, and even though the lineup right now is not super star-studded, that I don't think you have to run out and get it. I will say that the way that the controllers attach and detach the Joy-Cons are so much, so so much better, Like it's like a button, kind of magnet thing, that kind of snaps on and off instead of doing the sliding.
Speaker 3:Okay, because we had gotten some like third party controllers and the actual the joy cons like yeah, they don't and they don't always like yeah, they'd slide off a little bit.
Speaker 3:it'd be really frustrating and I really hated it. So I got that, you know, and I paired it my, you know my son had gotten me the N64 controller, so I've been. I was playing some Mario Kart at 64. So honestly, although I was really against getting it this early, seeing the just how much better it is in all aspects, like they really. The screen size is markedly bigger.
Speaker 3:I know I would watch my students play like, I guess, mario kart or whatever, when they had it propped up and they both had joy cons and it always seemed so silly because it's such a silly, tiny screen compared to what we play on now. And this seems less silly if you're sitting there with the pal just in the middle of nowhere, whatever you set up, it doesn't seem as absurd. The screen size is nicer, the Joy-Cons are heftier, they feel nice in your hands and Charlie's happy. Yeah, no, he's ecstatic. I have a Switch One now, which I'm. Despite all the upgrades that I'm touting, I really like the Switch One. I'm going to buy Mario Odyssey, so by the next time that we cover, I'll probably have some thoughts on a game that's 12 years old.
Speaker 2:Which I actually think that also got an upgrade for the Switch 2. Oh yeah, I think that that one's running at 60 frames. I know that Pokemon, scarlet and Violet also got some really big upgrades. Now, like more Pokemon spawn, it runs at like 60 frames. You know like there's a lot of games that came out on the first switch that you know. As much as I love the switch for its innovation really hindered the potential that a lot of these games had because of how underpowered it is. And you know I mean compared to a lot of stuff that's out. You know it's still underpowered but I would say that still. You know a lot of these games like tears of the kingdom. You know that game is amazing. But I remember, you know telling myself like dude, this game is not meant for the first switch, it's just not. It could be looking so much better if we had something that was a little bit stronger to to uh support it. And now you know I've I've seen that it looks a lot better on the switch too excellent, excellent, anthony.
Speaker 1:What else? What have you been up to, honestly?
Speaker 2:not not all that much, man, uh, I I've got, I've got a couple, or I have a convention that's coming up in a couple weeks super con and I got press passes for that. So there'll definitely be either like a mini sode or a discussion on that. And, yeah, man, I, I'm, I'm pretty stoked to go to that. And I feel like, honestly and I know you feel this I feel like there's something else that I have to say, but I just don't remember and at some point I'll either remember during the podcast, like I did remember that one time I was like oh yeah, I went to go, I saw the Minecraft movie and.
Speaker 2:I forgot to mention it in the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's yeah, it's something like that's gonna happen. So I mean, I know, I know you're heavily invested in the marvel tv shows right now.
Speaker 2:Have you been watching ironheart dude? You know, like we talked about the, we had that whole discussion on on captain america 4 and you know I'm just largely kind of disillusioned with the MCU. I think that we just need a break from it for a little while. I think that they need to go back to the drawing board and really like try to figure out where their direction is. But you know, on the other hand which is kind of crazy because you know we got Star Wars We've been having consistent Star Wars for for what?
Speaker 2:The last 10 years now. I mean sure we had clone wars and rebels that came out during like the period between 2005 and 2015, but it wasn't as consistent as what we're getting now within the these like past 10 years from. You know, the force awakens up until now and you know, even though that, yes, star wars has definitely had a lot of stinkers, I am still hanging around for a lot of their stuff and you know we're about to talk about one, I mean arguably like the greatest star wars show that's out. So I'm definitely excited, excited to dive into that. What about you, dakota? What have you been up to?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I'm excited to talk about Andor as well. I do think it is the current bar for the quality standards that can be met within the Star Wars galaxy. It doesn't need to always be that mature, doesn't always need to be that level of production quality, but it can be and that's something that we didn't know before and I feel like that's something that I think a lot of people are going to expect, hopefully, moving on, and hopefully the studio also expects quality of that standard, because that will help push better content out. Speaking about, hopefully better content. Speaking about, hopefully, better content there's a rumor going around that Obi-Wan season two has been greenlit. I don't know if Rich has seen that news yet.
Speaker 3:I don't know if it was a troll or not, because I just briefly saw it and I saw some responses to it.
Speaker 1:I do think I trust the person who reported it. It's Daniel RPK. He's been in the Scoop game for a while now and, yeah, I trust a lot of his reporting. Even if it doesn't come to fruition, I do believe that there are talks being had for a potential Obi-Wan season two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that even goes as far back as the original, like when that series first dropped, because, remember, it was originally slated as a limited series and then they dropped that limited part to it. Yeah, yeah, it was almost like maybe, yeah yeah, so potentially I mean maybe, maybe they'll the you know they had something going with with obi-wan maybe if they tackle some of the issues that they had in the first season, it could have a really good second season yeah, no, they definitely it can't.
Speaker 1:It can be good, you know, it can be done. Obi-wan's a great character he's. He's got a lot of hidden stories that we have no idea about. I just hope, hope it's really good.
Speaker 1:Anywho, I don't have too much going on right now. The reason we were off last week I think Rich was also busy, but not so busy that he couldn't record I was frantically studying for a test that I took over this past weekend and that's over. So I'm feeling a lot better. I don't have to study like cram, study like crazy anymore. Don't know if I passed yet, but I'm pretty sure I did. So that was good and it's for my job, basically. And next week I'm going to be away. It's not going to be a normal podcast Like we. You know, instead of the topics that we normally cover, I'm going gonna be in disney world, so I'm gonna be having a lot of fun elsewhere in the world, and by elsewhere I mean florida. But but yeah, I think that's all that I got going on right now. Anyone else want to bring? Oh, rich you, you did watch iron heart. You want to touch on that briefly?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's actually the best piece of Marvel TV in quite a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I, you know it's got, unfortunately. I watched three episodes. I watched four episodes. I watched the first three on the drop and then I watched the fourth one. My family had been behind me, so I watched the fourth one with them when it came out at 9 o'clock on the first night and then my son had to go to bed, so I went to sleep and I accidentally scrolled through twitter and spoiled one of the major kind of points, I think, in the last three episodes. But I ended up still really liking it.
Speaker 1:I mean, is it a point with sasha baron con? Yes, I have no idea what it is.
