Project Geekology
Embark on an epic journey with Anthony and Dakota as they delve into the vast realms of geek culture, from cherished classics to cutting-edge creations. Join us for an exhilarating adventure of exploration and nostalgia, as we unearth hidden gems and reminisce about the moments that have shaped us. Welcome to the ultimate celebration of all things geeky!
Project Geekology
The Rings of Power - Season 2, Part 2
What if the mysterious stranger you've been speculating about turns out to be someone legendary? Join us as we unravel the exhilarating twists of "The Rings of Power" Season 2. With Dakota and Anthony at the helm, and our returning guest Rich, we explore the series' final episodes, celebrating the jaw-dropping reveal of Gandalf's identity. Rich’s humorous reflection on his own theories adds a delightful twist as we also ponder the enigmatic disappearance of Sauron, as Annatar shows up, leaving us eager for what's to come.
Our conversation doesn't stop at Middle-earth. We shift gears to a whirlwind of entertainment highlights, including the astonishing $765 million contract of Juan Soto with the Mets and a cozy review of the TV show "Skeleton Crew." We navigate the expansive universes of Star Wars and Avatar, contrasting the leaks about the third Avatar series with the veil of secrecy surrounding the Aang movie. Our speculation about the narrative arc of "The Rings of Power" keeps the discussion lively, as we anticipate the forging of the human rings and their impact on the storyline.
Exploring the nuanced layers of storytelling, we dive into the intricacies of leadership and morality in these epic tales. Discussions about the political turmoil in Numenor and the transformative journey of King Durin offer rich insights into character development. We scrutinize battle tactics, unmask hidden influences of Sauron, and savor the emotional threads woven through Gandalf's journey and the reunion of characters like Isildur and his sister. Stay connected with us on social media, where the conversation continues and new adventures await!
Twitter handles:
Project Geekology: https://twitter.com/pgeekology
Anthony's Twitter: https://twitter.com/odysseyswow
Dakota's Twitter: https://twitter.com/geekritique_dak
Instagram:
https://instagram.com/projectgeekology?igshid=1v0sits7ipq9y
YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@projectgeekology
Geekritique (Dakota):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBwciIqOoHwIx_uXtYTSEbA
Twitch (Anthony):
https://www.twitch.tv/odysseywow
Friends, romans, countrymen, lend me your ear For the 103rd episode of Project Ecology. We're discussing not Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare. We're discussing the last four episodes of the Rings of Power. I have no idea why I started it that way. It was just in my head. So here we go. We're going to keep rolling with it. My name is Dakota, I'm one half of your host, I'm joined as always with, and we have a special guest who has been a special guest for a couple episodes. At this point, rich say hi. Good to see you.
Speaker 3:I'd just like to know that for the rest of the episode, my name is Rich Ard. That's the name that I earned, all right, and I'm a proud Uruk.
Speaker 2:And I'm a proud Uruk Is that Richard, the. Ork Uruk.
Speaker 1:We got to get it straight that's the name he earned, Anthony.
Speaker 2:Come on, I don't want Rich to reach through the screen and strangle me.
Speaker 1:Yes, because even though you're listening to us here on an audio podcast, we do look at each other through a screen while we talk to each other. So we have a lot to talk about today the final four episodes of the second season of the Rings of Power. We finally have made it to the end, at least of the second season. I think I can say for each and every one of us that we are excited for what happens next. We are excited for what happens next, but today is going to be a discussion of strictly those four episodes, with an overview of the entire season, seasons plus so far, and I personally enjoyed it a lot, anthony, off the cuff, what did you think?
Speaker 2:I thought it was fantastic. I feel like all the time that we spent watching both seasons really paid off by the end.
Speaker 1:And Rich, I know you've watched this a couple times. At this point, how do you feel having made it through this critical analysis, not only just with the podcast, but finally making it to these four episodes?
Speaker 3:I'm super excited to be able to discuss it with you guys. Finally, I don't have to keep anything safe, I don't have to keep anything secret. I can just come out here and just talk about how many booms I'm giving this show overall and you know just kind of that's what we do. You know we just we bring the boom here. You know the Kazakh do.
Speaker 1:We bring the Kazakh boom. Yeah, I like that. My wife just looked over me and just like, like like gasped inaudibly, like she just put her hand to her her face and just like I cannot believe you said that um, anyway, I may have been planning that all day long, by the way, so nice.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we we have. We have a lot to cover. Um, I think, before we touch on anything, I think we we deserve to talk about the grand elf in the room, gandalf. Anthony, you and I knew from the beginning this had to be Gandalf. How do you feel, do you feel justified, that the stranger is now going by his true and rightful name, his earned name, like Richard the Uruk over here, like Richard?
Speaker 2:the Uruk over here. It's so funny because you and I have been saying this what I think since the first four episodes of season one that we felt like that's who he was. So like getting that confirmation it was gratifying. It was. It was like dude, like I felt like I knew from the beginning, but like actually hearing it was like yeah, like like that is absolutely who he is, and then seeing that like classic gandalf the gray staff.
Speaker 1:I think I would have flipped my antique coffee table if it was just like nice to meet you, saruman, and I would have been so upset I would have been like no rich was really trying to throw us off the scent by saying it was radagast. Yeah, I could have been you know there was no smoke where there was fire in that one, but I didn't know what to do anymore.
Speaker 3:I mean, I feel the same as you guys. I thought it. You know, I right away kind of thought it was gandalf, right, like very right, yeah I thought it was actually I won't lie to you now that I can kind of speak openly about it.
Speaker 3:At the end of season one we find out who Sauron is, you know, or that Halbron is Sauron, right. And I was a little frustrated at the end of season one because I was like you're going to make me wait, come on, like this is so obvious. And you know, I hadn't liked the idea that we had two guys, that we didn't know who they were. And then I was like at least it's gonna be resolved. And when I got to the end of episode, that's why, that's why I said that season one frustrated me so much. Also, like later, once I know it's gandalf and I can kind of be comfortable and I'm not thinking it might be saruman or like one of the other blue wizards, uh, right right right you know, I was, I enjoy it so much more.
Speaker 3:But like, while I'm waiting and thinking it might be saruman, it just kind of I was like then how is he gonna go and like become a good guy and then turn he and I don't know? There were so many questions and like wrapped up in it that once I knew I just enjoyed it so much more and then in this season, sauron just kind of disappears halfway through and this guy, annatar, shows up.
Speaker 1:And who the heck is Annatar? I have no idea. We're gonna talk all about that later. Um, but uh, anthony, before we get into, uh, any of our you know any more of our discussion, what have you been up to?
Speaker 2:well, last week I had told you that marvel rivals was dropping, so I've been playing a bit of that yeah, tell me about it.
Speaker 1:I I've heard. Uh, to be honest, I've been off the internet so I've heard nothing, but please tell me it's.
Speaker 2:It's been pretty fun. They they released. So, on top of the characters that they had throughout the beta, they released a couple other characters like there's like cloak and dagger, there's moon knight, uh, there's captain america, there's there's several others, and they have a bunch that like have already been leaked that they're planning to put into the game. And I've been like really I've been really having fun. I've played a lot of cloak and dagger that they're like support, slash, damage they. Um, that balance kind of reminds me a little bit of of moira from overwatch. Moira is a support character, but she also does like a lot of damage too. So like having that ability to kind of like swap between cloak and dagger and they have their various abilities.
Speaker 2:I've also played a lot of moon knight. Moon knight is pretty op right now and that that's because like just like, really like some of his abilities. And then there's the fact that a lot of these characters they have like these team ups. So if you play certain characters together, they get like buffs and stuff. So it is really, it really is like a good idea to like, really pay attention to like who your team is playing and trying to kind of like fit in with those characters so that you can kind of synchronize like a lot better. Like cloak and dagger and moon knight go together and the cloak and dagger kind of gives moon knight this like kind of like an invisibility buff where he can go invisible, invisible for a little bit so cloak and dagger, um, based on whatever thing that you're saying is kind of like ice climbers and, uh, super smash bros well I'm just messing with you.
