Project Geekology
Embark on an epic journey with Anthony and Dakota as they delve into the vast realms of geek culture, from cherished classics to cutting-edge creations. Join us for an exhilarating adventure of exploration and nostalgia, as we unearth hidden gems and reminisce about the moments that have shaped us. Welcome to the ultimate celebration of all things geeky!
Project Geekology
The Rings of Power - Season 1, Part 2
Ever wondered about the intricate narratives behind the three rings gifted to the elves in the "Rings of Power"? Join us as Rich, our special guest and self-proclaimed Uruk enthusiast, shares his insights on these characters and their profound significance in Middle-earth lore. Our conversation takes a whimsical turn as we reflect on personal hobbies like the Pokémon Trading Card Game Pocket, diving into the joy of collecting and sharing our card tales. You’ll also hear about the moving documentary "The Remarkable Life of Ebelin," which showcases the touching story of Matt Steen and his remarkable connection to the World of Warcraft community despite his struggles with a degenerative disease.
Gaming communities, as we explore, offer more than just entertainment—they forge real, meaningful connections. In this episode, we discuss the positive impact of virtual worlds, highlighted by Ibelin's story and the World of Warcraft memorial in Elwynn Forest. On a creative note, Dakota shares his work on an innovative Avatar timeline project that introduces a new dating system to simplify the fan-created chronology. Our discussion blends these personal and virtual narratives with rich analysis of the "Rings of Power" series, scrutinizing the dynamic plotlines and character arcs, and speculating about the mysterious origins of Mordor.
As we unravel the show's storyline, we question character motivations, especially Galadriel’s, and compare them to other media like "End of Days." We also delve into the enigma of the stranger believed to be Gandalf and the exciting journey of the Harfoots. With humor and insight, we examine the clever storytelling choices that reveal Mordor's origins and the intriguing dynamics of Numenor. Get ready for our upcoming "Rings of Power" marathon and don’t forget to connect with us on social media. Until next time, we sign off with our unique farewell, "namarié," urging you to "go towards goodness."
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How's it going, guys and geeks, welcome to another episode of Project Geekology. This is episode 101, but today we're only going to be talking about three. Three, what you might ask. Well, three rings gifted to the race of elves, and I'm really excited about it because now we finally have some idea as to what you know, the title's namesake of Lord of the Rings, the Rings of Power, is all about. We're starting to see the forging of the Great Rings and, yeah, we have a lot to talk about as we start discussing the next four episodes, the final four episodes of season one of Rings of Power. But, as always, I'm your host, dakota.
Speaker 2:I'm joined, as always, with Anthony and I'm actually glad that we finally see some of the rings of power. I'm like dude, the show is called rings of power. Where are the rings of power? And I think we found we're starting to see that all righty. So joining us this week for part two of season one is rich, your local Uruk, enthusiast and supporter.
Speaker 1:We call them orcs on this podcast buddy Whoa.
Speaker 2:Actually it's both, it's both. I think that Adar is the Uruk, but his followers are orcs.
Speaker 1:Okay, I like that, I like that. Well, I mean, that's what they are.
Speaker 2:I would say Uruk is like a sacred thing, it's an actual like.
Speaker 1:Their own race of people, right, right, right, because they were the elves that turned into orcs.
Speaker 2:But the orcs were, like I think, created by him. But we'll talk more about that later. We'll get into it. I know I usually start off what I've been up to, but you know what? Let's start with Rich again. What have you been up to this past week, rich? Did you watch Season 1 a second and a third time?
Speaker 3:I did not. Well, I watched the four episodes we're talking about again. Yeah, one more time actually, so I did. And then Pokemon, the trading card game, pocket, oh yeah. Dakota and I were talking about that it's, uh, it's a thing, guys, uh, my, I actually I don't know if you guys can notice here on the zoom call what my, uh, my full name is. Can you point that out to the audience? Anthony rich ketchum? Yeah, because I gotta catch them all, baby. So thanks for having me on again, guys yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1:Hopefully you're not catching rings, because you know what that does to people in middle earth. Not good stuff. Yeah, we're happy to have you on rich. Uh, and I still haven't gotten hooked on tcg pocket. I will play for maybe like 10 minutes a day and then I will forget it existed. And then I see my wife playing and I'm like, oh, maybe I can open a pack and I can't.
Speaker 3:But there's nothing better than having I overheard a student was looking at my profile and showing another student how good my cards were and that's cool. That was a level of I just you know that's in my teaching career in 16 years. I'm not going to lie to you. That's like top eight right there, like just a kid going wow, wow, look at this guy's cards, man, like he's got some good pulls wow, okay, that's really cool, I got a lot of x, really exciting you guys got to get in this right next week.
Speaker 3:I expect, uh, to hear you guys have the best cards in the game.
Speaker 2:Some mew twos oh well, I mean I, I play, I play the game a bit, I, and I do have mew twos. I've been trying to get that. The, the, the one that is eluding me is, um, that like animated one oh, yeah, the uh.
Speaker 3:That's like the scenic ones where you, they tell a visual story.
Speaker 1:It's yeah my, my sister-in-law. She was extremely lucky In her first ever pool she got the Golden Charizard and her second pool she got the Scenic Mewtwo. So I've yet to come across any cards that good in the two or three weeks that I've been playing at this point.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so she has like really good luck with this game god to your pulls man, I don't know, I mean, I have some like pretty decent cards, like some like nice, some nice cards, but like golden charizard yeah, I don't got that not that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sister-in-law, has it some reason? Uh, anthony, what have you? What have you been up to?
Speaker 2:so outside of pokemon 2cg pocket, of course so, uh, I had sent you a a trailer for a documentary called the remarkable life of ebelin and you did send me that and I watched the trailer and it looked really good, it is really good.
Speaker 2:It's so it's about this guy named matt steen, and so he had in 2014 he passed away, so this is like kind of like talking about his life and and leading up to his death, and so he was diagnosed, I think at like four or five, with this degenerative disease called duchene or duchene or something like that, yeah and so you know, over time, you know he, like he was able, when he was younger he could walk and stuff.
Speaker 2:Then he got it got to the point to where he needed a wheelchair and then you know, eventually, like he he could barely like move but like his parents allowed him to game, you know, because he really couldn't do anything like sports and not really like play with kids too much really. And so you know he, like I said, he gamed a lot and he was really really big into world of warcraft. So I mean I'm I'm gonna, you know, tell you a bit about it. I mean it's still like worth watching. Even with me talking about it. His family, everybody else like only saw this guy. That was like spinning gaming, you know the gaming all day. But it's like you know what are you gonna say? Because like that's really all all he can do.
Speaker 2:He had this really cool setup though that like he could he couldn't really like move his, like his arms and, like you know, like the type and to like move the mouse, but he had like a way and like these, like these buttons like set up on his mouse and like this other thing that he was able to kind of like move and like he played it like in this kind of way, like he had all these like little like attachments so that he could type in a custom keyboard. It was in this kind of way, like he had all these like little like attachments so that he could type in a custom keyboard.
Speaker 2:It was like this, like custom thing, and so he, he set up a blog and everything, and so his parents, when he eventually passed away, his parents didn't know how to like let you know the people that he used to game with. No, like, hey, look, he passed away, but they remembered his password of his blog and so they just put like hey, you know, my, my um adventure is over, and then that you know matt's passed away, this is his parents. And and so you know, they ended up getting all these crazy like emails because they put down like their email like hey, you know, just reach out to us. And like a bunch of people from wow, like in his guild, like you know, this guy was amazing, he did this and that he was really there for me and like, just like came pouring in like crazy and like this dude was like a part of, like you know, really close, like knit group and, um, you know, there were one of the things that that his, his parents, were afraid of was that, you know, he would never experience things like love, which he kind of did.