Speaker 3:Well, so thing, you know, but I think that I think it has some pretty big implications. I wonder how they're going to treat it. I'm curious to see, if I don't know, if it's going to be really required viewing, but I think it's way better than, let's say, echo, like echo was fine and I got some lore on a character that I didn't really care to find lore about how do you feel it compares to daredevil, because I know that you like daredevil porn definitely different shows.
Speaker 3:I mean daredevil's like law and order, svu, you know, superhero edition, and this is definitely different. I kind of liken it in a way, but I think it's better than miss marvel. I. I also have a special place in my heart for riri as well as miss marvel, because they are two characters that had comic lines come out and I started reading them from like the very beginning and right. So you're you, so you fully know these characters. Yeah, they're not like the one they swapped out and they had what's his name? Amadeus Cho as Hulk and they had Jane Foster as Thor. I like that. These are separate characters, essentially.
Speaker 1:And new characters, yeah, and.
Speaker 3:I really like Riri Williams, so I thought this was a really fun exploration. And it's again another Marvel show that does deal with grief from the grieving process, because you know what is grief but love persevering. So what is marvel but love of comics persevering through bad movies sometimes and shows to reward you with something that's actually kind of fun. So anyone out there who hasn't seen it and is on the fence about it, I would actually say that it's a really fun way to spend six hours cool.
Speaker 1:All right, you guys ready to talk about uh some kalkite and uh radonium? Yes, sir and a little bit of rogue one, because I think yes rewatched Rogue One after that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, definitely man. Yeah, I was gonna. I wanted to save that part for the actual discussion, but yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's start with the first three episodes. We're now a year past the second arc. You know the weird arc where everyone was high for some reason. And now we are. Yeah, now we actually have to deal with some major issues in the galaxy. The Empire is playing its hand. No more time is being allotted to finding Kalkide alternatives. They're going all in. They need what's under the surface of Gorman. What is your favorite episode, guys, of these last six episodes? Where do you sit? What are your favorites? The episodes start with you, anthony.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, go ahead rich as they're taking when andor has to meet up with and take care. Okay, like that. I remember we we were, I forgot we were covering, but I had spoken about watching it in the moment and how, like that was one of the most. I never thought that, like you know, the senate would get me excited, but here we were. You know, I was, I was on the edge and what's absolutely insane is I obviously knew that she was going to make it right, but I still was like oh man, what's gonna happen? What's gonna happen? And like that's a testament to tony gilroy, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean so tony gilroy was brought in late in the game when it comes to Rogue One. It had a number of drafts written and the film had mostly been shot by the time Tony Gilroy showed up and just cleaned up the plot a little bit, and some people argue that he should have gotten a partial directing credit because so much had changed with Rogue One. So much had changed with Rogue One, so it was really awesome seeing him take on the role of head writer for a show like this, for characters that we didn't think needed a show. Several like almost ten years after the Well, maybe not ten years, but a good number of years after the fact that Rogue One was complete.
Speaker 2:It was such a strange thing to get Andor and, yeah, now we're actually like receiving some of the best tv that we've seen ever right, right and and you know I've said this like multiple times you know this discussion and even outside of this discussion that you know Andor was definitely a series that nobody asked for or you know, maybe a small group of people, I'll give them that there were a lot of like. You know there were some major, you know cassie and andor fans after rogue one but you know, after you know you kind of talking about tony gilroy really, you know, taking the helm of the show you like, and we already loved what we had gotten with rogue one. Imagine if he was there from the beginning, man, it would have been probably crazy dude like that, that movie. But as far as like episodes, that the mon mothma one was really good.
Speaker 2:I really did like her monologue and and you know we finally got these two characters that we've. You know they've been kind of like on different ends of the universe and they're kind of like together. Now it's that introduction. You finally got Cassian meeting Mon Mothma. Definitely episode eight was huge. Episode eight, just like that one, was like really, really tense.
Speaker 1:And it was. It's such an insane thing to have tense. Oh yeah, it's such an insane thing to have filmed Right right and they did it well.
Speaker 2:They did it so believably you can't take your eyes away from the screen as you see everything unfolding and it's so crazy. With all the meta knowledge that you have, you know something's about to go down. You know that this is a trap, but these people don't know it's a trap. And then, obviously, the episode that I really liked a lot was the last episode. It rolled in so cleanly into Rogue One, like I mean, it rolled right into the movie.
Speaker 1:And I didn't expect it to Right Not that I didn't expect these the, the show, to like work with the movie. I didn't expect that they were going to lead the finale of and or directly into rogue one, and I'm glad that they did, because there's so many little things within the series that we learn about Cassian, we learn about his backstory, and we would have previously just taken all of that for granted. The first thing that I think you'll notice when you rewatch Rogue One you'll find a bunch of little things in there like oh yeah, how did he know about that?
Speaker 2:Or oh yeah yeah he did mention stuff like that yeah, like yeah, I thought the exact same thing, dude.
Speaker 1:It filled in so many holes when he goes to tivic on the rings of kathleen and he goes galen or so, you know, like he already knows the name galen or so before tivic brings it to his attention and it's just like, oh yeah, how would he have known who this random guy on Eadu was?
Speaker 1:You know, like he's been like a way Galen Erso is a nobody essentially in the galaxy, like he hasn't ever been anything, and it's kind of the whole plot of Rogue One is that not even his own daughter knows where this guy is. So like, how would this random rebel know anything about Galen, or so? And it's just like, wow, okay, because he found out from Luthen.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, and it's crazy because you know Tivic being like that, he's that rebel that he shoots in the beginning of that movie and you know they talk about him at the end of Andor and you're like, oh man, I know where that I know what's about to happen to that guy.
Speaker 1:do you feel that the character of andor is consistent, like fully consistent, throughout andor and rogue one, or do you feel that some of the things that he does might feel a little bit more shallow in Rogue One just because he doesn't have that backstory?
Speaker 2:I feel like Rogue, or I feel like Andor, really cements why he does what he does in Rogue One.
Speaker 2:Because of everything he's gone through man, he's gone through so much since the beginning of Season 1.
