Project Geekology
Embark on an epic journey with Anthony and Dakota as they delve into the vast realms of geek culture, from cherished classics to cutting-edge creations. Join us for an exhilarating adventure of exploration and nostalgia, as we unearth hidden gems and reminisce about the moments that have shaped us. Welcome to the ultimate celebration of all things geeky!
Project Geekology
The Acolyte
What happens when a beloved Star Wars series gets the axe after an expensive first season? On this week's episode of Project Geekology, Dakota and Anthony tackle the shocking cancellation of "The Acolyte" and what it means for devoted fans. We'll also reminisce about Anthony's annual tradition of rewatching "The Lord of the Rings," while diving into our latest gaming adventures, including his first impressions of Overwatch's new hero Juno and a nostalgic revisit to "Pokemon Yellow" on his classic 3DS.
Our journey continues as we passionately explore the intricate timelines of the Avatar and MCU universes. With newfound excitement, we discuss the joy of getting to read the Avatar graphic novels. We'll bring you up to speed on post-series developments and connections to "The Legend of Korra," while celebrating "The Reckoning of Roku," where we follow Roku's journey as a young avatar, featuring familiar faces like Monk Gyatso. Our admiration for "Avatar: The Last Airbender" and its storytelling prowess shines through as we compare it to the best of anime.
We'll also delve into the extensive Star Wars TV series roster, ranking recent hits and misses from "The Mandalorian" to "Obi-Wan Kenobi" and "The Book of Boba Fett." Hear our thoughts on the standout series "Andor," and insightful critiques of "The Acolyte," where we discuss everything from character returns to canon controversies and lightsaber-resistant materials. Join us for an episode brimming with geeky goodness and thoughtful discussions.
Twitter handles:
Project Geekology: https://twitter.com/pgeekology
Anthony's Twitter: https://twitter.com/odysseyswow
Dakota's Twitter: https://twitter.com/geekritique_dak
Instagram:
https://instagram.com/projectgeekology?igshid=1v0sits7ipq9y
Geekritique (Dakota):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBwciIqOoHwIx_uXtYTSEbA
Every Time THE ACOLYTE Broke Canon (...or didn’t?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL1C_OWrp5c&t
Twitch (Anthony):
https://www.twitch.tv/odysseywow
How's it going, guys? Welcome back to Project Geekology. My name is Dakota. I'm joined, as always, with the Acolyte Anthony.
Speaker 2:I mean, I kind of like that, the Acolyte Anthony.
Speaker 1:We're actually covering the Acolyte this week and it's a very interesting week to cover the Acolyte. We had this planned for weeks in advance. We did not know that this was going to be the week that they canceled a second season of the show, so that will be a fun thing to discuss. Uh, bittersweet obvious. Well, it's not even sweet to some people. It may be sweet.
Speaker 1:To me it's not that sweet, but it we'll get over, we'll get into all that bitter for some, sweet for others yes, it'll be fun to talk about the show, so I guess that is sweet, but not sweet because of the timing of the cancellation. But, uh, yeah, so that'll. That'll make the discussion a little bit more interesting. But before we get into any of that, anthony, what have you been up to this past week?
Speaker 2:um well, I mean obviously preparing for this episode, but right now I'm in the midst of my annual re-watching of the Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1:Really Okay. I was actually. I was thinking about starting that up again. It feels like the right time.
Speaker 2:I don't know, like it. Just it felt like the time to watch it. I mean I always, you know, I think that there's every once in a while like I may miss a year that I don't watch it, but Every once in a while I may miss a year that I don't watch it, but I just felt like I really wanted to watch it. I mean, a couple of years back, you and I really dived into those movies.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, dude, if you guys if you are interested in hearing us talk about those movies for hours on end, we have like a podcast that is basically as long, like a series of podcasts. It's six separate podcasts. We broke each movie up into two podcasts and combined they're about the length of the extended editions. So if you are in need of just a discussion, a gushing of just fan love for the lord of the rings trilogy uh, specifically the extended editions you can find that here on the podcast. Please go listen to it. Um, we had a lot of fun with those yeah, we really did.
Speaker 2:I, I I still think that it was a good idea for us to break up those movies into two episodes. I mean, yeah, the way that that we discussed them was like very drawn out, but I do feel like it's there's so much about those films to talk about that you have to like break down those films. And it's funny that you that you mentioned that, because I think that somebody today listened to one of our our, uh, lord of the rings episodes, fellowship of the ring, part two. All right, shout out to you shout out to you apt timing, you know yeah, but yeah
Speaker 2:yeah, so I've been, I've been watching that. I hopped on, I hopped back onto overwatch because they released a new hero this week. Uh, it's a new support hero named Juno. She was the one that was codenamed Space Ranger, like back was it late last year and so, yeah, so it's been interesting being able to try her out. And you know, like I said, like I always love Overwatch, but I'm in a time right now where I don't play it as much. So, yeah, it's a big. So usually it takes like something big, like maybe an event or a new hero, for me to want to go back in and try it out. And you know, who knows, Maybe after playing a little bit of this I'll be, you know, I'll hit a period of time where I feel like playing a little bit.
Speaker 1:But right, you'll get back into the swing of it.
Speaker 2:Right, right. But well, you know, remember, I had been playing some, some Elden Ring, and, oh, dude, I found my old 3DS. So that's so. I had sent Dakota a picture of me playing Pokemon. It was Pokemon Yellow that I was playing and I happened I had it on my, my 3ds. Uh, the, um, the virtual console, and so, yeah, I was playing that dude, that that was that. That's like a blast from the from the past dude an actual throwback yeah, yeah, although I didn't have yellow back then, I had red back then.
Speaker 1:Okay yellow is like the, the crystal of that era right, that's the one that came out that I think would had like color yeah, yeah, it has it's.
Speaker 2:It's so weird. It's like a lot of it doesn't have color like the background has, like you know, maybe some like a tint, and then there's some pokemon that have that have color right, like pikachu kind of has some color, depending on, like, what perspective you're seeing him from, and it's it's very limited, but you know, back back when that game came out in the late 90s.