Speaker 1:Um, I hate the ice climbers, but yeah, I do love cloak and dagger, and I have not played marvel rival, so I'm trying to like come. I've come up with a parallel in my head you should.
Speaker 2:You should definitely check it out. I mean I I know that you like overwatch. I mean there's hawkeye in there, so I mean he, he might and hawkeye hawkeye is a little bit on on the op side too and now he may they get rid of his scattershot so, so they may you know, so you may actually enjoy him, because you know that'll give your hanzo fix yeah, nerf this right, cool man and so, oh yeah, and as of recording this friday, I'm prepping to, or I'm gonna go see war the rohirrim.
Speaker 2:I I know that uh rich had said that he's planning on going to see that on friday. Also, I'm pretty stoked. Uh, we, we had already. I don't know if we had actually announced it on podcast. We'll probably reiterate it at the end of this episode, but after after this episode drops, our next episode will be on war the rohirrim, and rich is more than welcome to join us for the uh continued lord of the rings train that we've been on yes, we're excited to see what the peter jackson side of the lord of the rings franchise holds, because that's like being brought back into this movie.
Speaker 1:Um, and that's canon to those films that the peter jackson you know. Sextology, whatever you call it, yeah I don't know um yeah so I I do not have my tickets yet, but I'm excited to jump into that. I didn't realize how limited the screening of it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I didn't realize that either, but so far most of the theaters around me are showing it, so I have a pretty good selection.
Speaker 1:I have a pretty good selection. My local theater, alamo Drafthouse, is showing the extended editions, on separate days, of the original Lord of the Rings trilogy, but not War of the Rahirams. So I have to get out of my comfort zone a little bit and go to a theater that I don't usually frequent for that. But that's fine. It's okay. There's plenty of showings in my area, so don't worry, that's all good.
Speaker 2:Oh, and we also had you. You had also brought up last week skeleton crew, so I actually finally got to sit down. I haven't watched the third episode yet, but I did watch those first two episodes and I am glad to say that I'm enjoying it. So far, I actually do like it.
Speaker 1:Rich, have you been catching up with Skeleton Crew at all?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean so fantastic.
Speaker 2:It's fun.
Speaker 3:I think it motivated me to do something a little crazy. I can share it on this podcast, because there's no chance my wife listens Excellent. Essentially, I'm also slightly motivated I'm sorry to take this slight detour by Steve Cohen, the Mets owner, deciding that he was a boss and spending tons of money. I decided to go ahead and get my wife the Holy Grail the Lego Millennium Falcon.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay, it's a good thing. I do not know your wife, because I would be texting her immediately about that, you know, just but no that's really awesome that's really cool, rich.
Speaker 1:The mets made a. A pretty seismic move was in the past couple days. How do you feel juan soto, former yankee, went to the world series, was fantastic star player. Uh was up for what was it? A 10-year contract with the yankees for like 500, 500 mil or something like that. What was the uh feeling that you felt? Uh, being a mets, a mets fan, uh, and knowing that my wife's looking at me she's a yankees fan, she's, she's giving, she's giving me the stank eye. How do you feel having Juan Soto on the team there?
Speaker 3:are so many emotions? The Mets team obviously. So many emotions, I mean just first of all, I feel like somebody who bought Apple early, because I bought a 40-game season plan, 40-game half-season plan for the weekends. This is why I'm coaching now, now, so I can literally pay for those seats. I I thought this year something said to me lockdown seats. I don't think it's going to be as easy to get seats. Next year I think you're going to pay more money. And now I've guaranteed myself opening day. I'm going to sell my yankee tickets because angry yankee fans are going to go to Boo Soto at the stadium and I don't want to see Yankee jerseys in my stadium. And then I'm going to get playoff tickets. I'm going to go to one game with my family, sell the other game for an absurd amount of money, because I'll be getting them at face value and not the stupid new pricing system they have.
Speaker 1:Hold on. Are you planning to sell your subway tickets?
Speaker 3:Oh, I won't. No, no, no. I want to be clear. I have only attended one Met Yankee game ever at Citi Field. The feeling of being surrounded by Yankee jerseys in my home is something that I will not tolerate and I will not subject my son to seeing that.
Speaker 2:All right, so rich do you have the answer to, to the question that everybody has been asking who let the mets out man?
Speaker 3:I, steve cohen, let the mets out. I, this guy, is just willing to spend all of his money and I, uh, I honestly love him for it.
Speaker 2:I and anger a bunch of yankee fans you know it, just it I.
Speaker 3:I look it's obviously a ridiculous contract. I think it's way too much money for any player. Um, I have a deep fear that the mets luck is that he's going to like twist his ankle in the middle of the season and never be the same again oh man, yeah, yeah, it's, you know, yeah but I think what it says, what it does for the metsets, is that it makes it makes it a now it's an attractive landing spot, more attractive than it's ever been before.
Speaker 3:You know, it's like they're going for it, they're trying to build something. I might want to go there and that's something we haven't had in my lifetime.
Speaker 1:I like it. I like it. Um, cool man. Yeah, I like it. I like it. Cool man, yeah. So, Anthony, I don't know the exact numbers, but Juan Soto was contracted onto the Mets for something like $700 plus million over the course of 15 years. Oh my, it's a crazy contract.
Speaker 2:That's crazy.
Speaker 3:How old is he? Well, 26 years old. So it's $765 for 15 years. But after the first five years, basically, there's an opt option where his the mets he can opt out if the mets don't increase his salary for the last 10 years of the contract by 4 million a year. So that similarly happened to Garrett Cole this year, where the team declined to opt out of the contract essentially, or declined that raise and Garrett Cole could have left the Yankees, but he chose to just not take the raise and stay with the team.
Speaker 2:That's a crazy contract. That's pretty much like the entirety of like the rest of his time as a pro player. He gets a that's.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's the goal. Yeah, he gets a seat four premium seats a year.
Speaker 3:His family has a personal suite all year. The yankees apparently would not budge on the personal family suite. So, uh, you know really, yeah, that was um a sticking point, that's so strange.
Speaker 1:A slight sticking point, that's so strange. Okay, well, whatever, uh, I'm, you know if, if that was a big, I guess, sign-on bonus, uh to be to become a met, I'm, I'm happy for him the mets have been let out man here the mets have been let out cool.
Speaker 1:Uh, as far as what I've been up to, not a whole lot. Again, I've been watching Skeleton Crew. I watched episode 3. Fantastic, I will say it's slowed down a little bit now that they've met the Jude Law's character.
Speaker 1:I don't want to get too much into spoilers here, but it's a very cozy show, if that makes any sense. It's just something roll up with, you know, like a hot chocolate and just kind of just, you know, be a kid for 30 minutes. It's. It's a really fun show. Some really interesting alien characters. That's that's like my biggest, that's my biggest uh, takeaway is that, like, some of the alien characters are just so creative, especially in this, this, uh, third episode, um, there's a character that looks like an owl and it's just I, I love, I love the way that they. It's one of those things like I can't tell if it's like cgi or practical or just a mix of both, and it's it's fantastically done and it that that kind of wonder keeps me going for the entire episode. So it's I, I like, I like that, that kind of stuff, uh, a whole lot.
Speaker 2:Um, on, a star wars is becoming like dnd.
Speaker 1:They're just adding more and more different types of species, like every year oh, yeah, I mean, star wars has been doing that for from you know, the beginning really, but uh, yeah, it has become very dnd-esque in in that sense. So, yeah, I, I agree, uh, creatively, I've been hard at work writing my scripts for the avatar timeline. I, I know I've been talking about this for months, but this is, you know, it means a lot to me to get this right the first time. So I'm trying to do my best, uh, over the course of, you know, weeks and months. But I'm excited about that.
Speaker 1:And there's been a lot of I don't want to get into like crazy details about this because I know most of the audience doesn't care but there's been a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of leaks in regards to the, the third avatar series. If you're looking for it, like if you're in that that bubble, you, you will know all about it. Like, the avatar is named, the. The premise of the series is kind of explored, uh, the setup for how the series takes shape is is totally detailed. Um, and I feel bad for avatar studios because, like, clearly this wasn't meant to get out this way, but there's concept art out, there's, you know, names of characters. There's, um, like ages and, uh, potential I don't want to say villains, but like mysteries, like we already kind of know the big mysteries of of this series, um, at least for the first season.