Speaker 2:And a lot of dude, it's all been for the sake of the rebellion. You know, he got sold on it by luthan and by the end of it luthan, the guy that brought him into the fold, is dead man and so like he kind of carries that, that a little bit of a chip on his shoulder because he's like you know, I've been doing this for so long. He sold out for it, man, he sold out for the rebellion. That's why it was so easy for him to like just kind of stage, like his own little, like you know, take his own little group to go to scarif it dude, that was such an andor thing to do, like just to go and do his own thing. That's on track with what he does and they they were pretty much consistent with that's what he does. Like he's part of the rebellion but he's gonna do his own thing a time or two. He will be a team player but when he needs to do something he'll do it, whether he gets the permission or not yeah, rich did you?
Speaker 1:did you notice anything from rogue one that was heightened because of your viewing of andor? I'm sure there's a couple things that like popped up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean his motivations obviously are clearer and easier to kind of understand because you know you do have him like quickly killing so flippantly and he seems very much like luthan esque in this idea that you know I do what I have to do and it doesn't matter. But now we know why he does what he has to do and why you know it's not even. It makes it more noble, almost that he's doing this for somebody who left him right, essentially like he's creating that sunrise for somebody who chose who will say it even though he.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, and that's because I think too often we get that hero who sacrifices his love, right, and that's kind of very tropey and I, I like it. I like it way better this way. I think the only thing that maybe we don't get is the. He definitely feels more like Han in that he's. You know, hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a blaster your side kid like. He feels that way way more in Rogue One and, you know, at the end of Andor, and that's obviously just because of the way they filmed it in the order, right. But he kind of seems to be a little bit more accepting of his role in the larger scheme of the force, right, and I don't feel like that's something that that continued, but that's, it's such a hyper nitpick that I can't, you know, I can't even fault them for it, you know, I like it.
Speaker 1:I like that. I guess you could take you could take that thread and kind of expand on it, because when you know, throughout the two season Fourth of July Well, it's not actually fourth of July, but I have a lot of fireworks outside.
Speaker 3:I honestly thought you had a it's 4th of July, but I have a lot of fireworks outside. I honestly thought you had a it's the 2nd of July I thought we were going to hear fee-fi-fo-fum and you had a giant sitting outside of your house knocking at the door.
Speaker 1:I didn't know what was happening, bro oh my gosh, I don't even know what side of my house that came from awesome all right, sorry guys no um what was I even saying?
Speaker 1:I feel like I hope that doesn't keep happening. You can make that point that throughout the first two seasons he learns that he is this guy who has to get the job done, or has to get from point a to point b, or he has to, like, deliver a message, or he has to deliver a person, and sometimes he does that despite his better judgment and despite other people's permission and it's consistent with rogue one, because it's exactly what he does in rogue one.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what he does. Yeah, he's a messenger he realizes.
Speaker 1:He realizes that the message that Jyn Erso has to say or is telling the Rebellion is the truth, it's something worth fighting for. And not only that, but the bigger message, which is what Galen Erso wrote into the code for the construction of the Death Star. That's a message that needs to get to the Rebellion so that they can end this thing for good. It's, it's too big of a thing to succeed, basically like the death star needed to be dealt with immediately, or else it would have become like just this huge tyrannical government across the galaxy, even worse than it already was so yeah I do like motivation wise.
Speaker 1:I do think that you know you can spin it in a way where it's like well, these things kind of make sense in retrospect. But if you are looking at the character's decisions in rogue one as opposed to what he does in andor, I feel like it's mostly mostly pretty consistent and I'm really pleased by that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Let's jump back to the first three episodes. So we have what happens on Gormin, we have Mon Mothma's speech and there's another episode. I forget what happens in the seventh episode. It's a shame because that episode was good, I remember, but it's just so overshadowed by what happens and over season two.
Speaker 3:I have, but like it's just so overshadowed by what happens and over season two, I have a hard time separating the episodes.
Speaker 2:They become so mushy because, oh well, well, wow, oh okay oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:it's the messenger episode. It's where cassian learns that you know, the force is real, basically, and it's also like an episode that kind of highlights that Bix may be Force-sensitive, because she says that she's felt it a couple times. She's felt this inkling about Cassian being something more important than what he assumes that he is and apparently she's had dreams about this. She's really contemplating like what the what the deal is with this guy?
Speaker 1:right she she finally brings him to a force healer because he's he has some injury on his arm that we don't even know where it came from a blaster shot that isn't healing, or something. So they, they take him to this force healer and, yeah, it's. It becomes this like really weird scene you guys want to like. What did you think of that scene?
Speaker 3:I mean, it's very much like it reminded me of times where, like I'm guessing, like harry, almost like harry potter, would meet someone and it was just this. Oh, there's something about you, you know, like this very chosen one. It kind of jarred me a little bit at first, because we haven't had any of that stuff right in in this story as yeah, I think that was the first time the force was brought up in both seasons, right, yeah?
Speaker 3:so it was definitely out of character almost for the show and I I wonder if they had left it out, if it would have been okay. I mean, it does explain away his penchant for being in the right place at the right time, right. And I'm not sure if they're just doing it as a way to kind of get out of that, if they're trying to ground it in some weird way. They're grounding it and making it more realistic by saying that it's because of a mystical force that's actually a funny way to put it.
Speaker 1:It's instead of, you know, trying to rationalize it with real world concepts, they're using the physical boundaries of the star wars universe, which is makeup of the force, to explain away how he has survived all these events and like why he is so pivotal to all of this, and I really like that concept. I like the idea that he learns along with us that he is kind of a chosen one, and there's a couple chosen ones in this galaxy, apparently, and they each kind of have their own path, and that's that's kind of. The cool thing about the force is that it doesn't seem like it's only focused on the Skywalker family at this point. You know like this is more than just the Skywalker family. This is the Force trying to bring balance to the galaxy.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, it's kind of going back to something that you had said before. It's that moment that really does establish Andor as a fulcrum in the star wars universe. You know, rather than like, rather than it being like a catalyst or him being a catalyst, he definitely is somebody that's essential for that to happen. You know, and yeah, I, I, I didn't that that didn't bother me so much. I thought it was actually cool to see somebody that was a force user, that I mean, maybe at one point she was a Jedi, but you know, obviously she's tapped into the force, like I always thought about, there are definitely force users that are neither Sith or Jedi. They just somehow were able to find a way to tap into it and use it, and so I kind of viewed her as that kind of person.
Speaker 1:The way I like to view the force and like all these different. You know cause there's there's different force religions and force cults out there and you know you got the night sisters, who have youightsisters, who exhibit the Force in a more magical way than the Jedi do, and the Sith are more brutalistic. There's different ways of tapping into this Force, but ultimately it's the same source of power throughout the galaxy. No matter what you call it, it's the same source of power and it's basically like one big magic system that anyone in the galaxy can interact with to some degree and with this force healer.