Speaker 1:That was, you know, super high tech, because all the games prior to that for handheld stuff were black and white.
Speaker 2:Right, this was the first like real foray into a color, because this was part of this was the, this was pokemon's um entry into the game boy color, uh, space, you know right, right, whereas, like pokemon, red and and blue and I think yellow too, like all those like had released, unlike the, the original game boy, there's like, yeah, like the black and white era, fat boy, gray game boy and I think that yeah, yeah, when, when you played yellow on the game boy color or something like that, that it showed color it's, yeah, it's. It was an interesting era. Like just hearing the old like soundtrack it kind of it kind of brought me back, man, I really do think that you and I should do an episode covering pokemon, because pokemon was such a huge part of our youth that yugioh also yugioh was hugely part of our youth, that Yu-Gi-Oh also Yu-Gi-Oh was hugely part of our youth, and so I definitely would love to take a dive into into those at some point. But yeah, man it, it was really cool, like being able to do that, play my old uh 3ds.
Speaker 2:I was messing around with some of the old Fire Emblem games that that I had on there Fire, with some of the old Fire Emblem games that I had on there. Fire Emblem Awakening was the one that really, like I knew about Fire Emblem from the years before, but I didn't really take the dive until Awakening, and that's what got me into that series. I had always played games like that, like Final Fantasy, tactics and some others, but not really Final Fantasy Tactics was so good yeah, dude.
Speaker 2:I loved Tactics so much. Such a good game um, but yeah, man, so so just a lot of nerding out, gaming, uh, prepping for this. Uh, dude, we got the trailer for war.
Speaker 1:War, the rohirrim looks so good man I actually have not watched it looks so good, I cannot wait, all right I'm gonna, I'm gonna check it out after this can't wait um yeah, yeah, I'm excited for that, so very excited for that actually seeing that that trailer was like really what prompted me to come back and watch lord of the rings.
Speaker 2:That was the catalyst, yeah yeah, I was like you know what man it's been a while, you know and and so, like you know, when I got to two towers, I was like, okay, yeah, like it it's really got me to that mindset because you know it's really about Rohan and you know the Rohirrim, so the two towers is what focuses mostly on them, you know. So, so, yeah, that that I'm pretty excited about that. But yeah, man, um, enough about me. What have you been up to?
Speaker 1:yeah, um, I've been thinking about doing a lord of the rings marathon again. I for different reasons. Well, I mean, I I saw that they wore the rahiram trailer had come out and some of the screenshots look pretty cool, so I was just like that kind of got me interested in revisiting the films, but also the rings of power. Season two is coming out soon and I the trailer for that did look good. I haven't finished the first season of that, so I'm almost like I want to kind of watch that whole season again, because I only watched the first five episodes or so.
Speaker 1:It was coming out at the same time as House of the Dragon, and House of the Dragon was such a far superior show, in my opinion, in terms of just writing, so I was just like it. It fell by the wayside for me and, yeah, I want to give it another chance and check out season two. But but yeah, I was just talking to to jen, my wife, uh, about how you know we really should jump into lord of the rings soon I never.
Speaker 2:I never finished war uh rings of power either.
Speaker 1:I never got to finish that because yeah, yeah, I think I think you want to do an episode on it. Let's do an episode on it yeah, we could once we catch up with everything that we have promised you guys yeah, which honestly we're.
Speaker 2:We're coming to a head on that anyway.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think we just have deadpool and wol Wolverine at this point that like we have, like, definitely signed on to. But yeah, what else have I been up to? Jen, jen, my wife has started rewatching Game of Thrones and I've been kind of watching over my shoulder while I do other things. You know, I've seen it so many times, I know what's going on, but she just got to the season finale of the first season oh, great stuff dude that the whole episode 9, episode 10 is just top tier why?
Speaker 2:why can't sean bean ever survive?
Speaker 1:the first of anything oh my gosh, I don't know, man, but while she was doing that, I've been reading the avatar graphic novels. So the first avatar series had six trilogies of graphic novels. So there's the promise, the search, the rift, smoke and shadow, north and south and imbalance, and each of those graphic novels were trilogies of graphic novels and that they've been kind of combined into like library editions of those graphic novels were trilogies of graphic novels and they've been kind of combined into library editions of those omnibus books. But yeah, so I read all of those, I read a couple others and I think I've read, by my count, 21 graphic novels within the Avatar universe since last we spoke and I'm really enjoying it. I'm making sure I keep all my timeline notes in order because eventually I do want to make an avatar timeline. Um, whether that's before or after my mcu timeline, we shall see. But, um, but yeah, I'm really I'm I'm full on with that. So I'm really excited about that and that's pretty much what I've been up to this past week.
Speaker 1:A lot of reading, but it's been really fun. A lot of those graphic novels I have not read before. They've just been sitting on my shelf gathering dust. I know I've read the Promise and a little bit of the Search, but now that I've actually gone past that point and it's a couple years now after the events of the avatar series, seeing the world develop and start to take shape as it would eventually come to to be in the legend of korra, it's really interesting seeing how team avatar and and you know, like ang and the rest of his team, are instrumental in all the changes that basically lead up to the era of Korra. So I'm really, really pleased about that.
Speaker 2:I really need to hop onto the graphic novels and the novels of Avatar, because I always say that Avatar is probably my favorite cartoon, mostly because of the story, and I mean the story and just the world and everything about it. Don't get me wrong a lot of these other cartoons that we grew up with I'll always love them. I'll always. They'll always be nostalgic to me, I'll always want to revisit them in some kind of way. But when it comes to to the world that was built and the story that was built and the story that was told, avatar will always be my favorite cartoon and it gets so close To being an anime. It's like very. It's one of those ones that are it's a cartoon that's accepted by the anime community. They're like you are not an anime, but you know what, you're good.