Speaker 1:So I'm really floored by how much has come out about this show that is coming out in a couple of years, but we have absolutely zero information about the Avatar Aang movie. That's coming out in a single year. It's coming out next January, not this coming January, but next January. We have no idea even what the finished title for the film is. We have no idea what the setting or the story is for that, but we know almost everything there is to possibly tease about the show, like the third Avatar series that's coming out after that movie. So just crazy.
Speaker 2:That's crazy yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't want to talk too much about like spoilers on that, because, yeah, spoilers.
Speaker 2:Sounds good man.
Speaker 1:Guys, should we explore some of the powers that these rings hold? I think we should. Yeah, so in the lead up to I think it was the second episode that we recorded about the rings of power that we recorded about the rings of power, I had a little prediction about where I thought the general guideline of the multi-season arc was gonna roll out. So the first season we saw the, the forging of the elven rings. I I posited that the second season would be the forging of the dwarven rings, the seven dwarf rings, and the third season would be the forging of the third or the nine human rings. I was a little bit off there. It seems as though the, the rings are already forged by the. The human rings, that, that is, are already forged by the time that this season concludes, but none of them have been distributed to the human rulers at this point right, but you still tracked that it was like elves, dwarves and inhumans.
Speaker 1:It's just off a season, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's still that way yeah, I'm excited to see how and when sauron decides he needs to, uh, make a final ring for himself. He's clearly not allowed in aregion anymore, especially now that aregion is destroyed, um, uh, so we're gonna have to see, um, when and if he decides. You know why don't I just forge it in this really hot volcano over there in the southlands?
Speaker 3:um, we have. Like the thing is, if I you know, I'm trying to think of the men or the kings, right, and if I remember correctly, isn't Elendil supposed to be the king of Gondor at some point?
Speaker 1:You're talking about Isildur's father.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't recall off the top of my head but.
Speaker 1:I thought he was a leader, or I thought he was from a race of kings within Numenor, but not within the main part of Numenor, but the western side of Numenor, or something like that I might be off.
Speaker 3:I'm just trying to. There's a part of me that feels like he's a king of Gondor at some point, and we haven't seen anything of Gondor. We don't know what state Rohan is. We have not met any of the rulers. So I know technically the forging happened in season two, but I feel like there's got to be a lot of world building that we don't. We don't even know one, I mean, other than, I guess, elendil. Right, we don't know anybody who would possibly get rings really of men, and he, to my knowledge, is not one of the nine.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think what's fascinating is we only ever see one Dwarven king.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was actually about to say that. And there's what seven? Right, there's seven Dwarven kings, yeah. Right and we only really see one at play.
Speaker 2:I think they tease at the end of the season that the other Dwarven nations have already paid tribute to durin and are expecting their returns which I'm assuming means they are expecting a ring well, and it also sounds like there's probably going to be a bit of a power struggle, because, uh, durin's brother kind of makes it seems like he wants to make a play for the throne too yeah, there's a.
Speaker 1:There's a lot that needs to happen in season three and four because we, first of all, we've never even met durin's brother, so I have no idea what, what this, even like that, that line was such a throwaway like oh, by the way, maybe you're not the king that's why.
Speaker 2:That's why I just feel like, I feel like eight episode seasons is just not enough, man.
Speaker 1:I find this funny because each episode the minimum length for an episode in a season is 62 minutes I was like I could not believe how long each episode was, because altogether we probably got like what 10, 11 hours worth of like footage.
Speaker 2:I mean that's plenty of time well, well, I mean, but the thing is, is that, like I mean, remember back in the day, like you know, we had we there was a lot of shows that were like what? Maybe about 45 minutes, and you would get like 26 episodes now like 45 minutes. Yet that's like about 15 minutes shy of like what we got, but still that's close enough. I'm not saying to give me a whole 20 episode season, but like you know, it was 26 and then the standard dropped down to like 15, 16, then we went down to 13, then we went down to 10, then now we're down to 8. What's gonna be now next five?
Speaker 1:well, well, some, some shows are definitely like in the six episode range. Like a couple of the marvel shows have been six episodes and it's just it's very clear like these were meant to be movies and we're just cut down to size right, and and a lot of them are like series.
Speaker 2:This is a full-blown series, where I mean dude, game of Thrones. We had 10 episode seasons, and then which seasons are the ones? That really started to suffer was when they started trying to cut them down.
Speaker 1:I agree, I don't disagree and I will say, while I don't necessarily think that they need more episodes, I am happy that they aren't time constrained per episode, because a lot of shows, um, I think of like lucasfilm, it seems as though even their 45-minute shows, like Mandalorian Book of Boba Fett, ahsoka, that kind of show, twice or so per season they'd have an episode that's like 25 minutes and it's like how did this happen?
Speaker 2:How do you budget a?
Speaker 1:show like this, and consistently every season. We don't have this with Rings of power in that, in that same respect, because each episode is almost like a mini movie and, and I think that the last two episodes were like the longest they were in the 70 minutes, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:It was really, it was really impressive. I mean, I, I, I do think that there is so much to tolkien's lore that you can expand it to potentially, you know, like, well, I mean, that's why they have five seasons planned, I guess, right, but, um, you're, you're right rich. Going back to what you were saying, we don't know about any of the great, uh, human races on middle earth because numenor has been, you know, taken out of the equation for probably what?
Speaker 1:a thousand years the entirety of the second age. So we don't have anything gondor, we don't have anything rohan, we don't have any, any humans outside of, like the scattered villages of the southlands yeah and those were loyal to, to, to mordor and Sauron, or before Mordor they were loyal to Sauron. So we don't know what the other races of men look like on Middle-earth at this point, because pretty much we've been following the Highmen, the Highmen.
Speaker 3:The Dunedain.
Speaker 1:The Dunedain, the people of numenor, who live a little bit longer than the normal humans, but, you know, not as long as elves.
Speaker 2:So you're right, we we need to see more of anything regarding humans outside of the southlands, basically well, you know, hopefully next season we start to see a lot more of that and you know, hopefully they we start to see, because I I highly doubt that next season is going to show all nine rings distributed. But you know, we still like, we still need to see more of the dwarves and then those rings being distributed out to the dwarves, unless they already are, and we just didn't see it so there are a couple jumps throughout the the show that I feel like happen out of nowhere and it's really hard to tell how much time is actually passing.
Speaker 1:So in the beginning of the first season the elves go to the dwarves to request that they help them build a new forge for Celebrimbor.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In the time that the show occurs in. It feels like it's been maybe a couple months maybe, but clearly, based on the you know like, the forge is completely finished by the time the second season starts. We don't really get all of that time jump, but it's probably been what? Four or five months. If the dwarves are like really fast at making forges, I have no idea. But I think overall we're probably looking, you know like, at a period of about a year, maybe two years that have passed throughout this show.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a fault of the timeline, because we know that these events are being compressed from the entirety of the second age into a watchable season of television. So because they have to say, you know like, well, keller brimbor needed the dorbs help and that's how they found out about the Mithril and that's when Sauron found out that you know Celebrimbor had Mithril and that's when he requested that everyone gets rings. So all of this stuff is happening, but really in a realistic time frame this would happen over the course of years, not months. But it needs to happen over the course of months because not a lot of other stuff is happening for the story to take place. So it's kind of like a paradoxical thing where in reality months, maybe years are passing, but in actual visual time on screen we're only seeing days or weeks pass. So it's a weird thing.
Speaker 2:That's probably my biggest criticism coming out of these two seasons well, what they did was they jumped through like a wormhole that really shot them into the, into the future. But yeah, dude, that, yeah, you know, I didn't even really think about it. But yeah, they didn't really show like they didn't really they. They talked about the need of a great forge but they didn't show it actually really being built. It was just, it went from inception to completion, just like that 100 percent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Rich are we. Are we missing something?