Speaker 2:And you know, obviously, look, you know we know the stories about people meeting in wow and so, like you know, he met, kind of met somebody in wow. I mean they didn't really like date or anything, but like they would flirt online and stuff. But I mean he knew what she looked like because like there was times where the guild would get together and like they would take pictures and like kind of share it to him. They wanted him to come out but he wouldn't because he never, he never told them about it, about what he was going through. But you know, even even though, like you know, I kind of told you like the gist of what it is, it's still really like worth watching because they tell a huge chunk of the story through um, through wow yeah, I, I was so watching the trailer.
Speaker 1:Um, just to jump in, anthony, watching the trailer is pretty much kind of enough to kind of encapsulate what the story is about. Um, it's, it's this guy. Yeah, like as you said, he, he didn't really have a life outside of world of warcraft because of the circumstances that he, you know, existed in, but they created a documentary using world of warcraft's like in-game graphics to like tell his life through, and I think that that's really cool and like custom animations you know within the game yeah, which was like really really cool like, and I thought that was a really nice like touch and it was really really cool because I know that and don't get me wrong, like you know, it can be anything, even too much of anything good can be bad for you.
Speaker 2:But you know, I know that a lot of people, you know, they see gaming and they're like. You know this person doesn't really have a social life. Well, there are people out there that can't really have social lives, even though they would love to have a social life maybe, but they can still establish them in some kind of way, and video games sometimes does that. The amount of videos that I've seen online where people meet these people that they've been gaming with for for 10 years but never met, but they eventually meet and get together and it's like they, it's like it's not awkward because it's like. You know I've known you for this long. You know I've known you for 10, 15 years. You know it's just. You know we're face to face, you know so yeah, I, I gotta check this documentary out.
Speaker 1:It's called oh, I just pulled it up, what was it called? The remarkable life of evelyn that was his remarkable life of I b e, l, I e belen yeah, yeah, that that that was, his, um, his wow name.
Speaker 2:So, but, yeah, that's, yeah, that that was. That was a really good documentary. One of my co-workers told me about it and I sat down and watched and I really, really enjoyed it. I think that it really did a lot, you know, showing that. You know, gaming isn't always bad. You know it can be, but it, um, it can be really, really a great and special thing, you know, for people. And, uh, you know, other than that, I mean, yeah, I have been playing a little bit of wow. They have a memorial for him in the game in elwyn forest oh, I think I heard about this yeah has it been there for a while I, it might have been I think it has.
Speaker 1:I think I've heard of that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:so I, I went by to like check it out and visit it and, dude, it's literally, it's literally like the same as his headstone in real life.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really cool Dude. His headstone is like amazing.
Speaker 2:I'm like dude, like the artistry on it. It's like. It's like something that you would see in a while, but like in real life.
Speaker 1:That's really cool. I definitely, I definitely plan to check it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, definitely checking it out. Yeah, definitely check it out. But yeah, enough about me. How about you, Dakota?
Speaker 1:Man, the entire time you were talking I was like a bracket in my head about like what the heck have I been up to?
Speaker 2:Dakota's like I've done nothing.
Speaker 1:I mean, I have done stuff here and there. Mostly it's been in service of like you know my Avatar timeline video. In service of like you know my my avatar timeline video. Um, I did today basically create a timeline, uh dating system because I didn't like the dating system that the fans used. So I I made something that I find is is easier to manage. Do I want to talk about that here? Is is easier to manage. Do I want to talk about that here? Basically, I use the first avatar as the means for, like when to start the dating forward and backward, as you should, instead of. Yeah, it's just like, it's the error of the avatar. You know, it makes the most sense the fans for, because I guess this dating system has predated the Legend of Korra, so they didn't really know about Wan. So the fans for a long time have been using AG and BG, which is before and after the Air Nomad genocide, which is a little macabre.
Speaker 1:I never really liked it and it's awkward because the Hundred Year War makes it just it gets confusing. I never liked it, so I just kind of ignored it. What's just? It's it gets confusing. I don't, I didn't really. I never liked it, so I I just kind of ignored it what's your, it's not canonical anyway.
Speaker 1:So it's er and ea so the era of rava, yeah, electronic arts, the era of rava, which is the light spirit and the era of the avatar okay because in the episode uh with juan, there's there's a line by vatu that says the era of rava is over, and there's also another line, um, when kiyoshi's talking, uh, to like the spirit of kora, where she's just like, if you don't reconnect, reconnect with your past lives, our era is over. And I'm thinking, what is our era? Well, it's the era of the Avatar. So it's the era of Rava and the era of the Avatar. It seems pretty simple to me. So I just use that as the divide and yeah, so the second harmonic convergence that we see in Korra's time is basically 10,000 years, so it's 10,000a. Okay, cool, that's cool, yeah, so that's. That's a big thing that I've been up to. I'm I'm still working on putting dates to all the little time periods and and zones within the the timeline, but I am moving forward with it.
Speaker 1:Oh, another thing I'm working on is the background to my video. So, for all of my like big content, I like to do like a scrolling background of sorts where I incorporate some sort of art or some sort of feature from within the world that I'm talking about, as just kind of a backdrop for what I, what I say, and it just kind of makes it, in my opinion. I think it makes it look a little bit more professional, a little more put together, like I put a lot of thought into it and I have. So for this one, I'm using a bunch of concept art from both the Legend of Korra and Avatar, the Last Airbender, and I'm just kind of like layering it over each other. And that's kind of what I did with my Frozen video and, yeah, I liked the way that that that frozen video came out. So I'm going to do the same basically for this video where I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm layering a whole bunch of different concept art onto like a big scrolling image that will eventually make up the background visuals for my video. Sweet, that's cool. Yeah, a lot of work goes into it. And if you're from my YouTube channel, uh, trying to glean some information about what I'm working on I'm sorry it's taking so long I have a lot of other stuff going on in my life. Uh, I'm literally building a house, um, and I plan on moving in a couple of months. So there's a lot going on like in my like actual day-to-day, my actual day-to-day life outside of my 40-hour work week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I don't have a lot of time. Yeah, guys, give the man a break. He's now also working on his OSHA 40.
Speaker 1:You know what? I don't wish that upon anyone.
Speaker 2:That's the next level, instead of the OSHA 30. You got the OSHA 40. Oh my.
Speaker 1:God, I think there is an osha 60 for like foremans. I think there's like for foremans and like general contracts, I think they're gonna be like I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2:I don't want to osha 60.
Speaker 1:No, I, I think uh, those, those dreams are behind me.
Speaker 1:I can't do that. Um, guys, let's uh, let's talk a little bit about the Rings of Power. One thing that we didn't really speak about last week is that some of the characters, specifically the elves that were looking over the Southlands they were captured by orcs. We never really talked about that experience of them trying to break free from all that. Why can't I remember this guy's name I know it's Bronwyn and Arandir, arandir, yeah, arandir. He finds a way to break free from the orcs and he Uruks.
Speaker 3:Well, he's let go. Whatever we want to call him, he was let go. Thank you for the respect.