Speaker 1:It's American financed and written, but korean animated, so it's not. It's not technically a japanese animation, so it can't be anime, but it was definitely emulating that vibe right and it definitely meets the highs of many of those uh you know anime in terms of storytelling and in many ways it surpasses it. But right, um yeah, so I I totally agree with that, but I need to hop on to those.
Speaker 1:Onto the books, man, the books are great, yeah the books are great, um, the recent one that came out, the reckoning of roku. I think you'll really like that one. It's just a really solid read. It's a really interesting corner of the avatar universe and seeing how roku, uh, you know, begins, you know, like by the time the avatar story begins in in the last airbender, roku is the previous avatar. He's lived a full life. He's, you know, he's a wizened old man who is ang's mentor. And this he's a wizened old man who is Aang's mentor. And this he's just a 16 year old kid who barely believes that he's the avatar to begin with. You know like, so, seeing him come to, you know, understand his, uh, his abilities, uh, try to figure out who his friends are and all that, it's really it's a really good read, um, and Monk Gyatso is in it too, so that's pretty fun monk yatso being ang's uh airbending, uh trainer back, you know, before the the hundred year war began, yeah, so really cool boy.
Speaker 1:That was his boy. Uh, let's talk a little bit about star wars for the rest of the podcast. How about that?
Speaker 2:oh, there's gonna be a little bit or a lot of it, probably a little of a lot. Um, yes, man the acolyte, huh the acolyte, I. I feel like we picked such a an interesting time to to record this like it's new, but it's still generating a lot of buzz, you know and it's.
Speaker 1:It's such a bizarre kind of buzz too and I I understand the reasons behind them canceling the show. I do. I don't like that, you know. I feel like no show should go um with just one season, you know, if it doesn't make it past the second season, it, you know you gave it your best shot, the the audience just isn't there, whatever. But the fact that it's canceled after the first season feels reactionary, um, and yeah, it was a very expensive show.
Speaker 2:It was definitely reactionary because I think that directly, directly, directly after the Acolyte was finished up, didn't they talk, didn't they say, oh yeah, there's going to be a second season.
Speaker 1:They were. Yeah, I mean the, the directors, the writers, they were all kind of gung ho for it. It was it's all a matter of you know whether Disney is going to pick it up for a second season or not. They never actually committed to it on paper. Or you know whether disney is going to pick it up for a second season or not. They never actually committed to it on paper. Or you know, like, whatever they basically needed to to get enough buzz for there to be a second season. But yeah, so here we are.
Speaker 1:It was a very expensive series. Um, it cost about the. It cost about the same as, like the prequels did in terms of inflation, or a single prequel. So comparatively, if you want to go there, the Phantom Menace costs $115 million to produce. The Acolyte costs $180 million to produce. But if you adjust for inflation, the Phantom Menace today would cost about 214 million dollars to produce.
Speaker 1:So technically, in terms of uh, the spending power, the phantom menace had more money to work with than the acolyte. But still, the acolyte is a very exorbitantly expensive tv show. Most tv shows don't crack a hundred thousand or a hundred million and this was double that. So I understand, you know, like if they can't find a way to budget that for a second season and cut out, you know, most of that fat in terms of spending power.
Speaker 1:I understand that they don't want to go with a second season, but knowing that all they need to do is say you have a limit of 50 million dollars this season, do with, do with it what you will, and I'm sure they would. I'm sure they would be fine because you know they'd probably, instead of making sets, they'd jump over to the volume you know and they would use and utilize that. Uh, because the. The big issue with the acolyte is they made massive, massive sets. The the forest planet for episodes uh, four and five, that was. That was one huge set. Like, apparently, like the, the actors were getting lost in the set because they they had built so much so yeah, but that's cool though, like I mean no, it is cool, it is really cool.
Speaker 1:Like I, I would love to have visited that and seen like how how much detail went into everything that's probably why those some of those were were the stronger episodes of the season, especially five um.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that that's. Yeah, I could tell that some of it had some practicality. I just didn't understand the scale of it. But that's insane that it's large enough for you to get lost in.
Speaker 1:Yes, they built a literal forest. Dude, they had maps. They had maps of the set.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, they had maps of the different rooms in the set.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm telling you.
Speaker 2:I'm telling the truth here, it's over there. They, it was like they. They built their own like mini theme park, you know yeah, uh, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Last, last last, we saw daphne keen. She was in section b.
Speaker 2:Let's go find her oh man, they were getting lost on the show. When they were lost, it was them the actors actually lost yeah, yeah um but yeah, so like, like I'm saying I I understand 180 million.
Speaker 1:If you don't have the audience, you can't really continue that right, yeah, but if you budget the second season, you can definitely you know, at least finish the story, you know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I guess the way that they're probably going to do that is what like a novel, graphic novel, something, yeah, so there's already there's already several prequel novels and comics in the works.
Speaker 1:There's going to be a kelnaka graphic or a kelnaka one-shot comic book that's coming out in a month. There is a young adult comic that features jackie and yord, like on an adventure or something, early next year and then, like mid next year, there's a vernest vernestra row and um master indara comic that's set 20 years before the acolyte.
Speaker 2:So we're going to get plenty of acolyte content, um, with those characters it's so crazy that yeah, we can continue that through, uh like past that point, and I think that's ultimately what's going to happen it's so crazy that uh, vernesha roe, you know she was in this show and then you hear her being talked about and stuff and popping up in the the books, like before that yes, yeah, so you're.
Speaker 1:You're reading the rising storm right now. I don't know if she's in it. She might. She might make a small appearance they talk about her.
Speaker 2:They talk about her.
Speaker 1:She's somebody's apprentice, she is the former apprentice of stellan geos that's what it is. Yes, yes, yes yeah, and she's, uh, she's one of the primary characters in the junior novels. You know, like she's, she's like the lead jedi knight of of those junior novels and she's notable for being like the youngest jedi knight in living memory, basically, but anyway yeah.