Speaker 3:here it's, they're doing, uh, I think they're doing a generally fine job, because all of this stuff is supposed to happen over years and years and years. Yeah, it's not. It's not. It's not something that unfurls slowly, uh, I mean quickly, like this. So you know, I I didn't even think that there was that much passage of time really demonstrated. I mean, there's a couple of times over the episodes, uh, where elrond, when elrond and durin have a conversation, he's like oh man, something's been happening to me, and he's like I don't think it's as bad as me, as what's been happening to me, and he's like I gotta overthrow my dad. And then he, like elrond, turns around and he's like well, I got a lot going on too, so that made it feel like there was some time passing. And we know that.
Speaker 1:That's a good point.
Speaker 3:During that time where he was, you know, not in the good graces of his dad, an incredibly financially irresponsible prince that you know, the he kind of got, like his daddy, cut his credit card off and they were kind of destitute for a while. And I don't think you become destitute in three days, you know, like I don't excellent point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's a really good point. You don't just tighten your belt and get a new job and get beaten up by your co-workers in the span of a week. But that's what we see of Durin and it does seem like it's happening very quickly, but obviously it needs a little bit of time. And I think that's kind of the unfortunate historical aspect of Tolkien's like awareness, like he's aware of the passage of time, he's aware of how history works on a macro level and like he can tell these stories and then this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened, and this is over the course of 100 years. But for a show like this to really get that stuff across, you need to tell it like you would any other show, like back to back to back to back, instead of like five years later Durin isn't allowed to buy the really nice mushroom he sees at the grocery store Stuff like that uh, yeah, stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Uh, let's stick with the dwarves a little bit because, um, I I did find that to be one of the more fascinating aspects of these, these last four episodes of season two. Yeah, specifically when it came to the ring, because we we haven't really talked about king durin too much, uh, prior to this point, but what struck me is that he's a very cautious, very reserved and very wary king. He doesn't want to get involved with other people he doesn't know, he doesn't want to dig too deep on the off chance something goes wrong. And I even wondered does he know about the Balrog? And that's why he doesn't want to like dive into, like the mithril mines. Is that why he's like stopping all uh production going forward?
Speaker 2:you know. It's interesting that you say that, because I feel like, I feel like he, he knew something. If it wasn't specifically the balrog, I think he knew that there was something going on because he was very adamant about not mining the mithril it was like dogmatic in a way, you know, like it was just like no, no, no, this is, this is the law.
Speaker 1:We cannot do it. And this is like he was saying it in a way that was just, you know, like for the safety of everyone involved, we can't do this. But clearly all of that went out the window the the moment he got, like the literal moment that he got the ring on because, like it was the next day where he had entirely changed his tune, but I don't know if it's the next day again like it's the time passage in the show is very confusing, but it seemed as though it was the next day and you.
Speaker 2:You can see the influence like over time of the ring like it was like he. He essentially became like a shell of his former self, you know, and prince durin, like he, he saw that and like he knew that it was the ring, like he could tell, like he completely changed after he started wearing that ring and even Disa had picked up on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rich, you have anything to say about? Like Durin's quick transformation from wary, thoughtful king to completely greed driven?
Speaker 3:Well, there's a couple of things I'm trying to kind of parse out here. So the the rings that the elves have seem to, generally speaking, have no ill effects on the wearer. And if we kind of go by the understanding that we know that galadriel still has her ring I believe in Jackson's canon right, if she has that ring, it doesn't seem to have any ill effects. So the same exact process, give or take, was used to make the Dwarven rings. The only thing that we can see at any point with forging is that when the men I'm sorry, the rings of men, the rings of men are forged, those have sauron's blood right like yeah, that's crazy, that was crazy that's his malice poured into it right, the kind of like the one ring, and so I understand how the ring of men and the the one ring right have his malice directly in it.
Speaker 3:So that's far more, uh, it has a far more powerful effect on the wearer. I just don't see. And then there was that one ring that was messed up, that mirandir, mirandir war, and she went into like the shadow realm and she became invisible. Uh, I just, I wish we could kind of understand. Like I don't get it. I can't tell you this is what these rings do to these wearers and why one is different than, like, what the elves have. Is it just their natural, their, I guess, I guess there's a couple ways to look at it.
Speaker 1:For the one thing, it seemed as though, before Sauron dropped the mithril into the concoction for the Dwarven rings, it seemed as though he put a little curse on it.
Speaker 2:You know, like he kind of closed his eyes.
Speaker 1:He kind of whispered something, he dropped it in. We don't see that with the forging of the elf rings, but he does touch the mithril. He's just like what, or is this? And in that moment he could have put something on it. You know, like there, there is a connection there where he physically touched the mithril ore before that was inserted into the elven rings. So that's that. That is fascinating, I I think, obviously, the major points that I think Tolkien might have made was that the elves, their statute, is of such a pure nature that it may not have affected them in the way that it would affect the other wearers.
Speaker 1:Either way, they did become reliant on the rings. Uh, you see that a couple times throughout the beginning of these first couple episodes, even just even slight ways, like when, when, uh, when galadriel put her ring on, there's a, like a, a creepy smile like she like puts on her face, like it's just like a everything I've ever wanted is right here in my hand, sort of thing. And that's exactly what sauron wants. He wants you to feel like everything that you want is going correctly. And that's kind of what he did with the dorvin rings, right, he? He made them to fix a problem that ultimately he kind of created. You know know he wanted the like it was his plan to for eventually Mount Doom to erupt and for all of these Dorvan mining operations to become extremely dangerous because of X number of curses he's placed on on the world as it is. So these rings, with the mithril infused nature of them, would help the wearers fix whatever problems they deem fit.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's a key factor is that the mithril is, you know, connected to the Silmarils, which goes back into the Silmarillion, which goes back into the Untold Tales of Tolkien's lore, and these were created by Feanor as three great stones of power, much stronger than the actual rings of power. But because the rings are so deceptive and given as gifts and unassuming I guess you know it's a ring, it's an unassuming thing these gifts to elves, dwarves and man are more powerful even though they're. They're less powerful just because of the fact that they can corrupt the mind, especially with saran as the influencer. So I I think it's interesting that you point out that they don't even this, he doesn't even bother, uh, putting Mithril into the rings of men. At that point he's just like. You know what I tried. I'm just going to give him pure evil. He cuts his hand. He's like this is from the Mithril mines, you know it's just like a jar of Mithril.
Speaker 2:But it's crazy, dude, like he uses like some sort of genjitsu on this guy.
Speaker 1:Dude, he's completely flabbergasted. Celebrimbor is like he's literally.
Speaker 2:I felt so bad for him. I felt so bad for Celebrimbor.
Speaker 1:As the season went on, my heart was breaking for this guy he was like theoden and you know, with with like worm tongue, you know, like he's basically crawling on all fours. He thinks he's in, he's in charge, you know, but he's being deceived left and right right, um yeah so with the human rings. It's fascinating that there was no mithril infused into them. So it's just evil power. That's all that's in that ring or those nine rings. It's just evil power. There's nothing in them to fix whatever issues the humans are experiencing. It's just evil power.
Speaker 2:So it makes sense why they would turn into ringwraiths.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Because I mean it, it's just straight up, he dosed it. So we're talking a little bit about the rings and what it seems like Sauron's real power Is when you, you allow him to, you let him in, you kind of. As soon as you let him in, you kind of give him access to your mind, and it seems like the rings like really amplify that power, and and so it's like the rings are the doors for which sauron just can open and just be like, hey, you know, just like influence you in that kind of way and like, yeah, man, you know, like you said, like with, in that kind of way and like, yeah, man, you know, like you said, like with the human rings, like he just used his blood and he's just like full on influence with this one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did, I did like that. He tried, you know. He went to. He went to Kazadum. He spoke with the king. He's just like you know, I gave it my best shot. I also noticed I happened to notice that there was a Balrog right below. You guys Gonna use that against you really quickly, but I don't really care, because I'm just gonna use my blood. You know I don't need the Mithril. You know he could easily have just like snuck down, grabbed a could. He could scoop mithril out of everywhere, like that. That place is full of mithril. Um, he, he chose I. I love the fact that he went there like earnestly. He like he, he tried. You know, he's just like. You know what this is. This is for the little humans. We're gonna do something nice for him. Durin's just like noop and he's just like I got a second option anyway, don't worry my blood, what?