Speaker 2:He was let go to deliver a message.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yes, yeah, he was let go to deliver a message. That's right. Yes, yeah, he was let go to deliver a message to the people of the Southlands, basically to come to serve the true ruler of the Southlands, who, at this point, we all think is Sauron, but this guy apparently hates Sauron. That was a twist. Yeah, I didn't expect that.
Speaker 2:Seriously, it's like a power struggle, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, yeah, and then there's, I think, after that we enter, like the, the new episodes that we're covering this week, where the, the humans of the southlands, basically have a little, not a civil war necessarily, but some sort of civil unrest, where they they divide into people who they choose to follow the people who remember, uh, I guess, or or maybe not remember, but the people who, like, idolize uh their forebears, who pledged allegiance to sauron and morgoth, they chose to uh ally themselves with the orcs, or the orks, um, while the other people like, just kind of like, congregated at this big watch tower sort of thing and and awaited their, these, these uruks you know to, to come and attack them, which was a really cool idea, because they were able to lay a huge trap on them it's.
Speaker 2:It really is insane how the show really sets up the first four episodes, really sets up the last four episodes, because it goes from like zero to 60, like in, like by the end of episode five and then like six, seven, eight. It's like dude, what is going on there's like it gets so crazy, dude what I will say is, by episode six, it feels like a different show it really does, yeah and after.
Speaker 1:So I watched seven and eight just before recording today and I will say, by episode seven I just kind of felt like giddy, like I was like, oh, it's lord of the rings again yeah, yeah, it really, I'm finally into it, I agree. Prior to this. I'm just like I didn't hate it but I didn't love it, and that's that's why I just didn't you know, didn't do anything for me.
Speaker 1:I didn't do anything for me the first time, a couple of years back again, for last week's episode of you know, we were covering the first four episodes, but it wasn't until this episode that I, or specifically episode seven, rolled around and I was just like, oh, I feel it. Now I get where this is heading. Rich, what are your thoughts going into these last four episodes? Obviously, you've seen not only these episodes many times, but you've gone past that point into season two and finished that. Obviously, don't tell us what you think about season two, but how do you feel, coming back to these episodes, having watched season two?
Speaker 3:I guess, like I said last week, a lot of it's. I just feel like so many of the blanks were filled in for me. As I'm watching that, you know, I'm really able to appreciate it more. So, as excited as you were to re-watch these four, I mean when waldreg, all right, falls in front of uh adar, yes, right, and pledges right to him, or to sauron, I I mean it's just uh, love that. I love that moment. I don't know if I'm sick for loving it, but just when you know and knowing what I, you know I had already known it, you know. So like seeing it again is just being able to study their faces Just magnificent. I really enjoyed it and this one really does.
Speaker 3:I think that the second half of the season really did a good job of kind of building to season two.
Speaker 3:You know the wait was really long is another thing that like seeing it again is really fun because I finished it and then I had to wait so long to find out what was going to happen next.
Speaker 3:You know, and as we'll talk about this episode, I got to see some of like what I knew was going to happen kind of answered for me later on in the next kind of the second season, but I, just seeing it so close together, I really appreciated that much more. I there's almost a part of me that feels like these would almost work better as movies, especially with the time which is the time between seasons. I don't know, that just might be my greedy heart, but uh, I love seeing it together. The flow of it is uh, so enjoyable. It's like I don't remember what it was like to have to watch the fellowship of the ring and then wait for the next one to come out. You know, like now I just I spoil myself and become a glutton and watch 12 straight hours and I just want to kind of dive into Middle Earth and watch all of these episodes.
Speaker 2:And you didn't have to wait long for those movies either, because of the fact that they were filmed together, you know. So, like you got Fellowship of the Ring and then what? The next year you got the Two Towers and then the following year you got Return of the King, I don't think that there was any years.
Speaker 1:A year gap was there no, it was 2001 through 2003. But what was what was fantastic was, you know, they would intersperse, like they kept releasing the extended editions a couple months before the following movie, so it's like you got to watch them again with new information, then watch the new movie, and then watch that new movie again with new information. So it was, it was really cool. That was a really good time to be a fan of, uh, lord of the rings. It's probably the best time to be a fan of lord of the rings because, you know it, they're, I think they're the best movies ever created, personally.
Speaker 1:But I love them um uh, as far as what you Rich, like you kind of wish these were movies and in a way they're kind of they're they're all feature length. You know, I think maybe not feature length I think that would be 90 minutes but some of these episodes are like they average about 70 minutes per episode, which is a long time, like there was clearly no constraints when it comes to, um, you know episode length and you know, like, what they wanted to show it was just like whatever they felt they needed to get onto the screen, they did, and I really appreciate that, because it doesn't ever feel extremely rushed yeah, I remember there are episodes of I'm not trying to take shots at it like the show, but there were episodes of acolyte or even, uh, I you know, I personally kind of like kenobi, and there would be episodes where I would just be like it's over, like I have to wait another week, that's it.
Speaker 3:You gave me 37 minutes, oh yeah that's it's.
Speaker 1:It's highway robbery. Yeah, some sometimes. I think for the acolyte definitely needed longer episodes. I don't want to get too bogged down. It's like acolyte discussion because it's it's so difficult to compare these two shows, but it's it kind of needs comparison because they have a similar budget, season wise, and it's frustrating because this is such they they clearly stretch the budget to, you know, in extreme ways with this show, as opposed to what they were able to do with the acolyte and I. There's really no comparison in terms of the actual quality of the product that was, you know, released.
Speaker 1:Whether you like this or not, or whether you like acolyte or not, is a different story, but I'm talking just pure quality here. Acolyte didn't look bad, but it certainly didn't feel rich and wealthy like this show constantly does. You know, there every scene is an abundance of things to look at and, uh, lots of bright colors and dark darknesses. It's really it's. It runs the gamut of like everything you want to see in a big fantasy epic. So, yeah, that was really cool. Uh, in the following episode, you know, after they destroy the bridge, they, the people in I think episode six is the big battle episode, if I remember correctly where the people of the southlands.
Speaker 1:they kind of bunker down into their village um, they wait for night time, nighttime, and they have this big ambush where they know the orcs are coming. Oryx and Rich just keeps shaking his head.
Speaker 2:whenever I say orcs, I mean but you're not wrong, though I mean there are orcs. There are orcs, I know.
Speaker 1:And there is a Oryx, but you know what?
Speaker 2:They're both.
Speaker 1:For the sake of the meme, we got to continue. Let a eric, but you know what? Um, they're both for the sake. For the sake of the meme, we gotta continue.
Speaker 2:Um um, let me tell you, but, yeah, I'll be honest with you, that fight, like I mean, I like that fight. But after the initial skirmish I said, yeah, no way, it said like that. I said, dude, we saw that how big their force was. I said, dude, this is a tiny little battle. Hey. They thought they won. Yeah, right. And then when I started to, see the arrows come out of the thing I said. Yep I.
Speaker 1:I guess the the uh. The thing that you can kind of um balance that with is they probably assumed they destroyed most of the army when they attacked the watchtower and they were stuck inside the watchtower when it crumbled, but somehow they have a much bigger army, you know, once the once the second wave of uruks uh arrive into their village. Thank you, you're welcome, sir. Um. So yeah, I, I see what you're saying, anthony, but I think they there was also some plausible deniability in terms of, like they thought they killed a lot of them already but turns out not enough true, even even the, the force that went into the watchtower tower was a small one too.