Speaker 1:I don't think that she was a jedi. I didn't get that vibe, especially because what it seemed to me was happening was that the I don't know how to describe it seemed like she was amateurish, you know, like it was just like an amateur thing that she was practicing and sometimes it she said it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. With cassie and it actually did work, and probably it worked well, because he was very surprised by how quickly he was able to regain motion in his arm after the fact.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I didn't catch that or I didn't think that she was necessarily a Jedi previously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pretty much exactly like. What I was thinking was that she was somebody that somewhere along the lines of her life found a way to tap into the force. And you know that could have been in many number of ways that you kind of you know named. You know there I mean, yeah, sure, there's, you know, force cults and all that stuff. But who knows, maybe there was just a group of people that got together, they figured out that they have this different connection and learned how to use it together. You know that, outside of being a cult, you know, yeah, definitely it was.
Speaker 2:It was interesting to see the andor because I mean, you know, at the end of the day, andor is still within the star wars universe and I don't think it detracted from the show. You know we did get that important moment out of. You know him, yeah, him being a messenger, that confirmation pretty much, and yeah, that that it really does. It makes you look back onto the show and it makes you look at rogue one and you realize like, yeah, this guy really is a messenger so let's jump forward to episode eight, which is the the big gorman massacre episode.
Speaker 1:It's been teased throughout the season. In the first first week we had Krennic, you know expressing that like we really need this Gorman Kalkite, which is a mineral that's found deep beneath the crust of this planet. But to get to that it will mean destabilizing the planet and killing the entire ecosystem, including everyone lives there. But you know, several years pass, they, they try to determine if it's viable to, you know, not destabilize the planet and, you know, find another alternative, which I guess was nice ish. But eventually they needed what they needed and there was, you know, nothing stopping them really right.
Speaker 2:How hard did they try that? That's the question they?
Speaker 1:they definitely. Yeah, we don't know. We actually don't know how hard they tried. They did say that they had their people on edu, which is like galen urso and all them trying to find alternatives for the panels for the weapon, but ultimately they needed Kalkai, for whatever reason, and it only seems to have existed on the planet Gormon. And yeah, so after that point we had Cyril Karn go and infiltrate the Gormon people, you know, try to start inciting a rebellion so that they could bring Axis out of hiding. And I love that arc too, because you know we have Andor coming as a fashion designer and little does Cyril know. He's like walking by Cassian for like a couple days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for real.
Speaker 1:And then, by the time of the Gormin Massacre, Cyril is seemingly a changed person. Before this was all about, you know, like he's doing his job to the utmost. You know like he's definitely going to bring these rebels down. Empire's the greatest blah, blah, blah. These people are, you know, overblowing this scenario and whatever. But as soon as you know he sees what's really happening, that they're inciting violence within, you know the, the gorman people, they're laying out a trap for them. They have ships coming to descend to mine, the planet right right cyril's a different person.
Speaker 1:What do you guys think about cyril's? You know, change of heart. Is it deserved? Is he worthy of forgiveness at all? I have no mercy.
Speaker 3:I don't, yeah, I don't think that his blindly being in comp that's incompetent. He willingly blocked out what he wanted to block out and until it was it was, it was blind loyalty until it was, until it was unavoidable.
Speaker 3:That's when he confronted it. Too little, too late, man like you're infiltrating this group. He knew what he was doing right and and he just convinced himself that they were the bad guys. It's difficult to talk about that episode at that arc without getting too analogous to what's going on in certain parts of our world, but it was a little scary, I won't lie. It hit home a little bit harder to kind of see this unfurl, and for me cyril is like too many people out there that are just willingly being ignorant and then will be indignant when it happens like oh, no, what?
Speaker 3:no, no, this is not what I wanted, you know, it's just he's so believable I just, he's such a believable character, but I will say I strongly dislike him and ethically I cannot forgive him. I also didn't forgive jamie lannister, so okay, fair enough.
Speaker 1:I, I like the, I like the qualifier there. Anthony, how do you feel about cyril?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's that easy I don't think it's as easy as saying black and white with cyril I really do not think that it's that easy to be like yes, the thing is a lot of. His character is believable, because blind loyalty is something that is, you know, very, you know it's very real and it's a human trait yeah, exactly, it is a human trait.
Speaker 2:The thing that was different about cyril is that there were a lot of people who knew what was happening and they actively turned their eye to it. But the thing is is that there were a lot of people who knew what was happening and they actively turned their eye to it. But the thing is is that cyril was sold something and he believed it. And when he, when his eyes finally opened that they sold him bs, he realized wow, you know, essentially like, what did I do? And that's why he was out there in that crowd. He could have easily just hidden that room, you know, with with the other people, but no, he was out there really witnessing the lie that he was being sold and I felt bad for him because you know he was being strung along by also you, dedra, and I understand your, you know definitely issues and any anger towards dedra, but cyril was definitely somebody who thought he was doing his job. That has always been who cyril has been. You know, ever, ever since, from the, from the beginning of the series. That is always how he's been.
Speaker 2:Of course, he is the portrayal of an antagonistic character, but I like that he exists because he is not a black or a white character. He is somebody that exists within the gray. I don't completely dislike him for that reason, but he does do things that piss me off. Completely dislike him for that reason, but he does do things that piss me off. You know, like, like all all the all caution went to the wind as soon as he saw cassie and I'm like, oh, dude, like the, the sympathy that I felt for you in that moment, is just gone now, my jaw definitely dropped dropped, you know, when he took a blaster bolt to the temple so I want to hop on and you know I I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Rich in the sense that this is a person who had every opportunity to see the truth, but I don't know that that's necessarily true based on his position within the hierarchy of the empire he.
Speaker 3:We only saw him being gaslighted a couple of times. All right, but imagine, okay, he's getting home from work every single day, right. He's with dedra, right, like they're recapping their days and they're talking things over, like we saw a couple of instances of him being blindly loyal. But he was sitting like doing all these things and openly listening to Deirdre gaslight him with no attempt for thought of his own. I don't. As a teacher, it's really hard for me to sit there and be okay with a person who is, I believe to be, negligent. We have a responsibility to understand the world around us and he was negligent in his personal relationship and in his political kind of loyalties relationship and in his political kind of loyalties, like he openly wanted that life right Because his mom had made his life so terrible that he was just so desperate to have this relationship and have good standing that he I think he was willfully ignorant.