Speaker 2:what about that scene? That that, uh, you know keller brimbor thinks he hears something like. He hears like the panic outside and he goes outside. You know, saran tries to stop him for a little bit but then he goes outside and then everything looks perfectly fine. Dude, like that was insane. That scene was so crazy and that's why I, like I'm I'm kidding, kind of getting like you know, he, he, he's so embedded in color brimbor's mind that like, yeah, dude, he let, he used genjitsu on this guy I.
Speaker 1:I turned to my wife at that moment. I was just like, at this point I'm on sarin's side, like this is like crazy levels of just like reality manipulation. I'm, you know, like he deserves to win at this point. Come on, like that man, like he was like thanos in that moment, like the reality stone, like like it was so insane.
Speaker 2:And then when he goes back in and then like how the camera pans and then it shows the reality, I was like dude fantastic dude, like it was so crazy and you know, I, I'm, I'm so, I'm so happy because I feel like lord of the rings isn't lord of the rings without a really good siege oh, yeah, yeah, uh, uh, rich.
Speaker 1:Why don't you talk about the, the siege of aragion, a little bit like what are your thoughts now that you've seen it a couple times? How do you feel about adar's plan to take siege over aragion? Is it, is it obvious that it's sauron's plan all all along? Like, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 3:so well, there's a couple of well, all right, a couple questions about elves and their and their ability to fight, right, you know, I I guess maybe spoiled by by keleborn, by legolas, obviously, right, uh, I always feel like I say his name a little bit wrong, but a rondeer I think you got it right like.
Speaker 3:Finally, I don't, even if a rigion is, quote, unquote, understaffed at this moment, uh, slightly skeleton crewish. I don't understand why they I mean I understand the orcs have large numbers, but you know legalists would kill, like you know, 40 something without blinking. You know it was. He would just rapid fire even, uh, what's her name? Evangela lily. Uh, you know you guys favorite character and in the hobbit series, uh, she was it feely's love interest, keely.
Speaker 1:I think it's no clue. Honestly, literally no clue but she would kill.
Speaker 3:She killed, like you know, she was great, and it just feels like you have Elrond, who's a very good warrior, you have his crew, but then the others seem to be woefully unprepared for battle. I don't know if this is the Coast Guard.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I'm sorry, maybe.
Speaker 3:I'm insulting somebody right now.
Speaker 1:But it just seems like the lower ranks of their. We know that aregion is full of smiths.
Speaker 1:It's not necessarily full of warriors. Obviously there's warriors in there, but you don't, we don't really have too much knowledge of their personal prowess on the battlefields. Obviously, the, the army that the king and elrond showed up on, you know, like the, the army that they showed up with is, and proved to be more skillful than you know, the archers that were on the wall, basically that were already there yeah, I, I think that they like overwhelmed them with sheer numbers.
Speaker 2:I mean like let's, let's take a look at the elves that fought at helms deep, like they were getting rocked too, and like the, they were specifically like they. I think that those were actual warriors and by the end of that battle, not a, not an elf was alive, except for a legolas that was right and yeah, I do like the fact that I think it's in helms deep.
Speaker 3:There's that same shot where the wall gets taken down and then there's just the orcs flooding in or wait, wait that's the battle of gondor.
Speaker 1:No, that is. That is. That is humsley?
Speaker 3:yeah, it is humsley right and I just kind of love I do love the that that siege warfare. Uh, I mean, I do want to know how the orcs knew that that was the weak point of the wall when keller celery bimbo was celery bimbo.
Speaker 1:He looks down, he goes.
Speaker 3:That's the weakest part of the wall or that's the weakest part of the wall, and they, they were able to take it down.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, that was interesting I think, I think the the whole thing is uh, celery bimbo said that's the weakest part of the wall and he pointed at it and they're like that's the one we got to get at guys.
Speaker 2:Let's he's pointing at it roll the machine, go, go for it he let it out of the bag.
Speaker 3:I mean, that was pretty cool. I loved the, the, the archer that's part of I can't, I don't think. I recall. I'm not even sure if she is named, but she's rolling with elrond through the battle and he oh, she's like I don't know what I can do and she's like he's like even one arrow could help us and she has, and she just gets like rocked by a bunch of arrows.
Speaker 2:Just one arrow of like oh, my gosh Wolverine that is so unfortunate, but yeah, no, you're right. And then, finally, we got the hill troll that came into play you know, I
Speaker 3:love that guy. He's kind of instrumental in what happens later because it is at ours, at ours. I don't know if that uruk is his actual son or just his closest and like number one. I think it's the number one yeah, because you know? And he says hey, if we, you know, lord, if we release him, or father, if we release him, he'll hurt our own kind, he'll kill our own kind. And without even looking back, uh, adar just says release him.
Speaker 2:Right, right and like all of that was really playing into what sauron wanted. Man, like, all all of those decisions, like you know, like adar had become so adamant about taking down sauron that he was willing to, like put all of, like you know, his children in danger and like. So that started, you know. They started to see that like and the shift was starting to happen, they started to look at him unfavorably, like you know, oh, he really doesn't care about us and it got him killed in the end.
Speaker 1:True, it was, of course, you know, like all of these decisions that adar made that eventually, you know like, poisoned the mind of his followers. That wasn't enough for them to turn on him at the end. Obviously, sauron's influence yeah you know that, that evil spirit that he, you know like twists within people's minds.
Speaker 1:That's clearly what happened, when you know they were like it's too late and then they started attacking adar well, well, I mean there there is that, but like everything else leading up to that were opening doors for that influence to really like 100, 100 yeah, I, I think of um, I don't know if you ever watched like passion of the christ or anything like that, but there's, there's the scene where jesus is being accused by Pontius Pilate and you have the figure of Satan walking behind the crowds just inciting them to hate, hate and hate, and like hate towards Jesus specifically, and it seemed like that's kind of the role that Sauron was taking with Adar's army.
Speaker 1:You know, like he wasn't conscious or he wasn't like physically telling them you know, you gotta hate this guy, you gotta kill this guy, but his just spirit of malice was forcing them to mob mentality against the person that they had lost their faith with. And I think that that was a really interesting, I guess transpiring. I don't know, it was interesting too, like I don't know if you, but they used the same camera angles, like when all the orcs were like on top of Adar as they did at the beginning of the season when they were on top of Sauron stabbing him crazy.
Speaker 3:I wonder. So this is a very elaborate plan on Sauron's behalf, but he does demonstrate to have an incredible amount of power and I wonder if it's like a jedi type mind weakness. Uh, you know, like you can force weaker minds?
Speaker 3:because, he could have and I'm granted, in his time in iraq he could have gained power. I don't know if he's like santa and elf or he like the more that believe in him, the more power he gets. Because why he didn't? He wasn't able to completely convince gladriel, even through illusion. I'm not sure if that's just because she's stronger willed. But then you have her and then you also have adar, because he never tried to. It would be much simpler if he just overpowered adar right, and got him to not, you know, to believe in him, to buy into him. But you know, he ends up kind of flexing his muscle and you know who knows if. Celebrimbor is one of the weaker kind of characters and that's why or I don't know if we're just supposed to see that it's his pride that is so much more of a flaw than the other characters I think that's an interesting point, like the idea of pride being a flaw, because in some ways it can be.
Speaker 1:You know, it can definitely be a crutch for people and sauron is used to. You know, as, as we've seen throughout this the series, he looks for people's crutches, he looks for what they are trying to achieve. Keller brimbor is trying to achieve perfection. He's trying to achieve purpose and sauron shows up with a purpose for him.
Speaker 1:He shows up with a way to perfect his craft yeah and that that is him speaking to his pride and that is him letting sauron into the picture. Anthony, you mentioned that it's like opening a door, and it's almost like opening a door to a vampire. Like everyone knows, you're not supposed to invite the vampire in, but just opening the door isn't enough. You need to, you know, accept them into your house for you to be in danger of the vampire, and that's basically what's happening with sauron right here.