Speaker 1:So seeing characters like Vernestra pop up again was interesting. We didn't have any frame of reference prior to this as to how long Mary Allens live, mary Allens being her species. She's a Mary Allen, and now we know that they live well, past 100 years, because she looks like she's maybe in her 40s in terms of human years. But, this is over 100 years. She's at least 116 years old by the time this show takes place. So, yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:What's also interesting is that they brought back characters from the prequels Charac characters that a lot of people had issues with uh specifically kiari mundi, right, right, okay, so I'm, I'm I'm actually glad that you brought that up, so you made and we'll, we'll put it into the show notes. But you made an episode about a lot of gripes about canon breaking stuff and Ki-Adi Moondi is one of those those gripes. Did you want to kind of go over a little bit of some of those gripes that that a lot of these people had and like what your answer? Not all of them, obviously.
Speaker 2:If people, if you want to know, if you want to learn more about that, watch the video. It'll be in the show notes. If you want to learn more about that, watch the video. It'll be in the show notes. But let's talk, let's talk about kiati mundi and some of the the bigger things that that people were very it. It wasn't even like. I don't even think that they were nitpicking it for the sake of that. They were really worried about it being canon. I think that they were nitpicking it just because, right off the rip, they decided that they didn't like the show well, that's ultimately the case.
Speaker 1:You know like you can go back to any of these, like youtubers uh, like the fandom menace people's channels and look up the acolyte. They've been talking crap about this series since it was announced years ago, so there's precedent. They already determined in their head this is the show that we're going to go after when it comes out. This is the show that we're going to make active money on, because it fits our woke narrative that Disney's trying to push Whatever. When it comes to Ki-Adi-Mundi, and as far as me, going through some of the points that I made in my video the video being 20 times that people thought the acolyte broke canon, um, and actually didn't and I kind of break down how, in lore, it totally works everything that they're saying, um, as far as kiari mundi goes, oh well, I don't plan to like go over everything right, right, right, yeah, no, no, you don't have.
Speaker 2:If it comes up.
Speaker 1:If it comes up naturally in the conversation, like over the next hour I'll hour, I'll touch on my rationale for certain things, but you brought up what my thoughts are, with Ki-Adi-Mundi being present, so it's a big issue, but it's not at all. At the same time you have Ki-Adi-Mundi in the Phantom Menace, which takes place in 32 BBY, 32 years before the Battle of Yavin, and he claims that the Sith have been extinct for a millennium. Obviously he's wrong. We know that he's wrong because the Sith have existed. You know they're in hiding, they have been in hiding for millennia, basically, and you know the Phantom menace is their, you know coming out party. You know they're, they're ready to show the world that they're still here. And that's when darth maul and, you know, palpatine make their first moves, uh, towards destabilizing the republic right so we have?
Speaker 1:we have that knowledge. We have the knowledge that the jedi at least some jedi thought that they were extinct. But you also have to balance that with they obviously weren't, because you know they've been around, so likely over the course of a thousand years they have met jedi. At some points, you know they have been hiding in plain sight. They're good at masking their uh, you know dark side intentions and stuff, but they, for whatever reason, uh, have not been like, truly discovered. And this is one of those instances in the acolyte where, like, they almost got discovered. Obviously we find, we find that nobody survives and knows that the sith are continuing past this point, except for maybe vernestra and maybe yoda. So when it comes to kiarii's presence, one of the big issues was that in Legends, which is a different continuity than the canon that we now have, legends being like the accepted canon before Disney bought it right um kiari mundi was only around 60 years old during the time of the phantom menace.
Speaker 1:That obviously doesn't work if this show is 100 years before the phantom menace. In 132 bby, you know you, you can make a whole bunch of. You know like, well, in canon they don't have any real basis for how long this character can live. You know, like we, we don't know how old syrians that's his race live. Uh, so that was. It was kind of like an interesting discussion in in my video, like um in terms of all that, and and and.
Speaker 2:Even then, even within the accepted canon, they had changed it a couple times like the year that he was born canon. They had changed it a couple of times like the year that he was born. Like right they had shifted it like a couple of years, right, it's so. They weren't even sure back then, like before Disney bought it. And you know, and and I mean honestly at the end of the day we are talking about fictional individuals, like nothing is set in stone.
Speaker 1:A lot can be changed, right? Yeah, and he's a side character, he's, he's literally tertiary, like he's not a, he's not a secondary character, he's just he's a one.
Speaker 2:He has like one line in that movie right, right, like you see him a couple times, like throughout the, the prequels, you know he'll talk, um, he has, like you know, some battle scenes and and revenge of the sith, but, yeah, like this is not. Like this is where I feel like you know some battle scenes and and revenge of the sith, but, yeah, like this is not. Like this is where I feel, like you know, you start grasping for straws. You know, like changing the age of somebody's not really not breaking the canon of anything, the story's not being significantly changed. Yeah, oh, because he was back there, he should have, or, since he was around back then, he should have known that the siths were around. But you saw, for the most part, that everything that was happening was pretty much being kept under wraps throughout the, throughout the series. You know they weren't going to the high council. It was like very just like the smaller group of Jedi that knew and, yeah, for the most part, all of them died Except for, yeah, vanessa Rowe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how they pick this story up, because clearly she's about to tell Yoda. You know, like that she messed up. You know she clearly is responsible for the deaths of all these Jedi that she sent out. She has to tell Yoda about that. Yoda would find out anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you mentioned that some of the accepted birth years for Ki-Adi-Mundi in Legends didn't work with one another. So in Legends, here's where the issue takes place. In Legends, the Phantom Menace begins in 33 bby and ends in 32 bby, versus canon, where it's just 32 bby. So 60 years before 33 bby takes you to 93 bby, which would be his accepted birth year within legends. Uh, because he was 60 years before the phantom menace began, supposedly. But later on, I think in like 2012, they had a, like a trading card of him that claimed he was 90. He was born in 92 bby. So it doesn't really jive. It's, it's, it's, it's all. It's a little bit all over the place, um. So, yeah, it was the. The issue with kiari's birth were pretty much only prevalent for people who were trying to look for and poke holes in something.