Speaker 2:You know, I, I would have been like for me, I would, I would have been like, not like it's, you know, it's nice and all, but I'm gonna like keep my head up until, like, the sun comes up. You know, I'm gonna be like scanny, I, I just wouldn't trust it. Like it's. Just, you know, like, and even galadriel knows, like you know, like the, the best way to to defeat an orc is by outsmarting them and like that's what. Like they were that that that whole thing was like just a setup, like you know, like they're like, oh, okay, so you're gonna mess with us at the watchtower. Okay, like to, the villagers might have, might not have known, but like meta knowledge, like I, like I just I knew it. I was just like dude that there, there's no way that they finished them off, but it was crazy because they really like backed them into into a corner and like I thought some major characters were gonna die. I thought braun was done, I thought she was out.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh man, she's see, I I kind of just assumed she had plot armor, just because there's so few named characters that we're following currently. So I I assumed she was gonna be fine. Turns out, at least for now she is fine. But let's talk a little bit about galadriel and her plight in Numenor and you know, getting those that army out of Numenor, because I'm a little confused. You know like it seems like sometimes people want to help her and then sometimes people don't, and then when they do, other people get mad, and when they don't, other people get mad. So I'm really confused. So my big thing is is sealed or sister? She seems like she's on the same wavelength as a seal door and her father for the most part. But then when they decide to help the elf get out of numenor, she's like the biggest named person who's like trying to get them to stop yeah like don't do it, don't do it, but like we don't have a reason for her to like there.
Speaker 1:It just seemed like a weird character choice, like why wouldn't you want um?
Speaker 2:probably for selfish reasons, like she doesn't want her. Her father and her brother to go to some distant land to possibly die, which, like you know for I mean obviously for now, we think that is sealed or is dead.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's got to be dead I mean, we saw it, we, you know he got.
Speaker 2:You know he got um. You know, lord of the rings has, you know, like further into the, a little bit further into the future.
Speaker 3:You know there's other plans for that, but um guys, guys, I can't keep it safe, I can't keep it secret. He sealed, there's gonna live. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry rich, dang it rich.
Speaker 2:We told you to keep it secret. Um, you know, what really blew me away was the whole mount doom scene okay, hold on, we gotta get to that.
Speaker 1:I feel like we have to, we have, we have to age our way back, because that is a really fantastic scene. Um, but I want to. I still want to talk about like one specific thing with galadriel and numenor okay that, like that, leads into the mount doom scene.
Speaker 1:So we'll get there for sure. But how do I even like express this? Um? So what are the odds that the clues that she's been hunting down for hundreds of years, that have been subtly hinting at the Southlands all along being Sauron's target, just so happen to fall into place at the exact right time to get the Numenoreans to that village as it's about to be destroyed by those orcs Hundreds of years? Like she finally figured it out and like it was like just in time to help the south. That was like I. I think that's one of those moments where, like the, the timeline compression makes things a little illogical for me oh okay, like, like it.
Speaker 2:It was a little wild because like they were still on ships when all this stuff was happening right and we don't actually like.
Speaker 1:How did she know that there was an immediate threat in the southlands, besides the fact that she saw the, the sigil of, you know, the, the, the mark of the southlands, which has existed, you know, in various spots around middle earth for a couple hundred years, according to the show? Why, why, like, all of a sudden, is it just like imperative to get there at this very moment, with that army, to stop this?
Speaker 2:they. Probably was there something I missed from trail of orcs like I'm assuming that they're that like they didn't send the whole force into the into the no also. They didn't there still was like a lot more of them, you know I mean, I mean rich.
Speaker 1:You've seen it a couple times at this point. Is there anything dick like? Is there something I missed where galadriel realized that this was going to happen right at this very moment?
Speaker 3:I don't think so at all. I think she was just convinced that they had to go to the. The southlands were in danger. What didn't how? I almost want to say that halbron made her think that that was going to be a target yeah, he did he.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's that's like, that's his story, is that he?
Speaker 3:like I think she still believes that part of the story. Right, right, she still seems to be, you know, like she. She's kind of her brain is addled, like she can't really kind of separate fact from fiction when it comes to, when it comes to him at this point, and she, she seems to, I think. I think she's still on that hunch.
Speaker 3:I don't recall anything that like there's nothing presented to us as the audience okay I don't believe that indicates that she has some sort of definitive knowledge that she should be there at that place, like like a pre-ordained uh, time and date or anything like that. She has some sort of Definitive knowledge that she should be there At that place Like a preordained?
Speaker 2:time and date or anything like that. She just she saw it with her alpha eyes.
Speaker 3:I don't think she looked at the Palantir or anything that would have been crazy Like that.
Speaker 2:They actually could have used that scene To actually To kind of drive that you know.
Speaker 3:I think that would have been an interesting kind of approach to take. But no, it seems that I remember correctly she's just kind of going on this, this idea that she, you know, yeah so she's
Speaker 2:been going on hunches, the whole season, you know no, and that's that's true.
Speaker 1:But like have we? Is it like wrong? Wrong to think of this as a contrived moment to get these two groups of people together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one of my favorite movies of all time is End of Days with Arnold Schwarzenegger, where he fights the devil and one time somebody had something carved onto their body. It said Christ in New York. And he goes let's search the databases, maybe it's chris in new york or christine york. And then it just stops on her license and like that's, that's the person, that that's the person they're looking for.
Speaker 3:Oh my god he he broke the code in two seconds, like it was just immediate, and it reminded me kind of kind of like of that, like just that, that kismet of like whoa, what great timing. I'm glad you know it happens in shows all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it does. It, does I? I'd like to think that's a rings of power thing and not a tolkien thing, if that makes sense like yeah, I mean, you know, listen, gandalf, right, I mean, but see, she's not a wizard.
Speaker 3:Wizards arrive when they're meant to be there, exactly, so you can look to the, to the sun, you know yeah I know that, that he's going to be there, but uh, you know these, these, uh, witches of the woods, they're, they're not as reliable so they do get there, they um.
Speaker 1:It's a great scene actually. The, the, you know, adar is basically kind of reveling in the defeat of the people of the southlands. He can't wait to just like gut everybody and be out and just like enact his plan. But then he, here, you can, you start to hear the, the hoofbeats while he's like in the inn and, uh, he goes outside and you see obviously the, the numenoreans coming, coming in force and they, they make quick work of them. That's a fantastic scene. Adar gets, gets away, he has what he presumes to be the, the sword thing, the key, and he doesn't um, and eventually like they, they get that back from him, they, they imprison him and all that. But did we ever see when Waldron got hold of the key, like the actual key?
Speaker 2:no, I don't, I don't think we got to, I don't think it showed him swipe it. But that was wild, that. I was like dude, like when, when theo opened up the, the rag to to like look at it, I thought I thought that, um, a rondeer had like kind of tricked him, just to like, just, I guess it was like, oh, just toss it and see, like I guess, like not to really look at it. But then I was like, wait, no, that wouldn't make sense. And then when it cut over to wall waldron, I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Like you know, for a snake for somebody to you know kind of do the old switcheroo, you know and uh, yeah, man, that was crazy.
Speaker 1:And then like how that that elven watchtower was kind of like the center of everything to happen after that yeah, yeah, so the the watchtower was kind of holding back the floodgates of some dam, basically, and uh, waldron turns this, this key sword, this keyblade, almost uh, if you will dude.
Speaker 2:I was waiting for you to say that after you said key sword um the yeah, he turns the keyblade and it releases these floodwaters.