Speaker 1:I kind of agree with both of your sentiments and I'm going to give the middle ground opinion here. What I will say about Cyril is that every job that he's had up to this point has been behind a computer. This is his first real field assignment that he is seemingly doing a really good job at and he's getting accolades and he's you know, he's receiving praise from the top. Even Partagas is like well done, cyril. I think that does chemically do something to the endorphin center in your brain that rewires you a little bit. And you're right that he should have realized at this point that they're making stuff up. These rebels aren't actually, you know, as bad as they're made out to be, which I think that he realizes by the time, because a year passes between the last time that we saw him first begin his spycraft on gorman and by the time that we see his character in this gorman episode.
Speaker 1:He's changed. He clearly likes the rebels, he clearly feels closer to them than he does, dedra, and I think that there is even hinted love between him and the daughter of that rebel leader. I forget, I forget their names, but you know like there's that scene where, like, she slaps him and it almost felt intimate, you know, like no, no, no, like he even grabs her arm and stuff, and it's like I think that he had changed sometime between then and there but he hadn't fully believed that the empire would be capable of actual genocide. And I think that because he's been behind the desk and he's believed in order for so long that this was like something inconceivable for him to come up with. So I don't think I I kind of sit in between you guys, like I. I do think that, yes, he should have figured this out long before now, but I don't think he's an irredeemable character and I think that you know, just obviously it's kind of like padme saying there's still good in him.
Speaker 1:There there was there was still good in him.
Speaker 2:There was still good in him even though he was the worst person in the galaxy for like 19 years well, I'm I don't know man like I really do, you know, I I understand the sentiment that he should have realized something. Maybe he should have paid a little bit more attention to the writing on the walls, but I'm definitely not sold on him, like you know. Yeah, he was, you know he was in this relationship with dedra, but she definitely was not sharing anything with him at all.
Speaker 1:She was not sharing that type of she was not sharing that level of stuff to him I. I agree with that, because yeah he. He had no idea what the heck they were doing yeah, exactly like you know.
Speaker 2:Like he he was. He was in the dark and then when he realized that there were ships coming down to mine minerals like he, he went as far as to like choke dedra out to figure out what it was that they were doing so like the fact that he went that far and was like yeah, I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm done with this. This woman and he and he like put physical hands to like figure out what it was that they were doing, because he knew that something terrible was happening.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, come on, like you know that that's I forgot about part and that just makes him I actually had blocked that out. I'm sorry For me, that's inexcusable.
Speaker 1:Okay, sure.
Speaker 3:I forgot. That's another reason why I dislike him. Like that's you, don't? I mean? I'm sorry, that's to me, I can't forgive.
Speaker 2:No, no, I get it, I, I get where you're coming for that. That's a fair. That's like I forgot. Yeah, yeah, no, no, exactly. He goes out.
Speaker 3:It's just and I get it. Look, I also dislike ben solo. I don't buy ben solo's turn. I'm sorry you killed han. There are just some things that are unforgivable for me and I and I just thought that one. See, here's my thing if you're on the fence about cyril, once he chokes dead, you're out. I just feel like that's you know, and like that was real. What was haunting about that was the fear in her eyes, right, like it obviously just you know, excellent job by the actor. But it just really conveyed like what's crazy is she's in charge of this crazy operation and he made her helpless in that moment.
Speaker 3:Right because yeah, because he's because he felt small. He needed to make himself feel bigger and in control, and the way he went about it is uh that's.
Speaker 1:That's an interesting I.
Speaker 2:I hadn't considered that point of view there, so well, my, my question is and you know, I, I get, I get where you're coming from, you know, definitely in that moment, but would it have been bad had he killed her in that moment because your boy, and or was about to sniper? So, like she was, she was on death row, or or she she was pretty much it was close to dying in that moment anyway, because the and or was about the sniper. You know, we, we understand, uh, we, we understand the that's an.
Speaker 1:That's an interesting moral quandary, actually. Yeah, I mean actually. Yeah, I mean, dude, like is it? Is it okay because the hero did it and it would have been bad because the the he saved her life by choking her out?
Speaker 2:it's crazy, he did pull her in. You know in that moment that that was weird. But I mean, you know he, he definitely had that anger, but she, she would have, you know she would have been dead she, she would have been dead. But I'm not saying that, like you know, he did it to save her. I'm just saying it right like you know what's the difference between a villain killing her and a hero killing her. You know?
Speaker 3:well, I mean if you're talking about end result there, but I mean in terms of the character, morality, in terms of the characters. He choked out his fiancee essentially a quasi wife because he realized that he let himself get deluded into living a lie with her and felt small, whereas andor was trying to kill someone who was willfully helping the empire to commit genocide. So I mean like there's a big difference there.
Speaker 2:I think if she dies by andor's hands, it's, I think it's a good thing uh, let me close that gap a little bit, maybe because cyril realized the writing on the wall, you know, and he wanted to find out what it was that was going on. Like you know, I get your gripe, but at the end of the day, you know, in a morality sense it's bad right in a day-to-day sense it is bad, of course, yeah I'll always say that it's bad.
Speaker 2:But the thing is is that, Because you said and you said yourself that Andor was going to kill somebody that was actively helping the Empire, Cyril was confronting somebody who was actively helping the Empire incite violence for their own gain, and he hit that realization, he obviously like that's quick fury right there Because, yeah, he might have felt small in that moment, but the thing is is that he was sold on a lie, and when he when he realized that he was sold out on a lie and that a lot of innocent people were about to get killed, I would be pissed off too.
Speaker 1:So in that moment he actually breaks with the Empire. That's the moment where he stops wanting what the Empire wants, because she tells him that we're going home heroes, and then he realizes that's not what I want, you know, like, this is not what I want, and so it's. It's an interesting. I see both sides of this argument and I think that goes to show just how good the writing of the show is. I think all of us will agree that he's a well-written character and he is morally complex, and the fact that we've been talking about him now for like 20 minutes is a good gauge for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry, but I think In real life I'm very forgiving when discussing characters. I'm essentially Judge Dredd, I am Okay and I'm unforgiving. It's terrible.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I would love to continue this conversation, but we have more Andor to talk about.
Speaker 2:We do, we do.
Speaker 1:Really quick final thoughts on the Gorman front, Specifically how they were capable of showcasing this trap that they you know. Eventually, that led to mass mass genocide you.