Speaker 2:Right right, and you know for the most part I know that we're talking about a lot of the gripes that people have of the show that you know really just don't fit well with. You know like you're grasping for straws at this point to find something that to hate. But you know you and I do agree that this is not a perfect show. You know there is a lot about the show to not like and that there are gripes that people have that are very valid. And one of the things I was talking to to one of my friends yesterday and his wife that doesn't really. She watches star wars but she's not really up on star wars but her biggest issue with it is the acting and the acting is definitely something that's not good.
Speaker 2:It's it varies uh actor to actor, right, right it varies actor to actor, actor to actor, like, uh, I feel like daphne keen that played jackie, like she was, she played that character very well, you know. But then you have amanda lestenberg. That it would kind of vary, like she would have her moments but then, like other moments, would be a little bit weaker. It wasn't. It wasn't all that consistent, you know yeah, yeah, I actually agree with that.
Speaker 1:Um, I did. At first I really liked her performance. The first couple episodes I didn't have an issue with it, but after a certain point I just felt that it kept feeling the same Like every situation she was in, whether she was playing one twin or the other twin. I felt like their characters started blending together. And you know, from like a meta perspective, yeah, these characters are technically the same because they're like split twins in the force.
Speaker 2:Right, right, like it's one person that was like the dark side was separated from light, but maybe in that kind of way.
Speaker 1:yeah, right, right but I I felt that, you know, there was subtleties in the way that she played both characters. The way that may anisea walked was different than osha, but the facial expressions I didn't really buy. A lot of the times it was sometimes so subtle that it didn't give off any emotion to the audience. I guess I don't think that I disliked her performance. It was just, of everyone, extremely weak. You know, who did a fantastic performance in my opinion was the twins' mother, mother Anisea, played by jody jody turner smith. Every scene that she was in she totally grabbed me in terms of, like you know, her facial disposition, the, uh, the extent in which she was able to, you know, capture emotion, um, but you know, speaking about, like those flashbacks. One thing that I don't understand about the show and this is a minor criticism I don't hate the show for this, obviously but yeah, it doesn't make much sense. Why would the adult twins be played by the same actor but the young twins would be played by two very different looking actresses?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I noticed that too, and it's funny. Before you actually said what your gripe was, that was like one of the thoughts in my mind and yeah, it's. Yeah, because I mean this is essentially, it's the same person. You know, it really is the same person, split into two. So there wouldn't need to be two separate actors.
Speaker 2:You know, for the young one, maybe they couldn't find a child actor that could embody two roles right, right and maybe these two seems that they that, like you know they, they were each side very well and and I feel like, for the most part, like they did, you know they did the what they were supposed to. You know, like they they weren't terrible as far as child actors, but yeah, there's just a lot of things that were a little like muddied, were just um, souls, like intentions for like wanting to take on the girls and yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So that's here's the thing, like, what's important to recognize is that, um, I don't think either of us hated the series, am I? Am I right in saying that, like you didn't?
Speaker 2:no, I I didn't know I did. I didn't hate the series like I. I don't. I don't think that it's the best that I've seen, but there were a lot of things about it that I liked and there was a lot of things that they brought that it brought into star wars. Uh, maybe my minor details that I thought were really cool, like the introduction of um well, it wasn't necessarily introduced, but it was the first time we've seen it on screen. Was Cortosis? Was it talked about in the books at all?
Speaker 1:In a couple, okay, but it wasn't anything that has really like broken into like the mainstream canon.
Speaker 2:Right, right. So anything that can face off between well with the lightsaber I really think is cool, because there was a lot in Legends that could actually combat against lightsabers, vibroblades being one of them. But since then, with the Disney canon, I mean, there's a couple things like Beskar can hold up, cortosis can the.
Speaker 1:Darksaber.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Darksaber. I think that in the Darth Maul book that there's this weapon that this Force cult is using, that can actually deflect lightsabers and stuff too. So there's been some stuff added since then.
Speaker 2:But I just thought that cortosis was really cool because while these other things can just deflect while all these other things could deflect, this one was like a little EMP and it like disrupted the blades Dude, I thought that was sick. I was like okay, and it like disrupted the blades dude, I thought that was sick, I was like okay. And the way that he used it, the way that chimera used it strategically to pretty much disable one jedi while he's fighting off another, to come back to this other jedi because they got their lightsabers back up, it was. It was really, really cool in the the usage of that and you know, and speaking of strong performances, like oh yeah, he uh, manager senso did such a good job, so he surprised me, like, like I said, I was so used to his goofy crazy.
Speaker 2:You know, he's like silly goofy character in the good place that. You know, I that's who I saw and he kind of had a little bit of that like silliness in the beginning when you, when we didn't realize who he was, but then when he swept, when he swapped dude, yeah he, like, switched his persona into sith mode.
Speaker 1:So good okay such such a good uh mic drop moment, like for for that character and for the show. I also felt that the actor for Soul was fantastic, Lee Jung Jae. He learned English to play this role and I think he did a fantastic job, Everything that I saw with him on screen.
Speaker 2:He really put his heart into that. I just find it insane, like why would he subject his his life from? You know he survived squid game. Just to like be a jedi.
Speaker 1:You know to like fight, yeah, yeah I know, but um so, like I was, I was. I was saying neither of us hate this show, uh, but we both have valid criticisms of it. I think the pacing was all over. Yes, yes I think the pacing was all over the place. The fact that you would get this. You would start to get the mystery rolling, and then you'd like cut away for a whole episode, just to show us a flashback.
Speaker 2:Dude right, why not?
Speaker 1:intercut flashbacks inside the episodes so that we can keep the story moving, Because twice in the show they totally disrupted the linear narrative of it and it didn't work.
Speaker 2:I know Right, they could have done a flashback like early Lost, you know, like you're still in the middle of the episode, but then they have like a minor moment.