Speaker 1:And then we start to finally understand why these orcs, or uruks, have been digging throughout all of the Southlands, underneath these villages. Obviously, they need it. They need to do that because that's a way for them to travel by day. Nefarious purpose indeed there is, it's. It's a way for the water to travel to where it needs to be, so that it disrupts the flow of lava underneath the active volcano, or the dormant volcano, turning it active and um udun turns into mount doom as we know it, and it blows, and it's a fantastic way to end the episode yeah, yeah, like when, when I saw that it explodes, like, oh my gosh, I was like it turned.
Speaker 2:They turn it to to um mount vesuvius in like quick succession, dude and the.
Speaker 1:The next episode starts with basically like a mount vesuvius type, uh, or like a pompeii esque landscape where everyone is covered in ash and um dead bodies everywhere, deladriel somehow just kind of like eats the, eats the smoke as it comes towards her and she's totally fine I can't like too many people survived.
Speaker 2:I did there was some fire in that too somebody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I, I get it. You know the plot, armor, you know, like, all the characters, like, as as you said earlier, decoder, there are too many. There aren't too many named characters you know to to be pulling a ned stark over here, but uh, I don't know uh hey the blind, the queen regent turned blind yeah I mean, how is she the?
Speaker 3:oh okay. So I just don't understand. Why is she the only one to lose their eyesight in the dust? Does everybody else have? Do they have ski goggles? Is it like when a team wins the World Series?
Speaker 2:They all have dark vision.
Speaker 1:When she's helping, I might be misremembering, but when she's helping Isildur with that barn that's about to collapse or the building that's about, to collapse. I think some embers fly into her face. That's what it is. I think so.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you're right yeah.
Speaker 1:That's so. It is weird and it's plot contrivances, but it's all for the purpose of moving the story forward in the end, and is it?
Speaker 3:just to have her? Are we setting up that? She's becoming more dedicated and she's taking basically a, a leap of faith because of her eyesight. You know, like she, like now she really does have to be, you know, believer, because she can't see it for herself yeah maybe no.
Speaker 2:No, she's just gonna like she's becoming a miraluka, so she's gonna turn into. She's gonna use her, her force, sensitivity to to guide her way that's the old public joke there.
Speaker 1:I gotcha yeah. Um, I guess I wonder how this works now. Can she still receive visions from the palantir?
Speaker 3:that's like in her home, oh huh well, I always thought for my money that the visions were mental, were mental. Yeah, right, okay, I never. I never thought that you. You saw them like it's not. What is that a pensive, yeah?
Speaker 3:right, yeah you're right pensive would be. It actually for me would be problematic. Or pensive, right like you still need your eyes because you're just kind of being put in the other memory, or is it being put in your brain as well? Oh, this is quite a question. I'm gonna have to stop here, but I, you know, I think that for my money, I I always because the way that I want to say there were flashes and this just might be, you know, not Tolkien lore, but more Jackson lore. But I'm kind of really focusing on the scene where Pippin took the palantir and I feel like they were flashing in his brain. I don't know?
Speaker 1:No, you're right, you're right. It wasn't a visual that he was actually seeing and his eyes were rolling in the back of his head anyway, so he wasn't seeing anything through his actual vision.
Speaker 2:You are on the money.
Speaker 1:But when it comes to stuff like the One Ring, when Frodo puts that on, he actually sees the unseen world Like that's a visual element, instead of like the palantir, which is a mind element. So I wonder if, like that's going to be her new thing. It's just like you know, just walking around with plants here. Maybe that'll help her see a little bit? I doubt it obviously that's not gonna happen but it'd be great.
Speaker 3:Like she holds it and like she just misses like a barrel that's in the middle of, like the a road, like she saw into the future.
Speaker 1:It's her seeing eye exactly she.
Speaker 2:She uses it for, um you know to, to navigate kind of like, like daredevil a little bit it's how she crosses roads.
Speaker 1:Let's talk a little bit about the stranger with the harfoots.
Speaker 2:Yes, the the more and more we spend with the harfoots. I love those characters so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm starting to get that as well. I think they were kind of annoying me at the first couple episodes.
Speaker 2:You didn't like their chant, I did talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1:I didn't like the chant, but I do really appreciate the heart that they were given, that the that they were given their sense of community, which is, you know, essential for, like the, the hobbits of the shire to, you know, eventually take on and there is a sense of adventure with them that is kind of stifled because it's not supposed to be something that they are known for, which is also something, uh, it's a, it's a trait of the hobbits they're not known for adventure, they're not known for stepping out Of what they consider their norm. But, just like Frodo and Bilbo Before him, it seems like Nori is going down Her own little path, where now she, by the end of the season, she's traveling with the stranger to uh rune and her people like support it.
Speaker 2:They're like, yeah, go. Like we'll miss you, but go ahead, whereas like the hobbits, they're like you're going to get out of here.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, the hobbits have have like grown to a place where they've become prideful of, yeah, their peace.
Speaker 2:You know they're, they're like, you know like an adventure, like why would you want to do that? Like that's stupid. But like, yeah, the harfoots they. They really like you know, it seems like he could use your help and you know, I mean, and they honestly like help him out a lot, because there's this whole thing that happens between um, what are they? What are the? What are those people that show up that? What were they called?
Speaker 1:I don't remember the ones that were looking for sauron I think they were called the ascetic and I know that because I had my um my closed caption. Voice captioning yes, okay um, I have my voice captioning on and they introduced the characters as the ascetic.
Speaker 2:You know, talking to whom they believed is their lord sorrow right um, so that was a really interesting turn of events, uh so so we do get a bit more of an identity of who the stranger is. You know, they, they realize that there's like this whole fight that happens they, they, uh, after they they had captured him but the harfoots uh help him out, in that that binds literally, that he was bound up, and so they, they realize that he is not sauron, that he is actually one of the uh, was it ishtar, which is like a wizard, like he, he says wise one or wizard, I'm gonna be honest with you dude, I'm like like a hundred.
Speaker 2:I would say close to 199.9.
Speaker 1:Sure that that's gandalf, like I'm pretty sure it has to be at this point, yeah, especially at this point, like dude, come on, they've, they've done too much, ain't no way that that.
Speaker 2:Saruman or the other one? What was his name? The one that was in Hobbit?
Speaker 1:The Force one Radagast Radagast.
Speaker 2:Dude, ain't no way, ain't no way. And when he spoke to them, his personality, when it really showed his personality a lot more. I was like like dude, that is gandalf, that is gandalf. You know like how he, how gandalf, could be like a little silly, like when, when they were like trying to figure out what, what direction to go to, he's like you know what, I smell something sweet in that, in that direction. You know that that's like a very like gandalf thing to say that's.
Speaker 1:In my opinion, that's them basically telling us that that's dude come on, because that's something that he, you know, repeats to frodo in the minds of moria.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, yeah, that's right so dude, yeah, um, you know, I, I know that that that, like they rich probably knows from like season two, they probably like actually say whether he is, but I'm like, until I see that he's called some other name, I'm gonna call him gandalf. Like that is gonna be gandalf to me, because yeah, and and like I'm, I'm actually like blown away, like I feel like the actor really sells it pretty well too.
Speaker 1:He does a good job so I need to correct myself. I said that the group of people was called the ascetic, but no, that's just one of the characters. There's the ascetic, there's the dweller and and the nomad okay oh, they're the mystics, right yes, the mystics.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's the name of the group.