Speaker 2:You know, what was crazy about that was that it really did. It gave me even more like world war ii vibes, like it was so well those scenes were so well like constructed and written, that like it really blew my mind that just this, the whole season, the season as a whole, was amazing. But like the fact that I was like, oh my gosh. Like you get to the second part of the season, you're like, oh my gosh, it gets even better. How's that even possible?
Speaker 1:yeah, the moment that you know the they, they stopped chanting and they started singing their national anthem or their, their, their anthem. Whatever we are the goal, my heart sank because you know it's not gonna end well, you know it's just gonna be the worst thing ever. And these poor people who you know are just, they're just trying to live. You know they're trying to be who they've always been. We're very quickly snuffed out rich. What are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 3:episode. I think I said it last time. You know gripping amazing television, but I don't want to do this more than I don't want.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, yeah, we I can't.
Speaker 3:I can't watch this week in week out yeah, no, it just you know, and I watched it like three times or whatever, as I normally do, and I found it harder and harder each time, I'd see, because you knew what was coming, a little bit I see somebody's reaction in the crowd.
Speaker 3:That was a little different. It's just I don't know like it's. It's really well done and, like anthony said, yeah, world war ii vibes. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna be a little bit, possibly more divisive and say that it's reflective of a lot of things I'm seeing around the world currently and maybe that made it much more chilling, like to the point where you know, when everything was going down in California and Los Angeles, I read I'm reading the New York Times in the car and I yell out does he think this is bleep and gore, like this is not Star Wars.
Speaker 3:We know what's happening, like you're not planets away and I'll leave it at that. That's a real reaction I had after seeing the episode and it's something that Star Wars has never made me feel, and kudos to them for doing it. But, moving forward, I want some fun stuff. You know, I want, like some Padawans, to fall into some mischief because they, you know. I want some little kids to get on a ship and accidentally take off into space. I want a little bit more saccharine with my Star Wars.
Speaker 1:Got it. Yeah, no, I hear you. All right, let's jump into the next episode. We spoke, or, rich, you said earlier that you didn't think that the Senate would ever entertain you and I, growing up with the prequels, where the Senate was always just kind of the boring scenes, I will probably have some newfound respect, like going into those scenes just because I know what's capable in the Senate at this point and ultimately, like I felt like what mothma was going through, you know, like over the course of this season, you know, as she's trying to, you know, get people on to her cause, and like she's trying to like, pull more attention to gorman and all that, and people were just, you know, pushing her away, whatever, until until you know this episode where she finally, like you know, breaks with decorum and decides to, you know, tell it like it is.
Speaker 1:You know this is genocide. You know you're all propping up this monster, palpatine, who's going to come for you on the end, and she's entirely right to do so, and she's entirely right in general. And it's such a good scene. The tension in the air, the other senators who give up their time to speak so that she can have this in is so brilliant. And yeah, no man, it's so, it's so good. I would watch a show of, you know, mothma in the Senate. I just feel like it's such a strong maybe not a whole show, but you know, like if, if that was the level of intrigue that we got from the proceedings in the star wars senate, I would love to see more of that. Like I, watched.
Speaker 3:I've watched c-span. When I was younger and weirder, I would totally watch like a c-span s galactic senate hearings. I mean it's nerdy, but I just I did like the the seating of the time. You know like and in you know law 17 bc.
Speaker 3:The precedent was said so that a senior member can see to you know like, and just a little tiny loopholes that they were pulling and how that's kind of stuff and it reminded me of, in some ways, like the filibustering that we have, you know, in the US Senate or in the House of Representatives sometimes when it's like this totally arcane, like weird thing, and they're like yeah, by the way, so we're just going to talk for 27 hours because it's a rule there.
Speaker 1:You know that we're allowed to break.
Speaker 3:So I thought that was like that made it even better for me. And I actually also liked when Mothma was asking Bael if he could vouch for his people and he's like, yeah, of course you can vouch for them. And she's like do you know them? And he's like, no, of course I can't, I don't know them, I can't know them. And I thought that was top-notch, like I I can vouch for them as much as I can, but I have to protect myself and there's no way I can actually know that these are people you can trust which is why luthan was so important in that moment, because he realized that, you know, bale's team was compromised yeah anthony, what are your thoughts on this episode?
Speaker 2:I thought it was really cool. I I liked mon mothma's speech. I would also kind of agree that we could get, like you know, I know you said like a whole series, but maybe like a limited series of mon mothma, maybe in the moment where she kind of I mean it might have been for a while but like disillusioned with whatever the empire was selling, and her introduction to luthan, that'd be cool yeah, that would be cool because we didn't actually see, like how they were first introduced.
Speaker 1:So that's, that's, that would be pretty neat. What do we think of the extraction with cassian? You know, leading up to that point, we have the empire, like isb, specifically going crazy, trying to like shut her down, and they finally do shut her down.
Speaker 1:But you know, she, she said what she needed to say yeah I love that so much because that speech goes basically viral and you know everyone in the galaxy hears it. And then you have this race for cassian to get her and her aid to this meeting point somewhere else in the galaxy. And I don't know if you guys know I might have brought it up on a previous show. There's kind of like a secret episode after this point that you can watch If you decide to jump onto Star Wars Rebels at any point. You can watch Season 3, episode 18, secret Cargo, and it's the follow-up to what happens in the events of this episode.
Speaker 1:So we have mon mothma, who just gave her speech and just got away from the empire being shipped over to the rebellion and the rebels are gearing her up to speak to the disparate rebel groups and that's the speech that she gives that like starts the rebel alliance, like fully, because at this point they haven't really formed that unique alliance even though they're all kind of over the galaxy. So this episode with mothma giving that speech leads pretty closely into what happens in the rebels episode. Secret cargo, season 3, episode 18. Not as closely as the. The final episode of andor, season 2, leans into rogue one, but the connections are definitely there and you will definitely experience more about what's happening in the galaxy and how the rebels came together if you watch those two episodes back to back right, right now.
Speaker 2:That's cool, I like.
Speaker 1:I like when they do connections like that yeah and yeah, let's jump into the, the final three episodes, because they all kind of happened really quickly. Luthan is caught. Yeah, what do we think of the?
Speaker 2:the daedra and luthan scene as soon as she went in, like I knew it, I was like, yeah, I mean, but he, he knew it. He also knew, he knew that that time was coming and he felt it in that moment he had no reservations about him surviving the war.