Speaker 1:Yes, totally 100%, and I think that would have worked so much better, especially considering, you know, like in the last jedi, you have flashbacks to um luke and kylo ren and they both have different opinions of like what happened in that moment where, like uh, luke ignited his lightsaber in front of him right, it wasn't a whole like 30 minutes, like they didn't take up a whole chunk of the movie just to talk about exactly yes, you know they, they should have done that for this.
Speaker 1:Basically, what I'm trying to say is, like you know, you can have different opinions, which is what happened, you know, in the in the first flashback episode, it was um, very witch force, cult centric, where it was basically following the twins versus. You know, the the latter episode, which was following the the jedi if they just intercut that with some of the characters and inner monologues.
Speaker 2:Dude, that would have been so much better and the thing that kind of makes that a little bit disruptive is that this series is so limited. You know you only have eight episodes and you're trying to take pretty much about a quarter of the series in flashbacks, you know like yeah yeah dude, like you know.
Speaker 2:Now, if you had you know 12, 15, you know like the old school 20 20 episodes we're never gonna throw in like yeah, well yeah, we're never going back to that, especially with how expensive things are now, but I just think that, yeah, no, I I agree they, the, the flashbacks were necessary, but I just don't think that the entirety, like we didn't need to know. There was a lot that was put on screen as far as flashbacks that we really just didn't need to know. I mean, I know that they're trying to, they were trying to build up on on, like you know, the backgrounds of these characters, but we really needed more of the meat of what happened and then, like, maybe any supporting information for for what it is that happened.
Speaker 1:You know, and, yeah, like, no, I, I agree, like the pacing is was all over the place, uh, inconsistent acting and some of the character motivations like I just wasn't right, right right into, like the character of torben, the, the padawan that you know, 16 years later is, you know, taking the, the bearish vow, that padawan, his, his motivation just to go back home to coruscant and, like you know, potentially steal these two young ones. It didn't make any sense.
Speaker 2:Like I could. I can understand, like a young padawan wanting to go back to coruscant, you know like that is your home, yeah right, right or well.
Speaker 2:I mean he's kind of like stuck on some like backwater planet. You know that is probably really boring to him. So I understand, like his, his motivations. But like you know, I but it's the same thing with soul you know his motivations for wanting to take them. You know I understand that they they didn't quite understand what was going on with that coven and you know, maybe they were tapping into some, some stuff that was, you know, ethically crossing the line. But the fact that like he wanted to take them on because he felt he wanted to take them, yeah, he wanted to take them off because he felt it like, oh, they're destined to be my padawan and all stuff like attachments like that aren't really like something like a jedi, you know, I mean you do get some Jedi that kind of like tow the line a little bit like your boy in the books Elzar man, like that guy's a ladies man, you know.
Speaker 2:So you do have some Jedi that tow the line, but I don't think I was convinced with Sol's reasonings, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Okay, reasonings, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Okay, it was it was kind of like in the name of taking down this coven or in the name of, oh, because I feel like the force wants them to be, you know, wants me to train them, and that. That that's just I don't know like I just wasn't really convinced of that either I think there was a bunch of stuff that was half-baked.
Speaker 1:Yes, in terms of it needed a couple more rewrites just to get rationales down a little bit better. And yeah, so there are clear issues with the series, but most of the issues that I have could have easily been ironed out with a second season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything, everything, all the character motivations are what they are in this, in the first season, as they are right issues that people have going forward can definitely be addressed, which is why this feels so reactionary and it feels like they're pandering to. You know, the loudest fans uh, you know, in in the fandom well and it's frustrating.
Speaker 2:It'll probably be ironed out in some other way oh, it totally will. Yeah, I mean like a lot of the, a lot of some of the issues that the prequels had were some of it was ironed out with clone wars.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of the things that most of them, most of the issues and the prequels were ironed out in the Clone Wars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so.
Speaker 1:Clone Wars is so good because of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I feel like we'll probably get something like that, maybe in the form of a novel or graphic novel or I don't know something. They probably won't do any sort of visual TV show media surrounding it, but they'll probably try to iron it out in that kind of way. But you are correct, because of the timing it does, it's like very knee jerk reaction, yeah, and and in a way it kind of gives it kind of gives a voice to some people that are essentially like whiny babies.
Speaker 2:You know, look, I know that I'm taking a shot, but like the thing is you know, when you give a voice to whiny babies, you know it's they're going to continue.
Speaker 1:They're going to continue to whine. You know, like for the rest of time it's they're gonna continue.
Speaker 2:They're gonna continue to whine, you know, like for the rest of time, when, when you, when you said no to to that chocolate milk and then you give it to them anyway, that's just gonna like really continue that that type of behavior. Look, I understand that they had some gripes and you know they had some valid gripes and maybe they were reacting to things that they didn't fully understand or wanted to try to understand. But at the end of the day, if you, if you're making a youtube channel that's based on star wars and really diving into star wars, you might want to give it the the benefit of the doubt. Look, like you and I, we we understand that this show is not perfect, that there is things that that it definitely needs to, they definitely need to work out a lot of stuff, but at the end of the day, it's not the worst that we've seen. You know, it's like I would say like it's maybe like middle, middle the pack, like borderline, maybe going up a little bit yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's, let's let's compare it a little bit to some of the other shows we we have had the first. I would say that the first two seasons of the mandalorian are kind of peak star wars tv like yeah they. They captured something that had never been captured before, and it was great Season 3.
Speaker 2:It set a standard. Those first two it did. It set a bar.
Speaker 1:And then they had Book of Boba Fett, which is kind of a weird amalgam of ideas.
Speaker 2:They messed up. They messed up big time on that. It's such a strange way for that character to be taken well, it's a strange way and the thing is is that they they really didn't understand the identity of the show going into that, so that's a really good way to put it you know that, that they called it the book of boba fett, but then, like you had half the season that was centered on mandalorian, it became mandalorian 2.5, like season 2.5.
Speaker 2:Like you know, like you don't do that, like you really just messed up this man's like you know season. Because I really really like tamara morrison as boba fett. I like, I feel like he, I feel like he has the attitude it's just the writing that just messed him up and you could tell he enjoys playing this character Like Boba Fett. In what was he in? Season 1 or Season 2 of?