Speaker 3:That's there you go yeah okay, you know, just just to be devil's advocate for radagast. I just want to say one thing. Okay, we don't know how many psychedelic mushrooms radagast has eaten over the years. There's a complete you know. You know there's possible that this stranger eats tons and tons of psychedelic mushrooms as he's traveling with the harfoots and then becomes radagastabram well, see, see, the reason for my argument for it being gandalf is that it's literally what is hot.
Speaker 2:What happened at the end is literally what happens in the hobbit and in the lord of the rings a halfling follows off with gandalf.
Speaker 2:So you know gandalf, gandalf brings on bilbo's for to an adventure, brings on frodo's for an adventure, and so it's very fitting that here we go. Here's another halfling following gandalf on an adventure. So like that's, that's what my argument was. That's where I saw it. The personality was there. It was just so. I mean, you know, like look like I said you know we could be wrong, but like dude at this point I feel like people would get angry.
Speaker 1:People would be angry if we were wrong, basically because they people already probably already know.
Speaker 2:Like, let's be real, people know, um, but but at this point, like all signs point to it being gandalf, like it, just I don't know that. That's, that's what I'm saying um, rich do they?
Speaker 1:do they make it to rune or or wherever they're planning on going to in the second season? You could say yes or no. I don't think we know anything about it.
Speaker 3:Oh, there's not an easy answer. They definitely go on a journey. There is a journey to be had, a journey of self. I will give you a journey of self-discovery for, for, for both characters interesting.
Speaker 2:And look see that and that right there just cements that it's gandalf even more, because we all know that adventures with gandalf are never in a straight line, never in a straight line.
Speaker 3:I was I. I want to be clear.
Speaker 1:I am not saying anything other than both characters will find out more about themselves but so the mystics are so dead set on this being sauron until they realize oh wait, it's the other one, it's the ishtar. Um, we, we actually do get to meet sauron in this yes by the by the end of this season.
Speaker 2:We do.
Speaker 1:Although he's not named Sauron I don't think they named him as Sauron, but he says that he goes by many names. He's been around forever. He lists off of things, of ways that Galadriel has helped him achieve his goal, and then he just kind of disappears after he provides the knowledge of how to, you know, unite this ore and, uh you know, embed it into the ores that they have so that they can accentuate its power, which is a really interesting I think it's an interesting way of introducing the, the three rings of power to the elven kings, because I guess I didn't know I I don't know the story of, like how the rings were presented to each of the kings and like of the different people. I just kind of assumed they were gifts that you know, sauron knew what fashion sense each race liked and just like these guys are gonna like some something elegant but flashy, give them a nice stone. I'm assuming the dwarves are more like gold and bronze and just kind of like more rugged.
Speaker 1:No idea what the human's rings look like, but I think they have silver rings in the Lord of the Rings movies. But anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent. I just kind of assumed they were gifts, but I think it's actually a smarter idea. But anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent. I just kind of assumed they were gifts but it turned.
Speaker 2:I think it's actually a smarter idea and I don't know if this is a tolkien idea or if this is a rings of power idea but I think it's a smart idea to make the elves feel like they created the rings themselves, even though it was clearly halbrand and or sauron who put the idea into their heads yeah, like he yeah, like he it's pretty much like him playing a game of chess, you know, like him, just like, like he's controlling, pretty much like everything, like he, he was the one that and he you know just being very coy about it, like, oh, you know, just just like putting the suggestions, like he knows exactly what, what he's, what he's saying, and I know that you say that. You said that they didn't actually name how brand sauron, but he is sauron, like I mean, they gave they had the whole.
Speaker 2:They had the whole imagery where, like he, he, he puts into, he puts galadriel and kind of like that trance state and there's like that moment where it shows them back on that raft and they're both standing there and in the reflection of the water is sauron yeah, there's so many great visuals in all of the like throughout the entire show and then you see him at the ends like he's uh, trekking over to mount doom. And isn't it crazy? Like now you see the southlands, it's pretty much formed, and like it's becoming mordor.
Speaker 3:Now it should, and it said mordor on there yeah, that's that now I, because I there was. I remember watching it and at first I was like the southlands, that's gotta's got to be Mordor, that's got to be it. And it didn't say it. And then I felt so vindicated when the little location thing came up and it just Mordor. It warmed the cockles in my heart, so in my head.
Speaker 1:Whenever I picture Mordor on the map of Middle-earth, I guess I don't visualize it as a particularly southern. It is southern but I always see it as an eastern thing. It's on the east side of the map, so I didn't make that connection until so. I didn't make that connection until I mean, I kind of by the second or third episode, after they started talking a little bit about, like when they made the connection of, you know, the sign of the Southlands being Sauron's sign. That's when I was just like oh, oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I did think it was really funny, like I laughed when, instead of having adar say, uh, this isn't the southlands anymore, it's mordor, he just kind of smiles and I almost wonder if they weren't planning on naming it then. And there, because they didn't in the the script, you could tell they didn't do it in the script. They just kind of like left it open-ended. But I think someone on top of just like people watching this are really stupid. Let's just let them know. And then they had that text like the southlands burn away into mordor and it's like, yeah, like heavy metal, uh fonts, and it's just like whoa. So I laughed at that. I thought right, right.
Speaker 2:Well, for those of us that I've seen lord of the rings like 900 times, like when it showed what the southlands look like, and then like the whole icon, like it's like, oh okay, well, that's what's gonna, that's what's gonna become mordor, and I think it was really cool that we got to see Mordor before it became what it became and like how you know, in a way it's you know, you got to see, you know the Mount Doom like kind of becoming what it did, becoming Mount Doom and then it burning away the land, and it was really cool, like the visuals that we got and a a lot of nods to the future that we got from that. So it was really cool. I really enjoyed it. I thought that the confrontation between Halbrand and Adar was interesting, like you could tell, like he really, really wanted to take him out.
Speaker 1:Oh right, yeah, like do you remember me and Adar's? Like no, ew, but Halbrand obviously remembered him.
Speaker 3:But I don't think. I wonder if that's because Halbrand is a master of disguise.
Speaker 2:Sure, that's not his true form, right? That's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3:Like. I think it's a conceit for us, right that we're like oh yeah you know, uh, but I I I think that adar looks at him and really does not know who he is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:I I agree and I was, you know, I think I was at how brown was like checking to. He's like hey, do you remember me? And he's like no, and then he's like, OK, cool Coast is clear. Like you know, he kind of knew what was going to happen after that.
Speaker 2:I like when, when Galadriel was like you know what she kind of like realizes that that he's not who he is, and and she was like and and you know she, she was talking about that, that you know that the emblem that he had and and I like he's like pretty much like I told you I took it off a dead guy like he's, like I would he like he's kind of been like telling the truth. I mean, he's being deceitful, but he was still kind of telling the truth.
Speaker 1:But also that's a crazy leap to make on Galadriel's behalf. All of a sudden, I guess he does parrot a line. That is it Adar also mentions when it's like power over flesh or something like that. He repeats that line to Celebrimbor, who Celebrimbor repeats it to the king to try to get the king's approval to start working on that. And that's what gets Galadriel thinking that maybe I should check in on this guy and she goes into the annals of history. But it's still a crazy leap for Galadriel to make when this line of kings ended a thousand years ago. I wonder if this guy is the evil guy I've been looking for all along.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:That's TV.
Speaker 3:It's.
Speaker 2:TV. I think it's two.