Speaker 2:He, he is um coming up to people's doors, he's showing them what they want and then they're letting them in, letting him in, and I think that that's such a fascinating um aspect for the character right and in galadriel and keller brimbor they have that exchange where you know he gives her the, the nine rings, and you know he he's, you know he's upset, upset, he's distraught about how he was able to be tricked so easily. And you know el galadriel like pretty much it was like you know, look, I understand, it's like as soon as you let him in he takes hold and, yeah, like you open the door for him, that's it. Like he, he can, as soon as he gets to know more about you and what you, what you need and what you're about, he, he's a chameleon man like he.
Speaker 1:He can shift it so easy I, I really, I feel like we could make a whole podcast about just saran alone? Yeah, saran because he's such a fascinating, fascinating villain. Um every scene that he's in he steals um. I love the, the journey he takes from halbrand to anatar to eventually back to sauron. You know like he eventually just devolves back into. I gotta get these rings made, dude. What are you doing?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and holding his people hostage, pretty much like hey look, I'll stop the siege, but you got to do this it is interesting, anthony, you mentioned that um, one of the rings that they had like created we don't know what they use in the creation of that ring or whatever maybe they did try his blood and maybe that is how they got how she went invisible and went into the unseen world um, that that could be, that could be a possibility, I don't know. I'm excited to see what happens to the, the regs of men, and I hope they put like three of them on pharazon because like he needs to go down that three of them.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh yeah yeah, yeah um, I I feel like we we've like talked, you know, quite a bit about, you know the, the siege of aregion, I mean that that takes. I would would say that a lot of that takes center stage of this season, especially towards the end For sure yeah. But by the end of the season Numenor is in complete chaos. Man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they had basically a stolen election, right yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:They had a coronation ceremony, they had a queen ready to take her oaths, and then an eagle shows up. And then everyone's just like yo, farazan, farazan, farazan, and he like took this good omen of there being an eagle at a coronation as the opportunity to like announce himself as king.
Speaker 2:And then we have a whole bunch of nonsense and then, throughout the season, the queen just keeps on like, proving herself like so every time so. So alindio was supposed to receive the judgment of the valar right and that, yeah, that, um, that pool of water or a pool of ocean, like it was kind of a closed off space, but the queen decided to take his his place and that scene was really, really cool. She gets dragged down underwater. I didn't do you know what the name of that creature was?
Speaker 1:I think they called it the sea worm oh, okay but that's. That's the same beast that showed up early on in the first season of the show. I, I believe like it was the same. The same like face.
Speaker 2:Okay, I didn't know if it was the same, but I mean she, she survives that instance and then, like everybody's like kind of back on the queen side and then you know, then your boy, you know he's just, he's just so upset about this stuff that he just keeps on making up stuff. Like you know, all all the faithful they're, they're all traitors and this person is a traitor and so like they're trying to kill like off everybody. And yeah, elenio's like daughter was like pissing me off like the whole season dude, what's wrong with it?
Speaker 1:what's what's wrong with it? I was. I was like questioning, like her loyalty and like, um, like what her even motive is is, by the end of the first season, this season, she's completely gone off the deep end in terms of just who are you siding with? Can you not see that this guy is just the worst possible choice for ruler? What are you basing you? I think?
Speaker 2:I think she realizes it in the end yes, she definitely realizes it and so she like helps her father escape. But like, yeah, she's starting to see, like, okay, this guy's a little crazy. So yeah, um, yeah and and something that that and and it kind of ties a little bit back to what Rich was talking about. You know, like Elendil, like you know, maybe him being a king of Gondor, the queen does say for him to reclaim his lordship and gives him Narsil Dude, like I was like, oh my gosh, dude, the sword, it's the sword.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I was like oh my gosh, dude the sword it's the sword.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was like the sword that you know.
Speaker 2:Eventually, you know it gets shattered and reforged and goes to, uh, aragorn. But, dude, like I was, like man, it was so cool to see that sword man yes, uh, I I also had that freak out moment.
Speaker 1:This, the moment the word narsil was was said, I was just like the blade that was broken oh, the line that was shattered. Yeah, so I'm looking it up you know the the power of google is amazing. Um, yes, alendio was the first high king of gondor in tolkien's lore.
Speaker 2:So so so it seems like it's gonna be on track for that. Like you know, he's gonna be making his way. I I really do like the the casting for lindio.
Speaker 2:Like he, he does have that very like honorable like he yeah um, you know, I I just feel like in general, like a lot of the casting was really good. The actor for sauron just like knocked it out of the park, so yeah, there's a lot of that. And then we have, um, you know, we haven't really talked about I mean, we talked a little bit about how you know, gandalf he finally got his name, but you know they're over in rune. We have, uh, poppy nori and you know I call him gandalf. Now they, they get separated after that that whole like sandstorm, that, that that he conjures up and they meet. They meet these uh, you know, like they're other, like halflings, kind of like them, but they live in the hills and um and they share.
Speaker 1:They share a lineage, you know, there's a clear breaking off point that we learn about, where one part of uh, you know their history spreads to a nomadic tribe yeah and the other continues in on that canyon that they're, that they're residing in. So I thought that was really cool because, you know, ultimately hobbits are yearning for, uh, hillsides that they can dig into, that they can burrow into yeah, yeah, and so you know gandalf is, he's given a choice.
Speaker 2:But for you know, tom tom bombadil like tells him to, he brings him to a place to to find his, his gand. You know his staff his gand and so he's like you know you can either. You know you have a choice you, you can. Either you know is it going to be destiny or is it going to be friends.
Speaker 1:And in the end it was really all a test yeah, you know, tom bombadil like really should have like given him a hint about that, because that was kind of a cruel test. You know, like you, you will stop being a wizard if you go for your friends, or you can be the greatest wizard ever, but your friends will die. You know, like you, you will stop being a wizard if you go for your friends, or you can be the greatest wizard ever, but your friends will die. You know, like it didn't seem that's not a fair test. It really is not. Obviously he chose the right path because that led him to the staff that, um, you know, he ended up choosing.
Speaker 1:So one thing that I I want to look up I I don't necessarily understand how certain things match up so closely to the peter jackson films, but there are certain designs, whether it be the staff, whether it be the balrog, whether it be the door to kaza doom, they are very similar to the, the, their counterparts in the jackson films. To my knowledge, those are two separate continuities. Obviously, like the rings of power show leads into the lord of the rings. I'm using, you know, air quotes here, but the lord of the rings as we know it in the jackson films isn't the lord of the rings, lord of the rings in the jackson films isn't the lord of the rings, lord of the rings in the book. So it's like two separate continuities that kind of discuss the same topic um kella.
Speaker 2:Brimbor calls him the lord of the rings. Uh, sauron, yes yeah we, we we did.
Speaker 1:We did get that, but that's like I do.
Speaker 2:I, um, you're talking about the door, the door of Khazad-dum, where they say the way to open it is the Elvish word for friend.
Speaker 1:Yes, I feel like that was the same one.
Speaker 2:It was obviously like nodding to that door, correct?
Speaker 1:But even like the sorry Rich, even the Balrog was very, very, very similar to the Balrog of the Lord of the Rings films, like it was just. It was almost like a one-to-one design. I don't know if there's like any variation at all. Really I don't know if they got the rights to use those designs for this show, if that was like an intent or if there's like a variation on the design that's like so imperceptible that they can't be sued or something. I don't know. But I thought that was a really interesting thing. There's so many similarities in visual design to the movies that it's clearly intentional.
Speaker 2:The Balrog looked amazing. It looked so good the animation that they used the cg looked.
Speaker 3:it was crazy I, I think I well. So I mean, for example, the alamo draft house is playing the lord of the rings currently, right now, I, I think that a the jackson camp would be a little short-sighted not to allow them to uh, access everyone's member berries by showing us narsil, by showing us the balrog in the same form, by showing us the door, and then with the doors. One of my favorite parts is, you know, he says that it will only be accessible to friends.