Speaker 1:I think they teased him at the end of Season 1, but he was in Season 2.
Speaker 2:Like he was like really awesome in that. You know Totally yeah.
Speaker 1:And so they really like messed it up, but yeah in that you know totally, yeah, and so they really like messed it up. But yeah, when it comes to book of boba fett I think it was it was just such a like a critical misfire of like the character and his intentions moving forward, like why would the greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy just give that up for the sake of wanting to basically become jobba the Hutt, but a good Jabba the Hutt, but still a crime lord, but a good crime lord, like what was the With some Power Rangers.
Speaker 1:What was the rationale behind that? I just don't understand. I find it so difficult to comprehend. Where do you take that story now that he's rode a rancor through Mos Espa? Where is this going like?
Speaker 2:and and what and what really like, and, and I think that what, what really like, and and, mind you like, like, all right, y'all, like you guys are like picking the acolyte apart, but like we have a show like this around where they bring in an amazing character from from clone wars and cad bane like cad bane is freaking crazy in clone wars, and then like they, they kind of like they put him into this like wacky show and like I mean he has a couple good moments and then, yeah, just kill him off I feel like that's not the last we'll see of him yeah, yeah, I don't think so it just, it seems anticlimactic enough for them to just kind of like I didn't actually die.
Speaker 1:You have also, um well, mandalorian season three was a mess. It was, it was all over the place. Um it, they were. It was clear that they were trying to pick up the pieces that they had written for the rangers of the new republic, the scrapped show that was supposed to air or was supposed to star gina carano. It was clear that they were trying to capture what was written for that and bring the mandalorian to like a new starting place, basically so that they can start their their uh run-up to the upcoming movie. Basically, that's, that's what it was.
Speaker 1:And with ahsoka, there's a lot I love about that show. There's a lot I love about that show, yeah, but there's some really wasted moments as well. Um, like, I don't think it looked that great, especially like during the fight scenes and all that. I feel like it could have been a lot better. But when it comes to remember when, like the, the witches, they decided that they were going to bring the stormtroopers back to life as like zombies, nothing happened, like it was. Just they were like they. They kind of blocked the door a little bit. Like it was. It was no threat to to them at all. It wasn't scary it was. It was bizarre, like it was a, I think I think it was.
Speaker 2:It was a non-thing. I think they realized in that moment that they weren't going to do that. Those zombies were probably not going to stop them, but they needed it just to hold off just long enough to finish what they were doing. I agree, but aside from that, yeah, we have shows like that, shows like Ahsoka. We have Obi-Wan, which, like I also like I know that you had. I know that there's issues with space and certain things that didn't make sense, but for the most part, like I, didn't hate Obi-Wan either make sense, but for the most part, like I didn't hate obi-wan either.
Speaker 1:Okay, where I stand with obi-wan is I think that it would have been a fantastic novel, but when it translated to screen you need a more competent director.
Speaker 1:Most of the issues that I have with the obi-wan series is the actual way that it's presented on screen. The story is fine, the story makes sense and I'm sure you know little things like um, you know, princess leia uh, runs away from bandits looks fine on a script, it looks fine on paper. But as soon as you visualize that and and show like how slow this, this little actress, is moving and how many times these bandits could have grabbed her up in that scene, you know that it ruins the suspension of disbelief. You know like it. Just, with a competent director you'd be able to figure that out, because on camera it didn't look like that. There's a bunch of like spatial awareness stuff in the in the obi-wan series that would have worked fine on paper but did not translate to screen and um, I have I have like serious issues with that, but I liked the story for the most part we, we may.
Speaker 2:There may be a little bit of an override as far as peak, but we have andor also andor.
Speaker 1:Andor is actually peak, like I. I will say that andor season one is better than any mandalorian uh has ever been well mandalorian was.
Speaker 2:You know, mandalorian is great and I love it, but it's definitely a lot of it's very fan service, you know it. It gives you that mandalorian, it gives you the boba fett that you wanted to see.
Speaker 1:You see, andor is like a political thriller From start to end.
Speaker 2:But I think the thing about Andor Is that people asked for something like Mandalorian. Nobody asked for Andor, nobody, nobody asked for Andor. There's people who like Cassian Andor and probably wanted to see more of him, but nobody asked for a whole tv show of cassie and or and nobody expected it to be the way that it did. You know like, no, no, it's, it's insane, it is insane. How good I'm like dude, like can we get more star wars tv like this? Like you know what's?
Speaker 1:interesting is that and or cost more money than the acolyte, got less viewers than the Acolyte and is getting a whole second season. I'm not saying that it doesn't deserve it, because obviously good series needs to be continued to its completion. That's fine.
Speaker 2:I'm happy about it.
Speaker 1:And it got award buzz, which is great for Disney+, because award buzz is very important for streaming services. So I understand that that gets a second season, but make it make sense, you know like right, right, yeah, no it's.
Speaker 2:I think that andor is. A lot of people went into the acolyte, you know, expecting it to be a one type of thing, but it wasn't. Everybody went to andor not really expecting, they didn't know what it was going to be. You know know, we had no idea, we had nothing to really size it up to, except for, like, who, like what we saw in Rogue One and the fact that what we got was insanely like, just amazing, just even made it even better, man. And so, yeah, like when you stack up stuff like first two seasons of A Mandalorian and Andor, it's definitely, it doesn't reach those heights at all.
Speaker 1:So here's how I stack everything. Let me know if you disagree or agree. I would place Andor season one, Mandalorian season two, Mandalorian season one, Then I would go Ahsoka season one. Uh, Mandalorian season two, Mandalorian season one. Then I would go Ahsoka season one, then Acolyte, then Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan Kenobi are kind of sharing a space at the bottom.