Speaker 3:That's what I meant also. I got. Now I can talk a little bit more about it and being able to watch it again, right, like if you guys go back and just watch the season like as quick as you can, it's just fun to see the halbron parts, right and you're like, oh my god, come on, it's, it's, it's there. You know it's almost like the end of Usual Suspects, and then you can kind of go back and rewatch it and you kind of you're like, yeah, it was there the whole time, right, okay, yeah, I see what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:It's like after you've seen the main meat of the story, you start to notice all the small details.
Speaker 3:Kind of like in Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2:Like you start to notice all the small details, kind of like in Lord of the Rings, Like you start to notice all the small little things. So, yeah, no, I can totally get where you're coming from. Like it's like okay, now that I know that this guy is Sauron, let me look for the clues. And then they probably drop like little things here and there. But like you, know, maybe whether it was intentional or not, that that this is who he is.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like twin peaks, you know once you've watched the whole show and then go back and like re-watch it.
Speaker 2:Everything makes sense, you know, oh hey, oh, there's a plot twist. They, they cancel rings of power after season two. Oh, I would be so. It was like when heroes was canceled.
Speaker 3:I was just so angry that that that it was canceled because I just wanted the end. You know like I wanted, just so angry that that that it was canceled because I just wanted the end.
Speaker 1:You know like I wanted them to be able to finish it and it's yeah heroes is one of those things where, like it started so strong, then they they got hit probably like hardest by that 2008 writer's strike oh yeah, yeah, actually it just kind of meandered for three seasons until it fell out of rotation.
Speaker 2:No, you're right. I actually like I looked into it and they said that, yeah, what really like messed it up was that they had all these kind of like auxiliary, you know like replacement writers that were like trying to continue the story, and it just the quality just really died off from that yeah, it was basically they.
Speaker 1:They hired non-union, non-union writers um and they, they, they mucked it all up, basically so hopefully, uh, does that happen to the rings of power here?
Speaker 3:I need to see.
Speaker 1:I think we're forging I think with um, with the rings of power, they have an obvious show Bible, in the sense that they they know what's going to happen, like they have a five season plan. Supposedly they've had a five season plan since they announced the show back in what? 2016, 2017. So I expect them to have an outline of the big events that need to happen, and I think it's going to end with Isildur not being able to, you know, curse the ring into the fire.
Speaker 2:Hey, how do you know?
Speaker 1:that Just a hunch? I think it's a hunch.
Speaker 2:Okay, I was going to say Dakota, stop trying to tell everybody spoilers man.
Speaker 1:Here's what I think is the five season layout. Rich, you know, you can, you know, swat this away if I'm wrong. But this first season is the elves, the second season is giving the rings to the dwarves, the third season is men, fourth season is the one rings creation and the final season is the war of the ring oh, oh, that would be sick.
Speaker 3:The original War of the Ring. I don't think that would be a very educated, intelligent map that they might follow pretty closely to what you may be describing. Yeah, rich has a bit of a smirk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's got a smirk. So either I'm totally right or totally wrong. And what made me think that is they ended this season with the creation of the three rings, and then they had that. They turned the rings of power poem that Tolkien wrote for the creation of the rings into a song in the credits. And I'm just like, okay, first is the elves, then the dwarves, then the humans. Then we find out that there's one more ring to rule them all. And then what happens after that? Well, all the races they go and have at it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that would be how I would do it if I was running a show called the rings of power and I have to, you know, continually add new rings into each season that would that that would be sick to get the that like that war like actually on screen, because we we've gotten like glimpses of it but it's always like a callback, you know, in lord of the rings, but like to actually like visualize it like they got they.
Speaker 1:They really need to like go all out on that one, because and what a what a genius way for the jackson films to start. You know they they have that legend of the rings of power and then they show the outcome that happened 3,000 years ago and this whole trilogy is based on the fallout of what happens 3,000 years ago and how the people 3,000 years later have to deal with the mistakes made back in the day, back in the Rings of Power day. So yeah, I think that's a really fascinating thought and I really liked the end of the season.
Speaker 2:I liked it a lot more than the start of the season yeah, I'm, I'm interested in, I'm interested in seeing how elrond and isildur like eventually like kind of become friends, you know oh, another, another thing.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, isildur and and elrond need to become friends, that's true. But one thing that uh is mentioned is that galadriel has a husband at this point, kelleborn, whom we have met in, uh, the lord of the rings movie. So she believes that her husband is dead.
Speaker 2:Obviously he's still alive, um, so we'll, we'll see kelleborn at some point oh, and before we like kind of like leave it the whole Durin and Elrond thing with the Mithril. They need Mithril because the elves are dying off.
Speaker 1:Oh, we haven't talked about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That was really interesting Dude. I love Durin, I love his character so much.
Speaker 1:I do love the dwarf stuff tremendously because it's such a it's, in my opinion, the most interesting of the peoples of Middle-earth Because, like these are dudes who just like kind of stout small guys who live with huge beards in the darkness within mountains and like their entire goal is just to accumulate wealth for themselves. It's just, it's kind of funny, but it's it's also like really cool.
Speaker 2:so it's seeing how they develop that society within the show is fascinating to me and then I'm I'm wondering if you know if, uh, we're gonna get a glimpse, a sneak, or to get a sneak peek of something. I wonder if we're going to get it in Season 2.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the Balrog, that was crazy.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh heck, no, not the Balrog in the Mithril Mine. That's not the kind of pest you want to have in your mind.
Speaker 1:They dug too deep and too greedily and they awoke something in the I think that that's why the king was so adamant about keeping it closed.
Speaker 2:He knew that there was something in there oh, I like that because like why would the king be so hard? Like, like I know there's gotta be a reason to be that hard head he's like dude, I'm trying to save a whole race of people. Like why are you being like that? But, like you know, obviously he knows that there's something there. So he's like no, we want to keep this closed off, to keep this thing away from us yeah, rich, you were going to say something oh sorry when we yeah, earlier oh no, I just thought.
Speaker 3:I just think, uh like, just kind of touching on the, I think that the story is so well told in just season one from the dwarves that they're the most human and relatable.
Speaker 1:Hmm, okay yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I was being facetious last week when I was tongue in cheek saying that you know Elrond did nothing wrong and not going to visit Durin for 20 years. Oh yeah, yeah, saying that you know elrond did nothing wrong and not going to visit durin for 20 years.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely you know, but like it was in that moment, right, that's, that's the most human any of the characters have been. You know, uh, I don't think the numenorean that sorry, that was terrible. All the characters from numenor, uh, though they, they're to me still many.
Speaker 1:There's still caricatures yeah, it's weird, right, like I. I just I can't seem to get a grasp on, like, what I'm supposed to be feeling about these new menorians, because at this point they've they're more of a fantasy race than the elves like they're. They're more they're like a legendary human race that we're meeting for the first time, but they just kind of seem like people, even though we're supposed to believe that they're higher than normal man.
Speaker 2:It's, it's a little confusing, right, right like you know, in a, in a way like meeting, meeting one of them and, like you know the say like modern, modern day lord of the rings, the lord of the rings films is, like you know, seeing a unicorn.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh my gosh, like this man is from, like a civilization of dying people, like you know, like people you never see. And, uh, like aragorn is, like you know from, like a small little knit group of rangers. So, um, yeah, no, you're right, it is like a legendary group of people, because the elves are very much still there in lord of the rings and so are the dwarves and like, pretty much like every other creature is existent except for these individuals, I mean, which they probably down the line, you know, maybe become, maybe parts of them become, you know, like Rohan and Gondor, like you know, down the line, it's just they don't, you know it's just they don't keep to the ways like some of these, like smaller groups, do they don't keep to the ways like some of these, like smaller groups, do.