Speaker 3:Yes, right, and then you know I like, I like how they set that up. I thought that was great. The Lord of the Rings mention wistfully brings me back to one of the greatest movies of all time, the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen with Sean Connery, and at one point he goes this league is extraordinary and you know I just loved when it was like the Lord of the Rings, like I just wish that they would have just flashed to like the just the kind of movie posters in that second, just to kind of like drive it home a little bit more. Uh, I.
Speaker 1:I like where your head's at, I like where your head's at. There was a I forget what the name of the twitter account is at this point, but like maybe like two years ago or whatever, there was like a movie poster or a movie poster, like a twitter account where it was. They kept like fake, quoting the name of the movie in, like the, the text, the contextual text of the of the film so like it'd be like a.
Speaker 1:It'd be like a gif of like harry potter and he just, and it's just like. This is just like harry potter and the chamber of secrets or something like that. It looks like the character's saying that, but it's not like. This is just like Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets or something like that it looks like the character is saying that, but it's not.
Speaker 1:But anyway, anyway, yeah. So I did chuckle at the Lord of the Rings quotes and all that. I thought that was pretty funny. Let's talk a little bit more about the Balrog, because I think King Durin had a quite noble end, even though, like it was, all you know, by his own making. I guess, obviously he's being heavily influenced by the ring, heavily influenced by sauron, who doesn't want the armies of the dwarves to show up on the doorstep right to stop the battle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that I was saying the exact thing that you know. He noticed that balrog and it's like okay, you know, like that, that was a the exact thing that you know.
Speaker 1:He noticed that balrog and it's like okay, you know, like that, that was a cool scene too that was a cool scene where, like he's just like, oh, I just got rejected by the king, and he turns his head and he like looks into the fire.
Speaker 2:And he's just like, oh, there's a balrog down there, let me get that yeah I mean I I guess nothing will sober up her mind like a Balrog Cause, like you know, he started, he took the ring off after that. You know, like I mean, that was crazy dude.
Speaker 1:That was such a cool scene, dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of cool scenes in this show, but that one where he's just like I'm just going to full send charge at this like ancient demon of darkness and see what happens demon of darkness and see what happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I'll rock a morgoth man it. Yeah, that was really cool and it was like a really nice moment of reconciliation between prince and king. And you know, yes, and pretty much passing the baton, like you know to, and calling his son king durin, and yeah, it was, it was nice. Like you know, he was saying he was talking about, uh, prince durin was talking about how they would arm wrestle and that his father would like kind of let him, you know, linger a little bit before slamming him down and he was like that wasn't me letting you do it, that was just you getting stronger, just like you are now, and I really liked, I really liked that moment that they had.
Speaker 2:I really really liked like I loved the dwarves, like like even the first and second season, like I just felt like their scenes were so good and the chemistry between durin and disa were amazing, like they were believable that they were a married couple and that they really they respected each other. They would bump heads sometimes, but they really respected each other in the end of the day. But they had such strong characters and I really enjoyed them. Every time I saw them on screen I was like happy to see them yeah, those two actors specifically had such excellent chemistry.
Speaker 1:Whenever they're on the screen, you know it's going to be something that you're going to think about for the next couple hours. They just hold such weight in that room. So, really quick, we should really talk a little bit about Rune and uh gandalf and tom bombadil. We know that uh tom bombadil gives him the ultimatum of friends or destiny, and he chooses friends plus destiny. We don't know that until the end, but, um, you know he chooses friends and ultimately this plays into the dark wizard's hands and we find out that the dark Wizard is one of the five Istar. That includes Gandalf, that includes Saruman, that includes Radagast, and there's another blue wizard somewhere out there, so there's two blue wizards. This is one of the unnamed wizards. It's interesting that they're not giving the character a name. I feel like maybe they will going forward, because he's clearly not done. He's clearly still in the game.
Speaker 3:What are we going to do if we don't have a whole season dedicated to figuring out someone's damn name? I mean, it wouldn't be the Rings of Power.
Speaker 1:I was very confused when Annatar showed up. I'm like wait, lord of Gifts, I don't buy this.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think they even kind of hid the joke in the show because Merrimack apparently doesn't find out his name is Merrimack until about a year and a half before we meet him, and he seems to be at least 17. So you know, for 15 and a half years they were calling him nobody, and I think it's just because they're like oh yeah, you know, there's nobody with the long beard, nobody with the blonde hair in the water, and now there's nobody with a beard in the desert.
Speaker 1:How do you guys feel about the I kind of feel it was like randomly sprung on but the romance between Merrimack and Poppy. What are you guys' thoughts?
Speaker 2:I do like that moment when they kiss and she asks like did you eat lizard for supper?
Speaker 1:moment when they kiss and she asks like did you eat lizard for supper? Oh, that was disgusting because, like I can't, I obviously can't like picture the smell of lizard or taste of lizard, but I I can understand, like you know, sense remaining on someone during intimacy.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's interesting but, I mean um her poppy leaves with that group.
Speaker 1:And so does Nori, doesn't she?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Nori and Poppy kind of, I think they take the reins of that group a little bit because they know what it is to move and be nomadic. That group really doesn't. So I'm assuming that they're going to kind of teach him how to do that. And that was interesting because, you know, I thought that we would at least have Nori for another season.
Speaker 1:We might still, she might show up like you think I'd leave you. You didn't get very far. Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:No, but it's. We did have Poppy. Do the same, don't you?
Speaker 1:know that this song that I've been singing for the past couple seasons talks about exactly what's happening right now.
Speaker 3:Poppy, yeah, Poppy did that right At the beginning of this season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what she did. So who knows? I don't know.
Speaker 3:These extended goodbyes could just be like a big fake out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but how do you guys feel about her leaving gandalf? Like was there ample justification for that? Obviously, like everything that gandalf touches seems to you know he brings destruction wherever he goes.
Speaker 2:yeah, I I think that that she realizes that he's really now at the, at this point, where he's, yeah, like his path is he's going down a path that she really can't follow. You know, she was a lot of it was helping him because he didn't really, you know, he wasn't having, he didn't really have control over his powers, he didn't know who he was. Now he kind of like knew who he was. You saw how, how they kind of like led, like how they like did his name. They called him grand elf and it was like that was super close to.
Speaker 2:Gandalf.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So so I was like okay, they kept doing that Cause, like with, with the, the staff being called the Gans. Yeah, called the gans.
Speaker 2:yeah, um yeah and so, yeah, I, I, I think that that she had a justification. I mean, yeah, he's, he's, he's dangerous, he's dangerous, although I mean caring. But you know, he's just, he's a being, he's a whole other being, from a different plane of existence excellent way to put it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like he literally does not belong in this mortal plane. So the fact that he does exist and is causing such chaos, literally, seemingly every single day, um, like, literally, like a week ago, they, they got sent up in a tornado, uh, that he created like a sandstorm tornado so I I totally get it.
Speaker 2:You know, like if you need a break, you need a break I like how he ends with him talking to tom and and saying they're going to call me gandalf, aren't they?
Speaker 1:yeah, I thought that was interesting because it almost harkens back to when he becomes gandalf the white and they call him gandalf and he's just like Gandalf that's what they used to call me. You know, it's almost like there's a barrier between when he gets his name to when he needs to regain it after he becomes the White Wizard, right.
Speaker 2:At least he doesn't have. Well, I mean, at least we don't know, because you know I was gonna say like well, at least it he didn't have to go through this like whole period of like figuring everything out again. But we don't know because you know, by the time we get to him he's already at. You know gandalf the white. So you know this is probably like a glimpse of like what happens after he kind of, I guess, reincarnates or whatever gets sent from wherever, whatever plane he was at, to, you know, middle Earth.
Speaker 1:I think next season we need a whole arc on him figuring out what his color is.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Am I? Am I Gandalf, the Red Gandalf, the Pink Gandalf, the pink gandalf, the gray, no too boring it's a gold. It's a goalie locks thing of like black too dark, white too bright, gray, just right next season is going to be him getting his outfit and then picking up the pipe he needs that pipe yes yeah, another thing too.
Speaker 1:Like is the the staff looks like the staff that he has in. Like, besides that, like there's like a little crystal that he has in the staff. The actual formation of the staff looks like the formation of the staff that he has in the lord of the rings yes so, uh, yeah, rich, you might be right where they, you know, they, they, you know, obviously talked, talked to the Jackson camp.