Speaker 2:Book of Boba Fett. Definitely at the bottom, but I feel like Acolyte shares a space with uh Obi-Wan.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, that's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fair a space with, uh, obi-wan. Okay, all right, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. And I mean maybe and and I would say for the sake of I mean because there is a lot of like nostalgia and stuff behind obi-wan and I feel like, and I feel like ewan mcgregor has had a solid as far as lead. His performance is a lot more solid than amandala's, so that might.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you would actually edge it a little higher a little bit higher.
Speaker 2:I understand what your gripes were but, like, like we said, like the acolyte, there was a lot to like about it. We, we didn't hate it, but there was, it could have been. It definitely could have been better. The the gripe, a lot of the gripes that some of these other people are having. Like I said, they're grasping for straws, but they they could have, I don't know, like the writing, like you said, the the intentions for some of these individuals, like there were some issues with the story. There's some disruption with the continuity of it. I don't really think that obi-wan had issues with with continuity, like you know, kind of exactly where he was going, like they, they kind of spelled it out a little bit, um, it was just, yeah, the way that that it was presented was weird, you know. Yeah, so that that's where that's why I say that like acolyte, you know acolyte is a little bit below.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just a little bit, but yeah, it's definitely like clear above I think that like book of boba fett. Like is like way down there it.
Speaker 1:It makes me sad because oh, oh and and mando season three. Mando season three is also around. Book of boba fett, obi-wan kenobi. Acolyte, it's, it's not, I think it's below acolyte. Uh, mando season three.
Speaker 2:It was just such a letdown for me but I will say, and let me know if you agree with me okay, I will let you know acolyte is better than X-Men Origins Wolverine. I had to put it out there.
Speaker 1:I think we can all agree that Acolyte is better than. X-men Origins Wolverine, if you want to check out our discussion of X-Men Origins Wolverine. That was a fun one.
Speaker 2:It was a couple months back at this point you know I had to bring it in there because we're in the midst of that x-men, we're in the midst of the x-men series. This acolyte episode really is to help kind of throw a little bit of a break in for that for us to, for honestly, it helps us with our discussion because it gives us something different to discuss.
Speaker 2:But also, we also want to give you a little bit more time to be able to catch, uh, deadpool wolverine, maybe for the first time, or even a second time, and yeah, so so we're, we're covering that next week guys yes, yes week um anthony.
Speaker 1:Any final thoughts on acolyte?
Speaker 2:acolyte it was. I'll be honest with you, like going through it a second time. It was a little tougher for me.
Speaker 1:Cause I knew yeah, it was it, it?
Speaker 2:it wasn't that I don't know. Like it's just like maybe I was still fresh off of seeing it from before that I just didn't feel like I needed to watch it again, but like I still wanted to watch it, just in, you know, just for the sake of the episode. But I may not revisit the series again that's fair, I may not revisit again.
Speaker 2:I may go back to specific episodes, like ones that I like, like, but as a whole I probably won't come back to it again. You know like, are you going to go back to book of boba fett?
Speaker 1:I probably will, just for completionist sake, if I ever do like a rewatch of these shows. But yeah, no, I understand what you're saying, yeah. I, I, I totally get that feeling.
Speaker 2:But yeah.
Speaker 1:I probably will go back to his X-Men origins. Well, I mean.
Speaker 2:I think you are right. Like for, for, like the X-Men.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do, I have to, I have to go was it?
Speaker 2:I know you're gonna have a great time with that one, but yeah, like, like I said, you know it's if you've heard all of this stuff about it and haven't watched it yet, if you've listened to our whole episode and hadn't watched it yet, and honestly, we didn't really like touch too much on, like heavy, like major spoilers on this one, I think yeah, we didn't.
Speaker 2:I think that this one was more of like a discussion of the show and the really what's orbiting around it. But yeah, like it's not the worst show that you're gonna watch, but like it's definitely at least worth worth watching at least once to see what at least at least to make up your own opinion on it right, because I there I've I've met people who hate the show but haven't watched an episode and you only get that.
Speaker 1:You only get that opinion if you're listening to other people who actively hate it right trying to get you to not watch the show, which is the entire reason the show isn't getting a second season, because people didn't let other people make up their own minds on it, right?
Speaker 2:So anyway, Right and honestly, at the end of the day, if this show, if you resonated with the show and you thought that this show was the best thing since sliced bread, you know what Look, that's great for you. You know like, don't let anything, dakota and I say, or anybody else say, take that away from you, because there are people who genuinely love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people who genuinely hate it.
Speaker 2:There's probably people who genuinely genuine there's probably people who genuinely love uh like book of Boba Fett or I know people who love it, yeah, or even X-Men origins Wolverine. You know like there's probably people who genuinely love that too. All right, you've gone too far, anthony. You've gone too far, but yeah, at the end of the day, if you enjoyed it, if you loved it, don't let anything us or the Phantom Menace or anybody say to take that away from you because you liked it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So as far as am I upset about the cancellation of the show?
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:I am. I would have liked to see where they went with the story. I think the actual Sith narrative that they have going on is fascinating because it eventually goes into the Phantom Menace. I want to see more of that Now. Osha, they all kind of dive into that Sith lineage and we will in books or comics, or maybe even a movie, who knows? So, guys, thank you so much for listening to us here for our 92nd episode Next week. We're covering Deadpool and Wolverine. Maybe you've heard of it, the Wolverine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're going to make a name for ourselves next week you know how long I've been waiting for this, oh man, anyway, thanks so much, guys. If you want to check out any of our socials, be sure to click uh down in our show notes. Below You'll find links to Twitter, instagram, youtube, you name it. And yeah, check out that video that I made where I kind of break down 20 different supposedly canon-breaking moments in the Acolyte which don't actually break canon. I think it's a fun watch, especially if you have a little bit of a sense of humor. But yeah, if you want to give us a rating, review us here.
Speaker 2:Please be sure to give us a juicy five five star review yeah, yeah, we we don't, we don't like dry five no it's gotta be juicy, yeah, yeah, you know like gotta be juicy. You know juicy enough to to make guy fieri proud of course, guys.
Speaker 1:Uh, see you in the next one. Have a good one bye.