Speaker 1:I guess my issue, and I think rich's issue as well, isn't their, their lineage per se, but their, their lack of believable world building. Like I'm having a hard time understanding their socio-political structure, even though it's the most vast and beautiful thing that we see in the show is probably numenor and their. Their whole ecosystem kind of runs like like the stoic greek peoples, but the individual lives of the characters feel hollow yeah, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:No, you're right like is that what is?
Speaker 3:that what you're trying to get at rich yeah, and I mean, you know it's like I'm with a dead horse, but it I I really do feel as a as a member of the future right that I there are things that I watched and saw that made even those characters on the rewatch of season one not as hollow.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so you're saying that there's a little bit of fleshing out? That happens.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that fleshing out makes me go. Oh, you know what I see, so-and-so in a very now. I very now, now I get it you know, it's kind of that, kind of okay.
Speaker 1:It introduces the characters to a new light and yeah, and it just feels yeah it's almost.
Speaker 3:It's almost like if they would have, instead of done whatever eight episodes, right, if they do 12, I think you finish the season in a different way. You're like all right, you, but I get why they needed to kind of take a. You know, kind of take a pause, take a break. You know that you need something, but it's just weird, it's it? It almost feels like if numenor and because gladio goes to numenor, right, you don't, you can't delay that Numenorean storyline, right, you have to, kind of you can't just have her go to a random island, be like, oh, I'm just gonna be here and then leave real quick and nobody cares. And in having to have her in Numenor and I don't know if that's the Tolkien like path, right, for For me, the show right now is the canon for me. But if somehow you could have avoided Numenor and introduced it almost in the second season and fleshed it out more, I don't know. But I mean, it's just a question of pacing and how you like your storytelling.
Speaker 1:There were definite pacing issues this season and there was definitely contrivances that I still don't like, you know, I I still feel it's a little bit of a stretch that galadriel talked this. You know, nation state that has been, you know, on their own, for x number of uh centuries into crossing, crossing the, the ocean, to help this small town in the southlands. They, they, they saved all of 25 people. You know, that's really what they did, um, but I I understand that contrivances need to occur to get to move the plot along.
Speaker 1:And again there's the truncation of history within the second age into a single moment in time, which is the uh forging of the rings, which is what they're trying to do. You know, obviously, um, in tolkien's history this is elapsing, like some of these events are elapsing over the course of centuries and millennia, but they don't have that kind of time in this show. They're just bringing all the good stuff and throwing it into like one show that's happening at this single moment. Basically, do you guys have any final thoughts for our uh second episode of the rings of power watch?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, I mean this, this cap, this is capping off season one. So so we're done with season one. It I I'm actually glad that that we did these episodes because it really gave me the opportunity to go and watch this and, honestly, by the end it it was definitely worth the watch. Like I, I really did enjoy this. Like, like you said, like I wasn't really grabbed in those like first handful, first handful of episodes. But you know, I know you said by season seven I would say, um, the build-up towards the end of season, uh, that season, uh episode. I know you said by episode seven, it's what like really like grabbed you but like the build-up towards the end of episode five and then like episode like really what? Like I was like, oh my gosh, like it. It, it really like got me from then on. So, yeah, no, it was good, I liked it rich.
Speaker 1:What are? What are your thoughts on the uh, the end of the season and, I guess, the season as a whole?
Speaker 3:so I just think that the more time spent with the characters and the show, the more I really enjoy it. I, you know, one of my kind of. I think one of the things that I was a little bit angry about and also it felt like I was watching it alone. Uh, I, there wasn't so much buzz, there was nobody at work that I could bug and talk to about it, so I wasn't having there was no other. I think nobody else was excited, at least in my circle, my small bubble, my circle, you know, and that that decreased it. You know, I feel like a lot. I was a little angry. I, I don't really like that. They ran two storylines of who's this guy and you know.
Speaker 3:I know we've got one answer yeah, but that's why, like even the Southlands, turning to Mordor, it was also vindicating, because it was like, yes, I wanted answers, like I just want some more. It's about history, right, wanted answers, like I just want some more. It's about history, right, it's about something that we know essentially how most of this is going to go. So in many ways, what I want to see is the interplay of the characters, the emotion of the scene, the kind of epic battles right, like that should be what's happening here, and I don't like the vagary whodunits you know it would be. I don't know, I'm trying, let me pick a leader who's not offensive. I don't know. You're watching some. You're watching some movie about the history of Italy and there's a guy named Tony, mama Luke, I don't know and then you later find out that you, you know he's actually Benito Mussolini.
Speaker 2:You know like plot twist.
Speaker 3:The guy who you thought was nice making ice cream is really gonna be the leader of the black shirt rebel, you know.
Speaker 1:Tony.
Speaker 3:Mameluke so yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know, that was the worst real Italian name that I've ever thought of. I don't know why, uh, but it's, it was just kind of that. I I'm I don't think I'm, particularly as a consumer, a huge fan of that, you know. I because and I think part of it is my I want to learn more about the characters that I know about. So now, when you spend eight episodes obfuscating that, in a way it I think it took away from it. So that's why, like halbron's performance is so great throughout. When you know that he's definitely sauron, because it's like, oh my god, he was literally telling them the entire time, you know it's you kind of enjoy it more yeah.
Speaker 1:so, anthony, I'm pretty sure you knew that halbron Sauron as well. I did personally, like I just knew from social media that this character was Sauron.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had heard the name like kind of thrown around and I was kind of like, oh, you know, is this the guy. But like the thing is that like it doesn't really matter without the context of of like actually watching it, you know it yeah, that's a really good point, because throughout it I was just like I don't really get this guy's plot.
Speaker 1:I don't get like if he's sauron, I don't really understand why he's doing all this. But then it finally all comes together.
Speaker 1:He's just manipulating people to eventually get the the ends result that he wants yeah thank you guys so much for listening to us here for our 101st episode of project ecology. The next episode, the third part of our rings of power thon, which will cover the first four episodes of season two of the lord of the rings, the rings of power, will not be next week, it'll be the following week. Whether there will be a release next week we're not entirely sure, but both Anthony and I have stuff going on, so we're going to figure that out. But again, thanks so much for listening. If you want to check us out on any of our socials, you can find all that in the show notes down below and, uh, if you're, if you know, however, you're, listening allows you to provide a, a review of sorts. Um, anthony, uh, I, I think you said you wanted what?
Speaker 1:five, five I want, I want a five stars I want a juicy, medium, rare five star review yes, like extremely juicy, like you know, when you, when you keep mcdonald's fries in a bag for too long and they're just soggy that's like, that's so bad, like, that's like, like, at that point I'm putting like, I'm putting one star you know, if we're, if we're getting juicy, as if juicy is soggy.
Speaker 1:Mcdonald's fries that you left in your car for a day like that, oh yeah, okay, let's, uh, let's, let's stick to uh like rare steaks for you, for for your review I was like we're trying to get five stars, not negative five stars okay uh, all right, guys. Um, on this podcast we do not say goodbye, we say namadie. It means more than just farewell, it means go towards goodness we also end the podcast with the wolverine.
Speaker 2:Bye guys, bye.