Speaker 1:They were just like hey, please let us use some of the rights to some of these designs so that we can have a cohesive project. Obviously, we're not trading on any of your shoes. You're not trading on any of ours. Hopefully, we can make this work, you know, and I think that's what ultimately happened.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean the synergy is, you know, you don't want to have a Sony situation, so you have to watch Morbius or something like that. So I think this like little kind of agreement and it's not. You know, I think it's advantageous for both camps, Right, you know?
Speaker 1:I think so yeah.
Speaker 3:I've definitely rewatched the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings movies, numerous like I don't want to tell you guys how many times I've rewatched them since the first season of Rings of Power, like I watched them before Rings of Power, then I watched Rings of Power, then I watched them again, then I watched them again, then I watched them in preparation, like they've been getting a lot of extra views from me alone because I just need to like cross reference, I need to watch something again, I need to double check information. You know, it's just. I think it's smart, it it ties them together and hopefully there will be at some point. You know, I'm sure you know bezos. You know it was really difficult for him to somehow come up with a lucrative offer to uhudge the Jackson camp in the direction of allowing them to use that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it must have been very difficult with his notoriously, you know, empty pockets. I mean, don't even pay for shipping, you know guys, I think I think that brings our discussion of the Rings of Power to a close. Anthony, do you have any final thoughts on these last four episodes? Slash the entirety of the Rings of Power. What are your thoughts now?
Speaker 2:Well, oh yeah, one last thing we didn't even talk too much about. Just one last thought Isildur, it seems like he's heading off back to Numenor, not really knowing what he's heading back off to and that little romance that he was having with. Estrid seems to be done with because of.
Speaker 1:Well, the guy's still there. Yeah, it was a really awkward like kind of goodbye, like there's a moment where, like, he invites her to numenor in front yes, that was super awkward she just they all just kind of like look at him and then like he grabs her hand and then like, yeah, it's, it's awkward, I don't want to well, to be fair, that vixen came into his like little seaside shanty and she professed her love for him and he said why are you telling me this?
Speaker 1:and then she kind of jumped his bones like he was the ceo shooter jumped his bones like he was yes, I, I totally agree, rich.
Speaker 1:I I saw exactly what you saw. But yeah, I thought that was awkward too. I'm excited to see what happens when he gets back to numenor, because I cannot wait for his sister, a r a r a n, who's based her entire political career on the fact that her brother died supposedly in middle earth, to see that her brother's alive just to be crushed. I just want to see her, her sister's, you know, soul crushed before coming to the light, you know, like that's.
Speaker 3:That's all I want to see also, why is she not upset about her other brother that we never see like she's okay with this attack on the faithful and her brother is off on like some pilgrimage, I believe, on the western side of numenor. So we have two brothers coming up. We're going to have Durin's brother showing up and we're gonna have, hopefully, isildur and her brother showing up the other brother's gonna show up like what the heck happened, brothers galore.
Speaker 1:Galadriel's brother's gonna come in like psych still oh yeah, um that.
Speaker 2:That's like another thing that we missed also Galadriel.
Speaker 1:Galadriel had like a final showdown with Sauron. I'm glad to hear a good, hearty laugh out of Rich on that one. Yeah, dude, so much happens in these episodes, so much to talk about and he ends up with the nine yeah, sauron has the nine rings. Like what is he gonna do with them? Where does where is he going? Does he bring one to tom bombadil just for him to be like I don't want?
Speaker 2:that uh, oh well, and then you know, now he has the backing of, he has an army, now sauron now has an army, he's probably going right back to Mordor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot to look forward to in a couple years, hopefully, if they ever make a third season of this. I hope they do, obviously they will.
Speaker 3:I think Jeff's got the pockets. We'll see the whole thing seen through yeah.
Speaker 1:I like to believe that this show is Beos's uh passion project. You know, like he, he, he really wants specifically this story told. So I, I, I'm, I'm hopeful that we'll see it through to fruition yeah, but yeah, but yeah like I'll say last thoughts, both of these seasons were really good.
Speaker 2:If you're a Lord of the Rings fan and you heard bad things about Rings of Power, I say give them a chance yourself, formulate your own opinion. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:I want to jump on that point because I purposely, since the Acolyolyte, have been straying from watching shows on a weekly basis, just not because I didn't like the acolyte, just because I didn't like the overall online attitude and conversation surrounding the acolyte. So I didn't watch rings of power, uh, as it was coming out. I didn't watch, uh, agatha all along. I still haven't watched agatha all along. I haven't, I didn't, you know, watch the penguin as it was coming out, like I was just like burnt out on just the weekly structure of shows. So I didn't really give it, uh, a chance when it was coming out again, obviously.
Speaker 1:But uh, one thing I remember seeing online was that, you know, a lot of people were taking umbrage at the fact that there's a scene where an orc has a family and a child and it's, you know, it's like showing too much sympathy for the orcs, but really it's a. It's a five second scene max, you know, and it's just like a. It's a one-off shot and obviously, like, this makes sense for the orcs. Obviously they don't just pop out of the mud like we see in lord of the rings. That that's a very specific type of work. So I didn't. Really I'm confused at the vitriol that people just seem to throw at things these days, I guess. So I'm I'm I'm happy to announce um, as someone who is, I would say, fairly critical of certain things you know like reasonable things, I feel like I'm a very reasonable critic. I'm happy to say that this, the second season, uh, really blew me away yeah, I.
Speaker 3:I think I think what's great about the series for me is I honestly, I said it the whole time I believe that once you've seen the second season because so many characters become so much more likable a Sildor makes so much more sense. Theo is just like an annoying teenager in this first season and then, like his mom, randomly dies, but he becomes so much better, I think, an interesting with his relationship with Isildur. I think that even even his sister becomes slightly more interesting when we see her finally see what's going on with her father and she brings the queen and everything's there.
Speaker 1:I agree yeah.
Speaker 3:Halbrand? Did Halbrand enchant the creature to make sure to spit Muriel out to create a further divide in Numenor? Did he see that coming? Was that even a thing? There's so many things now that you can look back and wonder what was at play. And I think it's weird because it's a weird bit of storytelling where, if this were a George R R Martin book, where you had the POV scenes right and then by the end things are happening concurrently, you find out more I think it works so much better. It's almost like by. Obviously it came from a book, that's the source material, but there's something to be said about, like the medium of television that doesn't perfectly fit it. And then by the end of season two, I think, now that you have all this extra information, it becomes so much better.
Speaker 1:I will jumping onto what you said. I do not believe that Sauron had anything to do with Miriel's saving in that scene. If their religion is stemmed off of the Valar and their belief as the faithful of Numenor, I don't think he necessarily has anything to do with just creatures and places as a whole got it outside of his initial plan for them, you know.
Speaker 1:So I think this was actually like she was proven innocent in front of the valor sort of thing. You know, that's that's my takeaway from what I saw. I, I don't have any like book knowledge to you know, back that up, that's just from what I saw, yeah. But yeah, I love that kind of stuff. I, I, I really enjoyed this season.
Speaker 1:Um guys, thank you so much for listening to us here for our 103rd episode of project geekology. Uh, next week we're going to be covering not rings of power, but you know it's going to be adjacent to it. We're going to be talking about the War of the Rohirrim, which is an animated project that connects to the original trilogy of Lord of the Rings films. I think it occurs 183 years before the Lord of the Rings trilogy. So very exciting stuff happening in the Peter Jackson camp. I don't think it's directed by Peter Jackson, but he's one of the producers on that. Be here next week for episode 104.
Speaker 1:As we discuss that, rich is joining us again, thankfully. We love his insight here and, you know, hopefully more Mets stuff happens that he can, you know, gush about in the coming weeks If you want to check out our socials. Check out our show notes. Down below, wherever you're listening to your podcast, you'll find our location on Twitter, on Instagram and so on, so that you can follow us more closely For upcoming episode details as well as personal projects that we're working on. Thank you so much. We will talk to you next week. Bye, bye y'all. Namarie.