Speaker 1:He knew that he was in too deep, he had too many holes in the galaxy, basically too many people that he was spying on for it not to fall back on him. Eventually he was kind of like too big of a pawn not to topple and, yeah, we finally get the name drop of a death star. You know, like lonnie finds out that this energy program that the emperor has been running for a couple years isn't actually an energy program. He's building a super weapon, and they don't know what the super weapon is capable of. They just know it's big and bad and he's been working on it for years. What did we think of lani's final moments?
Speaker 2:that was kind of crazy, because it really shows how similar luthen and andor are. Like they'll, uh, sever some loose ends. Man and Lonnie was was. He was a loose end. I had a feeling that that was going to be his fate.
Speaker 1:Rich, what do you think of Lonnie's end?
Speaker 3:yeah, I kind of I kind of always had a feeling that it wasn't going to end well for him. He tried showing a backbone at some point, but it was kind of too late and he was kind of in too deep. I don't trust a man with a mustache like that to begin with. So, as our listeners may not know, but I am mustache-less. I refuse to wear to sport a mustache as it calls my character into question. And I felt the same way about Lonnie.
Speaker 1:No, but I Hold on, hold on. We have to also express to the audience that the other two of us do have mustaches. What does that say about our characters, rich, you've got to expand on that a little bit.
Speaker 3:You guys do have beards. I do think that means you guys are big Rhydonium hounds like huge.
Speaker 1:Just always huffing.
Speaker 3:Rhydonium, just all the time. Rhydonium hounds like huge, just always huffing Rhydonium just all the time.
Speaker 1:Right Rhydonium huffers.
Speaker 2:Save the dream.
Speaker 3:I just I don't think I liked Lonnie. I think I kind of expected this to happen, right. I mean, this is kind of what eventually has to happen to spies, right.
Speaker 1:They're going to be burned eventually.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know I mean, and you kind of get into you, kind of he signed up for it right.
Speaker 1:Essentially, I think we wanted him to be to get free. You know, like, as we're watching, you're just like, oh yeah, he's got a family, he's got, you know he's got a wife and a kid. And you see that, like you haven't, you haven't. You know, like that, like calmness, like you know, hit him as he like gets some sense of relief in that moment. And then the next we know is you know he's dead, yeah, and then, pretty much immediately after that, the dominoes start falling. Deidre comes to his office space and it's such a fantastic scene, those two characters having never interacted before. Yeah, I love that. And she asks him like are all of these items legit? Like are these actual things? And he goes there's only two, two items of questionable provenance, and he's talking about himself and her. You know, like he's that's what he's talking about is just like I'm not really nameduthen Rail and you're not really here to. You know, look at my artifacts. You know, like it's so good.
Speaker 2:Bro, when she pulled out that Starpath unit I was like yeah, it's just like. I was like man, not the callback to season one.
Speaker 1:I would have if I was Luthen and I wanted to play that off a little bit, a little more. I would have been like vintage. The empire has only been around for 19 years. Everything else in this place is like thousands of years old.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So Luthen stabs himself with that Nautilin bleeder, which might not even be real. I think that's what got to me at the end of the episode. I was like is the Nautilin bleeder real? I need to know. Well, it made him bleed, all right, but is he noddling? I don't think so. What did we think of kleia's arc in these last episodes? Because she's always been this character in the background that has shown a little bit more gumption as the show's going on. What? What are our thoughts?
Speaker 3:I wish the series was longer. I don't love exposition dumps almost, or the need for flashback. I got, like Naruto, ptsd from flashback episodes. So I understand that they had to do it right, because they obviously started the series while we already have them in a relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we don't understand the relationship, so they kind of have to explain it a know and I, I get it, I mean it, it's believable.
Speaker 3:It gives us a reason why luthan left. Although he definitely doesn't, although he does treat her like a daughter, he also doesn't treat her like a daughter, right, like I would probably not put my son in some of the perilous situations and ask him if he's ready to to set off a bridge and kill people on naboo. It seemed like that. I think that was naboo. It felt like naboo it was.
Speaker 1:It was, uh, confirmed to be naboo, I, I, and it makes sense because palpatine is from naboo, so he went into a terrorist attack in his homeland.
Speaker 2:So I mean that that kleia was his daughter when it was convenient yeah, when it was convenient. I like that yeah, that was his line. Oh yeah, something that we I mean we can, we can, uh, let's. Let's finish this up here, but something that we forgot to mention was andor had pulled from gorman a k2so yes, yeah, so that's.
Speaker 1:That's one of the. The better things about this last arc is that the vibes are a little bit different, and I think that's specifically to do with the fact that everyone's now on yavin and they now have another team member. That adds a lot of levity to the show. And and I'm glad that K-2SO wasn't a thing for the entirety of the series or like the majority of the series, I mean Just because I would have loved him. I would have loved him from the first episode, but I like seeing Andor exist before K-2SO, because now that I know that with K-22so he almost seems like a more complete person, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Like there was something missing from him. Yeah, he was definitely missing, something like before k2so and or was b2emo like he was being too yeah he definitely replaced b2emo way too quickly.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that b2emo got a final happy moment at the end there, you know he's, he's with his friends and he's with bix and yeah, yeah, which his daughter and all that that. That last moment was kind of crazy too yeah and I feel like we're skipping a whole bunch, but we're coming up on like a minute or an hour and 20 and so I'm just trying to like. All the best scenes are just piling up in my head right now. Well, really a lot like.
Speaker 2:I mean, we covered a lot of it. You know, luthan, he stabs himself and kleia pretty much takes it upon herself to, you know, kill him while he's in the hospital because you know she didn't want him, like there was no way that she was going to be able to extract them. And so you know, that's something that he would have wanted, because he didn't want to be captured. And so she, she took it upon herself to do that and and or comes in for one last extraction, which is to get clea out of coruscant, which initially she didn't want to yeah, let's talk a little bit about kleia and yavin and like why she's so apprehensive to make that trip to yavin.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts on that? Like, why was she so almost like haughty when it comes to being taken to yavin? How did you interpret that?
Speaker 2:well, I know that that side wasn't too partial with luthan I guess because he still kind of had a little bit of like an extremist like type of mentality, not as bad as saw, but he was almost like his own, like little you know, I guess rebel outfit, that didn't yeah, he was a rebel cell that didn't actually become part of the Alliance.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. Same thing with Saw and Saw and Luthan, weren't you know they weren't really buddy-buddies? There was this, I guess kind of you know, I guess respect, but it was still like you know, you're crazy, you know, like Luthan was like yeah, this guy's crazy, and like he realized that rich.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts on clay's apprehension to yavin lifestyle?
Speaker 3:I don't think that she is. That's not her world, that's not her universe. Living comfortably in one place with people and being her real self without Luthan around, I think, is just something that she just can't. She's not been her real self with anyone but him, and even then she seemed guarded, in some ways right, because the cause was the most important thing. The cause was the most important thing so.
Speaker 3:I don't think that she could just now fall into this idea that there's this whole group and that she's part of this group. They were catalysts. They're not part of this. They weren't conformists. They weren't conformists.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a good point. What I found was interesting was that everyone kept saying, like Cassian and Clea both heavily believed that the rebels on Yavin wouldn't exist had Luthan not been who he was. And it almost makes me wonder, like, where did the money go, when you know they stole it off of aldani? What happened after? You know, cassian left yavin earlier in this season and left those that like crazy rebel cell to die there. Did he get that message to luthan to say, like hey, this is actually a pretty good place for a base? And you know like, because like there's a lot of coincidences and stuff where Luthan's kind of at the center of everything, like he's an axis, you know like, is he responsible for the formation of the rebel base on Yavin? I'm curious about that and I don't think that we have an answer.
Speaker 2:I like that you brought it here because something that kind of made me think about how the setup of the show. Remember, you know, I was saying originally that andor was supposed to be more seasons. I think they were looking at five seasons and so maybe that's what they were like looking to explore, maybe to expand a little bit more on those like year gaps but yeah I guess they settled for something a little bit more condensed, which I mean even with it being condensed, we got something that was really good.
Speaker 2:But I mean exactly and like another reason why I'm glad you say that, another thing that was never resolved, that was brought in the first season of andor, his sister, what happened there?
Speaker 1:so I I don't think that was ever going to be resolved, just based on comments from tony gilroy. He's basically said that, like this is just a pipe dream that andor's always had. Basically I don't think those are his words exactly, but it's it's that that drive is what ultimately first gets him involved in everything. Basically Right.
Speaker 2:But it was kind of like never addressed again, though it was just like literally the first episode. That was it.
Speaker 1:And they actually do show the sister in the final episode, but it's almost like a symbolic viewing of the sister, so I don't know. She may still be out there somewhere, but I think let's bring this podcast to a close. Guys. Final thoughts rich did. Why do you hate this show?
Speaker 3:so much I hate it because it doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. I don't get to see ewoks dancing and you there's not enough using the helmets of presumably decapitated stormtroopers to make beautiful, beautiful music with ghosts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, I. You know star wars is not supposed to make me think the adult things most of the time, right, and I know that obviously it's made for fantastic television. It's definitely the best star wars tv show that's out there. You know all respect to obi-wan and I know obi-wan, season two is going to be even better. It's going to be even better than book of boba fed baby. Uh, it's going to focus on one character maybe, and then I'm not it already was better than book of boba fed.
Speaker 3:To be yeah, to be fair I mean, but at the same time I don't, like I'm I'm not gonna my son and I aren't gonna watch this, not yet, right. It's? Yeah, it's too adult and it's the first for me kind of gatekeepy thing. Look, there's there's three of us here, totaling probably almost 100 years of age. But Star Wars is for kids, right. It's that hope and it's that beautiful hope in the galaxy. It's the hope and believing in people and that's not what Andor's about and it's okay and it belongs and it needs to be there, right? But it doesn't scream Star Wars to me and I think that's what makes it so good all right, a little twist there, anthony.
Speaker 1:Final thoughts the worst.
Speaker 2:no, no, I actually I agree with rich and I'm gonna be honest with you. Like I really do believe that endor is the best star wars tv show and that's even with the existence of the Mandalorian. Like, I love the Mandalorian, but the Mandalorian is a lot of fan service. This is not fan service at all. I mean, I don't know if you know the amount of people that I've sung the praises of Andor to and they're like, nah, it's kind of boring. I'm like dude, like Did you sing it?
Speaker 1:did you sing it like we are the goal? Yes, of?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, you know I was standing on a statue and everything you know, just waving a flag, you know?
Speaker 2:and but yeah, no, it's. It is easily my favorite Star Wars TV show. It just blew my mind the way that it connected so much and, even though that there's still stuff that was not explained, it did a lot, man, and I'm proud to say that a show that I never asked for became a show that I'm asking more of, that I want more of, and that I am going to be too emo that this is over.
Speaker 1:This is a top five MCU project for me. I no, it's top tier Star Wars Like, even if you compare it to the films you've never watched, like hypothetically you've never watched the original trilogy, prequels, sequels, whatever you want. You watch the best of the best, empire strikes back for the first time and then you watch, say, episodes eight and nine of andor. Pound for pound, andor is the stronger technically thing. So I I do believe that those two hours of andor are the strongest star wars that we've ever received. Whether it's like star wars, star wars is up for debate and I do hold the films up to a higher level just because of you know, like what they represent and everything. But I'm just, you know, like if, if we're taking nostalgia and we're taking you know the, the years and production quality that you know existed at the times that they were produced in, I do think Andor is probably the strongest thing that we've ever received and that's good. More of that, you know it doesn't have to be you know this maturity level, it doesn't have to be TVMA, it doesn't have to be extremely dark or anything like that. But if we can get this quality of writing in another star wars project down the line I'd be, I'd be a happy camper and the the future would look bright for star wars.
Speaker 1:So that's that's how I feel, and if you don't like it, you can go away. Yeah, no, I really like, I really like android guys. Yeah, thanks so much for listening to us here for our 125th episode of Project Geekology. My name is Dakota again, and we're joined as always with Anthony and Rich, and we had a great time talking about the final two episodes of Andor. There's not going to be a normal episode next week. I'm going to be away, but we're going to be picking back up the following week with something hopefully very good to be determined.
Speaker 2:Either is it, you know, keep an eye out for, you know, maybe an update on on twitter, or, uh, you know, just keep an eye out for an episode drop keep an eye out to the sky, you might see.
Speaker 1:You might see like a red cape. We're dropping a vine.
Speaker 3:We'll be dropping a vine on Wednesday at 4.35. So just tune into Vine. Do it for the gram guys.
Speaker 1:You guys want to do Superman Sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm down for that man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's do the new Superman movie that's coming out. It should be coming out next week. We will cover it the following week.
Speaker 2:Superman.
Speaker 1:Superman next week. We will cover it the following week Super Ming, super Ming for our next episode. You will believe a man can fly Right on him. Bye. Guys, bye.
